Charging arrangement

shorza

shorza

10 kW
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Messages
502
Location
Melbourne, Australia
I am considering buying 6x 6s 5000mha for 66v 10ah, can someone offer some advice on to what else i may need in terms of a charger/balancer and wire harness.
Am I able to charge 2x 3 (or 3x 2) parallel/series?

I don't want to spend a heap. and don't mind waiting a few hours for the packs to charge.

I have CA, so don't need a BMS or LVC warning buzzer.
 
I'm considering the same setup. I also have a CA but a LVC buzzer might still be a good idea, with 1 bad cell you won't notice on the CA since you are measuring total pack voltage. I'm going to get 3x cheap hobbyking buzzer and have the pack in permanent 18s2p. Then you can get 3 cheap 6s chargers and charge the pack 3 times so to say or get a higher wattage 12s unit to cut down charge times.
 
Either three chargers, or you can reconfigure the pack to paralell the whole thing for charging. Or go the bulk charge route with the stuff from TP packs.

Personally, I take my 20s 10 ah setup and make it into two 5s paralelled blocks and charge with two chargers. I bought a 350 watt meanwell, and run two 150 watt chargers from it.

Pain in the ass for daily charging, but I don't use the lipo daily. More of a weekend riding thing for me. I run pingbatteries on my commuters stuff.
 
shorza said:
So the best bet it's to rewire the packs to parallel and charge them that way?
Click to expand...

As with many things Lipo "best" is a matter of degree and I believe Dogman mentioned parallel charging is a royal PITA. Sooner or later you will screw-up daily series/parallel connections and become another poster child for KFF. (kentucky fried fingers)

For daily commuting the "best" method for me is series charging using a Meanwell power supply and current limiter board. However, I only do this with known balanced cells in good condition. I'm always checking cell/pack voltages so I know if any cell's too low before firing things off and never leave bulk charging unattended.

But, it charges so damn fast in this configuration that it's hardly like watching paint dry. I'm not hovering over it the entire time, of course - just watching over things, measuring pack and cell voltages every once in a while to makes sure everything's operating in a happy place.

Now, I still use parallel balance charging equipment too because 'need that when balancing becomes neccessary and/or troubleshooting bricks. So it's not like you're wasting money on an RC charger - but you won't need a large one.

You'll also want to use parallel balancing in the beginning because it will take practice to better understand the condition of your cells. But if you need to charge daily, eventually you'll want to go with a high power series charger.
 
Would 14s ( 52v ) be enough for you use?

If so the hyperion 14s charger can do a 14s string altogether. It will eliminate a lot of hassle for you.

OR you can bulk charge the 18s regularly, and do a balance charge by breaking apart the serial connections each time you want to balance.

As long as you keep 10-20% at the bottom of the pack and you don't have a dead cell somewhere, you really don't need to balance very often anyhow.
 
Neptronics, no I am hoping for a 18s setup.

So it seem fairly easy;
I'll have to disconnect all the packs from my setup, and bulk charge the 6 packs by using the charge and balance leads like the ones that newb has posted.
http://www.progressiverc.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=126&category_id=14&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1
http://www.progressiverc.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=50&category_id=14&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1
I'll probably get these leads from HK when I buy my battery packs and charger.

Then balance the packs individually every few charges.

Can anyone recommend a charger that will do this?
 
I have a 18s 2p setup and use these parallel connections. However, I have made the 6 packs into 3 seperate 6s 2p packs which makes it a lot less to deal with. What i did was buy lots of 4mm bullets and some 12ga wire from HK to make 3 seperate 2p parallel power wires to make them 6s 2p and also made a 3p parallel power wire for charging. Then bought 3 2p & 1 6p balance wires from P. RC which made it easy to quickly put together or pull apart my pack. I can now hook up my 3 6s 2p packs to one RC charger and charge away. Once they are all in parallel they balance out pretty well even before I connect the charger and if i need to balance any of the 6s 2p packs i just through it on seperately or use a Batt Medic. If you use this type of charging system be sure to connect the parallel charge wires first as the balance wire simple can't handle the flow from 1 batt to another if the are out of balance.

here's a vid that david of P. RC made about parallel charging. I found it quite helpful.

[youtube]NczQwVTI2bY[/youtube]


shorza said:
Neptronics, no I am hoping for a 18s setup.

So it seem fairly easy;
I'll have to disconnect all the packs from my setup, and bulk charge the 6 packs by using the charge and balance leads like the ones that newb has posted.
http://www.progressiverc.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=126&category_id=14&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1
http://www.progressiverc.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=50&category_id=14&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1
I'll probably get these leads from HK when I buy my battery packs and charger.

Then balance the packs individually every few charges.

Can anyone recommend a charger that will do this?
Click to expand...
 
You can do that too.
Then the idea would be to make multiple parallel harnesses, with serial harnesses linked at the end to the charge/discharge leads.

Essentially you would break the serial connection each time you wanted to balance charge, and charge all 3 sections separately.

And you can optionally use a modified high voltage power supply to do bulk charges inbetween, as no RC chargers are meant to do that kind of voltage.
 
It's hard for me to wrap my head around. I assume you mean like this?
View attachment Untitled.png
(My first attempt at Paint, be nice.)

When i need to charge, I can disconnect the green connectors and charge each of the 3 banks of 6s 2p separately?
Is it possible for someone to provide a link to a charger that will charge the 3 banks, (at once preferably), and get it's power from 240v AC wall socket and not a separate power supply?

I'm slowly 'getting' it.
 
That's one way to do it but i cheat and just connect the packs bullets together (already 6s 2p) batt 1 neg to controller, while batt 1 pos connects to batt 2 neg and batt 2 pos to batt 3 neg and batt 3 pos to controller.

Here is a pick to help u understand. btw, packs are not fully charged

P1070056.JPG

As far a charger goes, any charger should work and there are lots to choose from, here are 2 examples. Just remember, unless you want it to take all day to charge you will want a higher wattage charger plus a high amp power supply, yes you will need both. All HK's large amp power supplys are BO for now so you will want to find another sorce like MeanWell (got mine off of ebay). Now if you're ready to jump into the deep end of the pool straight away you can go meanwell bulk charge but you really need to know what your doing. you don't want KFF

I use this charger (w/ a meanwell power supply), it's cheap, decent wattage and does the job.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=12105

However, if money is not a factor and you want more functions then look at these or similar from HK

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10382
 
Yes, your diagram is correct.

The majority of chargers on hobbycity will do that 6s just fine. Stay away from the quattro though. it is crap.

Friend of mine got the eco6 but returned it because it was lacking in options. Frankly i'd steer clear of the turnigy/hobbyking brand as they are knockoffs of better chargers..

can't go wrong with an icharger 106, or 3.. :)
 
shorza said:
This charging thing is expensive. So I will need power supply? I don't understand why the charger doesn't have one in it. What power supply is everyone running?
Click to expand...

Think about it this way. A good charger will prevent hundreds of dollars of lipo from going up in flames, extend your battery life, and prevent other nasty things from happening.

It is an investment into this wild world of electric bikes. You can even use those chargers to charge lifepo4 or other various chemistries like NiCad and such... or maybe battery chemistries that don't even exist yet.

I am using a $40 radioshack power supply i bought used. Stupid newbie decision on my part!!
A lot of people like meanwells, and i think many are using knock-off meanwells from eBay which are dirt cheap.
 
Get the meanwell 350 watt power supply in the appropriate voltage for the charger you chose. My cheap turnigy 150 watt chargers won't run on 24v for instance, so I got a 12v supply. With the voltage adjuster tweaked to max, I get 350 watts of 14v.

Should be able to get one on ebay for less than $50.
 
you're feeling the same thing i felt when i first jumped into lipo but the draw backs of getting set up are minimal compared to its benefits. once you have a good setup you won't need to change so its smart to spend the money upfront, if you can afford it. other wise you can get in cheap and spend more as you're ready to upgrade your system. a bit more expensive but just look at it as having backups in case something fails.

here is the meanwell i bought, good company w/ great customer service. i would have liked to buy one that put out 15v but it didn't go low enough for a second use i am hope to use it for so i just went w/ the 12v. but any of the knock offs will work just as well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MW-12V-DC-29A-350W-Meanwell-Switching-Power-Supply-/250764115134?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a62b4bcbe

you can always buy a brick power supply from HK or maybe you already have one, like this. but if you use these types it will likely take 4-8hrs to charge your pack. depending on how empty your pack is and output amperage of the the brick, these say 5 amp but cant handle that for long, its actually in the low 4's (personal experience).

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6256

i don't remember, have u purchase the lipo already? if not and you're finding this to much then you may want to consider a ping batt which is just plug and play and that's its #1 benefit, in my book.
 
shorza said:
This charging thing is expensive. So I will need power supply? I don't understand why the charger doesn't have one in it. What power supply is everyone running?
Click to expand...

At least it's a one-time cost and once you're equipped it's simply a matter of the cost of cells. The extra good news is that you'll probably find yourself using this equipment on many different device batteries around the home. I commonly, scavenge laptop cells to use for portable lighting. Or, recently I had a lithium camera battery that had lost so much charge sitting around the stock charger wouldn't initiate a charge but the RC charger allowed me to bring it back to a useful life. You can find lot's of uses for the RC charger besides an eBike battery.

As far as the separate power supply - these chargers are often used in remote locations to recharge scale airplanes, helo's, etc. Therefore, they evolved based on the fact most users connected them to their car battery to provide charging power while in the field. You can use most of 'em with a car battery but might as well grab a decent suitable $50 supply and you'll be covered.

I bought the cheapo Chargery A20 supply to go with my iCharger 106B+. I don't really use it much except for balancing, and troubleshooting every once in a while. My serial bulk charging Meanwell is a 48V 320W version pushing closer to 62 with a small Fechter limiter board.

BTW - those buzzer boards will only warn of low brick/pack voltage, not individual cell problems.
 
Would anyone recommend this power supply: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MW-12V-DC-29A-350W-Meanwell-Switching-Power-Supply-/350439820021?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5197d74af5 to use with this charger: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15045

I plan on charging 6 x Turnigy 5000mAh 6S 20C Lipo Packs.
 
shorza said:
Would anyone recommend this power supply: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MW-12V-DC-29A-350W-Meanwell-Switching-Power-Supply-/350439820021?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5197d74af5 to use with this charger: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15045

I plan on charging 6 x Turnigy 5000mAh 6S 20C Lipo Packs.
Click to expand...

Those are my exact setup and it functions well but, unless money really is tight I would recommend stepping up on the charger. Something like the 106B or 206B or 1010B, from what I've read the additional features are worth the cash. I should have spent the extra money. That said, my setup works just fine and does the job well. Good Luck
 
Time for some pictures. This is my planned setup.

I have on order 6 6s 500mah lipos
T5000-6-20.jpg


So i got this power supply (i know it needs work done):
tjintech-howto-HP47A-01.jpg

http://www.tjinguytech.com/my-projects/HP47A

and this Charger:
Mega400W-1.jpg

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15040

I plan on hooking up the battery packs in 3 lots of 6s 2p then series joining those 3 lots. As per this http://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=53848

My question is, if i solder XT60 plugs on my battery packs, can I hook them up in parallel using these:
601Bx601A-2PP.jpg


Then hook those paraelled packs in serial using two of these:
601Bx601A-2PS.jpg


Will the gauge be able to handle the 40-50amps that I will be pulling from the packs?
Can anyone see any problems with this battery setup?
Can anyone see any problems with this charging setup?

I don't want to order all this and find out that it won't work.
 
power supply is fine as long u can justify the work vs $ cost. unless ur using multiple chargers the power supply is overkill. if u buy a 12v or 15v meanwell it's plug and play and puts out plenty of watts/amps. i use 2 eco 6-10 w/my meanwell, each pull 8.6 amps.

pack design is good. r u expecting VERY short bursts of 40-50 amps or longer continuous times? if longer, you need to use at least 12ga and better to use 10ga.

again, i would recommend the icharger line up, if cash allows. aus HK warehouse has the 1010b instock for $121.40 on there one time offer - that's a good buy.

otherwise, ur good to go as long as u know ur going to need to do some cutting and soldering. recommend u buy shrink tube, extra wire, extra connectors and some kind of LVC monitor (buzzers (not great Idea) or a cycle analyst (very usefull for many reasons) and/or both gary & geoff have lvc boards). if ur not familiar w/ lvc's and y u need them, u need to do some reading. again, good luck
 
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