Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

gtadmin said:
I ordered some 5800mah8s lipo last night to go into it and we'll see how it goes. Not quite sure how to charge it (8s is 29.6v nom and 32.8v @ 4.1v - hoi Hyena) and balance it yet
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Yeah about 33v. You going to run 8S2P ? I'd parallel the discharge leads and balance taps. The cheapest way out is grabbing one of THESE or similar + a beefy power supply to run it. Or you could use a modified meanwell PSU if you want a faster charger + a cheap battery medic on the off chance it needs the occasional balancing. Keep in mind cheap RC chargers have a tendency to blow up ( I gave up after killing 3 charging ebike packs) and connecting the balance taps all the time when they dont need balancing is fiddly. I gave up on them and went to meanwells and havent looked back. I read on the forums you can get the meanwell chargers pre modded locally HERE and apparently the guy is pretty awesome :p

Alternatively if you have more to spend these ichargers are supposed to be pretty good (I've never used one) but you still need a big power supply to run them off and after getting that + shipping from china you're looking at over $200.

BTW, I assume the 'case' on your aprilia is plastic ? Is it actually dual suspension or is than swing arm just designed to look that way ? It looks like it hasn't got clearance to move without hitting the frame
 
gtadmin said:
Yes, they have stopped making them. But, what else was available at the time as a turn-key? I did look at the epac and the elation, but in comparison, they look amateurish, and they wanted almost the same coin. Oh, and Brett White's hubs.
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John_in+crs_bike.jpg

Hrmz...Not real sure i would be taking Johnny boys opinion too serious when it comes to bike style and design
to top it off anything with a non frock motor confuses the poor chap :D

Nothing wrong with your choice of bike gtadmin it looks fine to me mate
i would happily ride it if i was capable. Good buy IMHO.


KiM
 
Hyena said:
gtadmin said:
I ordered some 5800mah8s lipo last night to go into it and we'll see how it goes. Not quite sure how to charge it (8s is 29.6v nom and 32.8v @ 4.1v - hoi Hyena) and balance it yet
Click to expand...
Yeah about 33v. You going to run 8S2P ? I'd parallel the discharge leads and balance taps. .... I read on the forums you can get the meanwell chargers pre modded locally HERE and apparently the guy is pretty awesome :p
...
BTW, I assume the 'case' on your aprilia is plastic ? Is it actually dual suspension or is than swing arm just designed to look that way ? It looks like it hasn't got clearance to move without hitting the frame
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Hi Hyena, yep 8S2P .. yep, parallel discharge leads ... the guy is pretty awesome ... I heard that somewhere, just can't place where though :?: .... Battery case is plastic (ABS) but I think I'll keep the original as it is (stored) and make a fibreglass one in the same shape to house the lipo, be plenty of room. No rear suspension, but you can remove the chain without breaking it. Build quality is very good (except for the Italian electrics, YKWIM), but what else would you expect from a manufacturer who makes proper motorbikes for a living?
AussieJester said:
Hrmz...Not real sure i would be taking Johnny boys opinion too serious when it comes to bike style and design
to top it off anything with a non frock motor confuses the poor chap

Nothing wrong with your choice of bike gtadmin it looks fine to me mate
i would happily ride it if i was capable. Good buy IMHO.


KiM
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Hi AJ, wasn't, not too many bikes (2w) on here that I've seen can compete against the Aprilia on quality or looks, with a few notable exceptions - most from WA funnily enough! But I really didn't want to say that out loud.

Cheers guys,
GT
 
GT,
Sorry, I didn't realize someone had one.


AJ,
At least I don't take 6-7 months to build an e-bike only to have it break down every time I use it. I'd much rather have an ugly bike that works instead of a bike that's just for show and not for go. :twisted:
 
John in CR said:
At least I don't take 6-7 months to build an e-bike only to have it break down every time I use it. I'd much rather have an ugly bike that works instead of a bike that's just for show and not for go. :twisted:
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And by 'break down' you mean a broken belt that was already damaged, what real catastrophe that is J.J... :roll: How that equates to "everytimeI use it" only your wonderful imagination knows...If i had the foresight to order a spare belt it would been running again in less than 5 minutes. You seem to forget the bike performed for several weeks immediately after construction finished before i took it apart for powdwercoat and chrome. The length of time it took to build was totally due to my financial situation, some of us aren't wealthy like you pal. Given parts and $$$ i could knock one of these out in 3-4 weeks easily....still yet to see this u-beaut ride of yours turn a wheel been 2 months since you started it and its two wheels and 1/4 of a frame propped up by a box and alot of talk of how great it will be... :lol:

KiM
 
Ok, back to the topic. One issue with pedal-first systems with no throttle control is the amount of force required to trigger the assist. That is, one has to be pedalling fairly hard before the assistance cuts in with a bang, and if you reduce your effort, the assistance ceases, causing the muscles in your legs to be loaded, unloaded, loaded ... in quick succession. This typically occurs going up hills. Better to have the situation where the rider must be pedalling but have the ability to turn the assistance on (or off) under manual control, not what the controller thinks! And I know this by actually riding with both control systems for over 1200km.

And I would really like another 5kph allowed!

Cheers,
GT
 
Also, since participating in this topic, I have searched for other aprilia forums and found that most people suffered the same symptoms as I experienced with the battery - it seems NiMH aint worth shit as an ebike battery (and a replacement is well over $600!). So come on HK lipo, and we'll get a comparison. BTW, where do you get a 8S battery medic / balancer from? I can't seem to find one.

Cheers,
GT
 
gtadmin said:
Ok, back to the topic. One issue with pedal-first systems with no throttle control is the amount of force required to trigger the assist. That is, one has to be pedalling fairly hard before the assistance cuts in with a bang, and if you reduce your effort, the assistance ceases, causing the muscles in your legs to be loaded, unloaded, loaded ... in quick succession. This typically occurs going up hills. Better to have the situation where the rider must be pedalling but have the ability to turn the assistance on (or off) under manual control, not what the controller thinks! And I know this by actually riding with both control systems for over 1200km.
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I may be mistaken - or hopeful - but somewhere I got the impression that the European standards (on which I believe the proposed Australian ones are based) allow throttle control in conjunction with PAS? That is, 6km/h is the limit for throttle only control, but beyond that speed you can regulate the assistance with a throttle provided that you are also pedalling - ?

gtadmin said:
And I would really like another 5kph allowed!
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I agree. On balance, the proposed changes are an improvement I guess, but 25km/h assistance limit really does seem ridiculous. The RTA discussion paper talks about the benefits of bikes keeping up with traffic to reduce the incidence of rear-ending by cars (reported as the most common accident mode) and Canadians reporting no perceived benefit of power assistance if limited to speeds like 25km/h, then goes on to recommend a 25km/h limit on the basis that it's a typical commuting speed.....in Europe perhaps, but not around here it isn't (well not yet anyway). 30-35km/h would be much more sensible. But having said that, I don't believe there should be a speed limit on any bikes - assisted or not - except for road limits and perhaps on shared paths in the vicinity of pedestrians.
 
gtadmin said:
Also, since participating in this topic, I have searched for other aprilia forums and found that most people suffered the same symptoms as I experienced with the battery - it seems NiMH aint worth shit as an ebike battery (and a replacement is well over $600!). So come on HK lipo, and we'll get a comparison. BTW, where do you get a 8S battery medic / balancer from? I can't seem to find one.

Cheers,
GT
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Wasn't aware of a 8s battery medic there is a Cellog that does 8s IIRC but not the battery Medic? I have one myself. If you get a Battery Medic grab one of GGoodrums battery medic boodter mods or you will be waiting literally days to balance multiple packs matey.
 
gtadmin said:
Yes, they have stopped making them. But, what else was available at the time as a turn-key? I did look at the epac and the elation, but in comparison, they look amateurish, and they wanted almost the same coin. Oh, and Brett White's hubs.
Click to expand...

Will be interesting to see what impact the proposed European influenced ebike changes in Oz will have on the market for chain-drive units. Elations are marketed on their hill climbing and top speed abilities. The proposed laws would remove the top speed advantage. The hill climbing benefit may be reduced compared to a hub motor with reasonable short-term peak power (except for extended hill climbing). Are chain drives popular in Europe?
 
Hi Marshy, yep there are inconsistencies in their thinking, but have you ever heard of beaurocrats(? where's the spell check) and common sense being used in the same sentence?
marshy said:
European standards (on which I believe the proposed Australian ones are based) allow throttle control in conjunction with PAS
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My understanding of the european standards is that no throttle control is allowed, but I'm not certain of this. I really think the yanks have got it right with their standards, but don't say it too loud or we'll get FIGJAM from them :D
AussieJester said:
Cellog that does 8s IIRC
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Hi AJ, thanks mate - HobbyKing I take it? And what does IIRC mean - I've seen it a lot but don't recognise it?

marshy said:
Are chain drives popular in Europe?
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Guess so, the aprilia is.

Jeez, you guys are quick with your replies (or I'm a very slow typist)

OK, but I think we could expand this topic to 100 pages and it will have NO effect on what's coming. We shall see!

Cheers guys,
GT
 
I caught up (at the traffic lights) with a 'petrol-assist' bike this morning. It was similar to this one - http://www.screamingemu.com.au/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=49 .

Way, way quicker that my 200W Elation. I find it hard to believe it's anywhere near 200W! The rider didn't need to pedal at all and was up around 50kph.

Not that I'm knocking the rider. He had too far for an electric to easily go (about 60k round trip), and at least it's one less car. Our brief conversation included serveral references to 'pubs', so I suspect he may have lost his licence.

I thought about getting one of these before I bought the Elation. I'm glad I didn't as I wouldn't get any exercise!

:)
 
atleast theres no mention of the stupid throttle rule. I wonder what the other states are doing ? Still the same as it always was I suppose
 
25km limit is just dumb, I'm not the best cyclist out there but I can do 25km on my dual suspension MTB, and easily break 35km on a roady.

As for 200W limit, I've never riden a 200W before, but 500W is a lot more reasonable! Fastest I got (before running out of gears) was 55km per hour, and there are plenty of road cyclists that could do that speed (down a hill)

I've got a 650W motor and according to my cycle analyst 200W is when I'm cruising at 25km/h, on acceleration I'm drawing upto 1kw, and about 500W up hils.
 
Longer we fly under the radar the better
the less said about it the better then the average
cop wont be made aware of the 200watt rule, from what i have
read about the interwbez most aussie cops are
not even aware of the 200watt legal motor size and/or
dont seem to care? Maybe they just think like us, the 200watt
law is absurd so common sense prevails...ride within the road
rules and don't get busted doing 60mph down the street
and you should be left alone.

KiM
 
I would have to totally agree with AJ's above post.
Stealth seems to be the better option at this stage.
Most of us are talking about 1 to 6 kw on our custom ebikes.
The lastest holdens seem to have a 307 kw tag on the back and motorbikes have been able to do at least 290 kph for ages now.
We're getting picked on.

I haven't bought any petrol for 3 years now, but I get to work everyday at about 56kph with no noise or emmisions, and follow all the road rules ....... never had a problem with the cops.
 
I'm in the US, in a state w/ a 1kw limit and I still don't think that's enough. 2HP is 1.49kw...so a 1.5kw limit makes more sense to me. Tons of people add 2HP weed whacker sized motors to their bikes and they aren't hassled much...and like everyone else said, 20mph is too low...I think it should be whatever the posted limit is or 30/45mph...kids/adults...

It would make sense to have a 500w limit for kids under 16, so they can keep up with their parents to some degree but so they don't get crazy. Cargo and tandem bikes could have a 3HP limit. Personally I think we should have decent limits so fewer people feel the need to go past that. The other road laws provide a means for punishing bad drivers anyway.

As far as where the power is measured, I'm not sure. From where I sit it reads as though the power going into the motor is what matters where I am...not the wheel or the shaft, the peak instantaneous power going in. Feds say 750w but it reads basically the same as the local law, iirc.

I think this means they'd need to figure out what the controller can put out as a peak when they pull you over. I don't know that I'm required to let a cop inspect my bike tho either..they can't search my car w/o probable cause, so if I'm not speeding then screw it...I think I'll say a lot of nadda and "no".

Someone needs to get people like Ed Begley or Jay Leno on the ebike bandwagon. I'm sure either one could effectively communicate the need for more than 200w. I think a guy like Jay Leno would appreciate 2HP and see how that makes sense for bikes...it's not a real motorcycle yet, but still pretty functional. my 2¢

edit; I could see Leno making a dig at you guys for the 200w limit. Around here, that would be all it would take probably...if someone like Leno makes your whole country look like a bunch of sissies (no offense!..I said "look like"..take it in context) then it might change quicker.
 
Any word on whether the 250w law is likely to go through? I for one would rrather it didn't - I'm currentlu building a faired velo and a power assist motor for interstate cruising. A 25kph limit puts a heck of a damper on using power assist for a 'bike' (trike, really) with a rollcage that can do 100 on not-too-fit leg power...
 
madact said:
Any word on whether the 250w law is likely to go through?.
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Definitely hasn't happened yet and the meeting to discuss it was months ago. All Australian
states are still covered with the same 200watt maximum motor. I'm sure
we can rustle up some '200 watt' stickers for you if need be Cyclone Taiwan
has them some members have gotten their hands on them when ordering
larger motors....Either way i really wouldn't lose sleep over it the police as yet have no way of testing
motors on the side of the road and thus have little choice but to accept the "official" sticker
on the motor hehe... :D I would say there is probably a ratio of 10:1 ie. 10 ilegal
bikes for every 200watt on the road here in OZ now if this forum is any indication LoL

You say your building a velo AND a motor! excellent! I'm sure you will have some interest there have you begun construction
or is it still in the planing stage? There is a DIY motor competition currently running on ES might want to check the
outlines there see if yours qualifies? Either way you will get help if needed some damn clever fellas on this forum.

Welcome to Endless Sphere also.

KiM
 
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