Build advice, hill-climbing commuter

CDRE_LXIV

1 µW
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
3
Hi,
I've been riding an e-bike for several years, namely my faithful Easy Motion Neo Volt. I bought it when I lived in Sydney (Australia), which was flatter, had better bike paths, and had better-maintained roads that Brisbane, where I live now. The bike has zero suspension, and is made to fold up. It has actually had attached parts damaged with shocks encountered when riding local roads (my front light snapped off when dropping off a gutter the other day, and plastic elements of the frame are breaking free due to snapped plastics). I want to build a bike adapted to local conditions. I am technically competent, and have tools.

My priorities are:
- Torque sensing pedal assist. Not negotiable - it's what I'm used to, and I have test-ridden bikes with throttles, and hated it. I want the best torque sensing available, I imagine it will be coupled to a CA3. I'm happy to pedal to control speed. A thumb throttle for auxiliary control (perhaps in the event of a chain breakage) is fine, but an optional extra.
- Gearing. This is for commuting, and I want to be able to pedal home if I run out of juice. So let's say a 7-speed cassette or freewheel is mandatory. Internal gearing can be considered, but it sounds troublesome to me.
- Suspension, front and back. Doesn't need to be downhill mountain biking-grade, but I want to be able to go up and down kerbs with no issues, and hit surprise potholes at night without crapping myself.
- Range. 100km, even if I use high levels of assist and have to do some hills every day. I'm sick of having to drop back my assist to ensure I have juice for the hill-climb home when I've only done 40km that day.
- Rider weight is 70kg.
- Hydraulic disc brakes, with lever sensors to connect to the CA3. Not sure if I care about regen, seems like a hassle for ~5% range boost at best.
- TORQUE. Australia has a 250W limit on motor power and a 25km/hr limit. I will ignore both the motor limit and top speed (more on that shortly), but I'm actually OK with a top speed of no more than 40km/hr (call it 25mph), and will limit the speed in CA3. But I would like to be able to go up long 10-15% grade hills without slowing down. I feel that torque is more important to me than top speed.
- DISCRETION. I think that the Australian e-bike speed limit is too low (I get overtaken by road bikes all the time when I'm doing 30km/h), and the power limit makes no sense at all. That said, I don't want to force the police to take notice of me for having a direct drive motor the size of a kid's birthday cake. If I can get the results I want from something that looks harmless, that's great. But, if discretion can't be managed, I'll whack a direct drive monstrosity on there and take my chances. Results first.
- Budget. Don't care much, call it $5000. I'd rather build something with capabilities that I under-utilise than something I'm unsatisfied with and spend more to upgrade later.

I had some initial preferences:
- Frame, Stealth FUTR Beta. Made locally, which tickles me, and it seems well-regarded.
- Wheel size, not sure. Was going to go 26". I hope that will be a good compromise between torque, and handling bad roads.
- Motor, some sort of rear hub motor, but I'm open to advice. I wanted to use a Crystalyte TC3065, but that's hardly discrete, and might be overkill for someone who just wants to be able to maintain 35-40km/h up a paved 10-15% gradient.
- Cycle Analyst 3.
- Controller, perhaps Phaserunner, but I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks to anyone who reads this wall of text and has advice for me :)
 
That will cost a bit but its not outrageous.

https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/torque-sensors.html
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/cycle-analysts.html

CDRE_LXIV said:
I want the best torque sensing available, I imagine it will be coupled to a CA3. I'm happy to pedal to control speed. A thumb throttle for auxiliary control (perhaps in the event of a chain breakage) is fine, but an optional extra.
 
That will cost a bit but its not outrageous.

https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/torque-sensors.html
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/cycle-analysts.html

CDRE_LXIV said:
I want the best torque sensing available, I imagine it will be coupled to a CA3. I'm happy to pedal to control speed. A thumb throttle for auxiliary control (perhaps in the event of a chain breakage) is fine, but an optional extra.


In terms of Wh/km consumption, a wh being Volts x Ah = Wh Plan for 8 or 10Wh/km because of the hills and your assist.
Its good to have plenty of juice left over, and better for shallower discharges too.

You can play with this
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/trip-simulator.html?m=M3006&v=mountain&ms=100&h=100&w=26&sp=50&wv=0&b=B3623_GA&c=C40&rg=false&t=21&ct=21&st=21&i=map&s=st&p=&x=&y=&lx=&rx=&rw=

Go to Tools then Trip Simulator Beta
Go to left and the bottom, and click the pull down menu for: Input Type Google Maps
Zoom out all the way with the "-" button to earth view, then move to Australia
Left click on Australia, moving the mouse to your area of Aus land.
Right click your starting point.
Right click your end point.
Then you can move the routing line to your route.
Choose a NineCont 3006 motor rear and say a 35A or 40A controller.
Pedal is Hmn Pwr so say 100-150W

See what your total Ah is that you use. I'd say pick 48V for your battery, any Ah.





- Range. 100km, even if I use high levels of assist and have to do some hills every day. I'm sick of having to drop back my assist to ensure I have juice for the hill-climb home when I've only done 40km that day.
 
Calculate the power required to go up a 15% grade at 40 kmh. It is quite a lot. About 2200 watts load (equals output power, from the simulator). Compensating for efficiency at least 2500W and perhaps 3000W will be required. Just to set the stage for the discussion. The ebike in the little icon to the right can do this. The average ebike.. just cannot.
 
Thanks for the replies. I've been playing with the simulator, I'll see what I can come up with!
 
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