Charger for LIFEPO4 & LIPO?

[geeeyejo1]

I am anticipating the cheap plastic 3A charger that came with my 48V15AH LIFEPO4 pack will not last long. Since I am considering LIPO for my next build I was hoping to source a charger that could charge my current 48V15AH LIFEPO4 pack as well as perhaps a 12S or 15S LIPO pack. In looking at the chargers on the Hobbyking site it appears the maximum capability is only 10S for LIFE batteries. Is there a charger that is up to charging both types of batteries?
If not, was looking at this one for my LIFEPO4 pack:
http://www.batteryspace.com/smartcharger6afor512v16cellslifepo4batterypack110vonlystandardfemaletamiyaplug.aspx
Seems like a good unit - any other suggestions?
Thanks!

 

[dnmun]

when it breaks i will send you the ICL to fix it. then it will last forever.

 

[geeeyejo1]

Thanks dnmun - what exactly is an ICL?

 

[Rodney64]

BC168, charger. Give it a go you'll also need a power supply for it.

Used one the other day to ballance my pack. The good thing about them is that they will charge at 8 amps each cell individually.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BC168-RC-Model-Super-Speed-Li-ion-Li-Polymer-Li-Fe-Hobby-Balance-Charger-BC016-/221168898647?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles&hash=item337eb19257

 

[geeeyejo1]

BC168, charger. Give it a go you'll also need a power supply for it.

Used one the other day to ballance my pack. The good thing about them is that they will charge at 8 amps each cell individually.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BC168-RC-Model-Super-Speed-Li-ion-Li-Polymer-Li-Fe-Hobby-Balance-Charger-BC016-/221168898647?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles&hash=item337eb19257

Good for LIPO but can it charge a LIFEPO4 48v pack?

 

[Rodney64]

I'm not sure. I'd say not

 

[dnmun]

an ICL is an inrush current limiter that these little switch mode power supplies have on the input AC. it blocks the inrush current from being so large that it blows the fuse or flows too much current on instantaneous start when it is plugged in. the way the power supply is built looks like a short to the AC so it would otherwise damage the charger.

the ones used in a lot of the small power supplies are too small for the size (current) and they overheat and burn up fairly soon. some last a long time some a short time. the ones that i sell will last a long time because they are bigger than the ones that come with the charger and don't burn up.

it is not that the chinese ICLs are cheap, it is just the marginal reliability of parts supplied in enormous bulk at the lowest cost so they are manufactured with lower quality control which increases the probability of failure. it's all statistics.

 

[wesnewell]

You can use the charger that came with the motor kit to charge your lifepo4 pack I'm pretty sure. But it's only 2-2.5A.

 

[dogman dan]

One option would be to open up your lifepo4 pack, cut the connections between each 8s section, and have a split pack with a plug between each 8s section. Then less expensive 8s RC chargers could charge and balance each section.

When using it, you'd plug the bms back into the 8s balance plugs you added to each 8s section, and still retain cell level lvc, and the other functions.

Or, simpler to do, adding one wire you can plug into between the two 8s sections would allow non balancing charging at 8s with an RC charger, one section at a time.

It will be a bit complicated to do the full splitting of the pack, and the gain would be saving a very small amount of money, vs just buying another inexpensive 48v lifepo4 charger as a spare. As the ICL's die on them, solder in new ones to keep em running. The only point of the spare is to have something around that can work for a time, while you fix your favorite one.

Options include buying a faster 5 amp lifepo4 charger if you want to charge faster, or even an under 20 bucks 2 amp lead acid charger. The sla charger would be used temporarily, not primary. It would work ok for a week or so, till you get your lithium charger up and running again.

Lastly, it's a matter of luck on those charger parts. You might get lucky and have one that lasts forever.

But having a spare charger for any ev is smart. It can be nice to leave one at work for example, to avoid carrying one around all the time. Or you can have a charger that does get carried, while your favorite one stays at home.

 

[dogman dan]

Re that batteryspace charger, that should work fine for your 48v lifepo4. That's the general type of faster charger I was talking about, but don't go any higher amps than that. In fact, you might be better off to stick to 5 amps. Some bms's, the ones I have at least, have a 5 amp limit.

It could work as a bulk charger, non balancing, for a lipo pack. You'd look at the actual maximum voltage it puts out, and decide how many lipo cells it could charge without exceeding 4.1v per cell. For example, if it really puts out 53v actual max voltage, it would charge a 13s pack ok.

But I don't personally recomend bulk charging without adding additional battery safety. I'm just one of those weenies that insists on hanlding RC lipo (Lico chemistry) very carefully, and prefer to trust a typical RC charger more for my lipo charging. But you can bulk charge safer with Methods lipo boards.

To clarify, I do bulk charge myself all the time, I just do it with RC chargers, using thier non balancing charge settings. Perhaps safer, because I charge smaller sections of battery at a time, vs plugging in the entire pack at once. If nothing else, an event will flame off less than the entire pack.

 

[dnmun]

if you separate a 16S pack into two 8S sections there is no way to charge it using the BMS. when you reconnect them in series and put the 16S BMS back on, then the loose connection between the two sections will cause the BMS to burn up when the connection jiggles open under load or even just partially loose it will kill the BMS.

 

[999zip999]

What brand battery pack did you buy ? is it working well ? If so leave it alone and don't start cutting it up for a look se. Just use it as plug and play. More you play with it the more chance of shorting something out and that's when you will say i wish I didn't do that.
Just buy a RC charger later for lipo like Hyperion 1420 (14s) or the 168 (8s) as for your needs.
Again what batttery is it ? And what is it's charge limit thru the bms ?

 

[geeeyejo1]

What brand battery pack did you buy ? is it working well ? If so leave it alone and don't start cutting it up for a look se. Just use it as plug and play. More you play with it the more chance of shorting something out and that's when you will say i wish I didn't do that.
Just buy a RC charger later for lipo like Hyperion 1420 (14s) or the 168 (8s) as for your needs.
Again what batttery is it ? And what is it's charge limit thru the bms ?

It's a Sunthing 48V15AH pack - so far so good on performance - I agree 100% and not going to look for problems by opening her up. Took her for longest ride yet today - 15 miles in -1DegC temperature - used 9.3AH of capacity and performed great over mixed terrain and some hills - kept her between mostly 10A with peaks of about 20A and likely averaged about 12A during the ride did some light pedaling at end of run was able to hit 30mph on slight downhill grade with pedaling.

 

[dogman dan]

Good point about potential damage to the bms if a plug jiggled loose. It would be sure to happen sooner or later, if you are plugging and unplugging every cycle.

I still think a second spare charger for the sunthing battery is a good idea. Have one for the at work charge and another for home.