Complete e-Bike Kit for $500 shipped?

[qtipslea]

Hi,

Is it possible to have a complete e-Bike Kit for $500 shipped?

I would like a front hub motor so that it would be easy to install. I already checked and my bike has steel forks.

This kit only purpose is to help me bike against those strong winter winds up here in Canada, as such it should be winter-proof.

My commute is about 5KM each way and I can already do this on my own (very easy when there is no wind). The return path does include an average of 100 feets climb over the 5KM stretch.

If you guys could direct me what to get either through eBay or another Toronto-friendly website, that would be great.

PS: I weight 220 lbs so the motor should be able to lug some juicy fat.

 

[nuevomexicano]

Ebikekit.com has complete kits for under $600. Ampedbikes.com has very good kits for under $500. Both are reputable. However...a BIG however...that's for heavy and short life span SLA batteries. They certainly can work for your short commute. But lithium batteries will last much longer, weigh much less, and ride nicer overall.

 

[qtipslea]

Ebikekit.com has complete kits for under $600. Ampedbikes.com has very good kits for under $500. Both are reputable. However...a BIG however...that's for heavy and short life span SLA batteries. They certainly can work for your short commute. But lithium batteries will last much longer, weigh much less, and ride nicer overall.

Thank you for the swift reply.

Can these SLA batteries even perform in winter? A friend who bought a Electric Bike off a local retail store said that his SLA would be at 20% capacity in the cold winter chill.

Interested in reading some of your experience in using SLA in the winters.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, for serious cold, sla is not good. Some have helped sla's perform better by heating them before the ride, like keep em inside. But really, you need lithium, which costs much more. Lithium will still be affected by cold, but not nearly as much as slas.

Generally, $1200 is a much more realistic budget for a practical ebike. That gets you a battery that goes 3 times further than the 5-8 miles sla gets you. Sla range is not so practical, unless you just travel 2-3 miles to work or school.

5k is not a problem for the sla bike, and in fact, for a ride that short lithium may be overkill. But coming back out later, and having that frozen battery could be a deal breaker in really cold weather.

One option that could work would be to get yourself educated about lipo batteries, and go for a 12s 5 ah lipo battery. It can be done on a $200 budget for the battery, charger, and wattmeter. This would be so small, you could just about put the battery in your pockets to take em inside during class or work. Enough range to go 10k or so.

 

[qtipslea]

Yeah, for serious cold, sla is not good. Some have helped sla's perform better by heating them before the ride, like keep em inside. But really, you need lithium, which costs much more. Lithium will still be affected by cold, but not nearly as much as slas.

Generally, $1200 is a much more realistic budget for a practical ebike. That gets you a battery that goes 3 times further than the 5-8 miles sla gets you. Sla range is not so practical, unless you just travel 2-3 miles to work or school.

5k is not a problem for the sla bike, and in fact, for a ride that short lithium may be overkill. But coming back out later, and having that frozen battery could be a deal breaker in really cold weather.

One option that could work would be to get yourself educated about lipo batteries, and go for a 12s 5 ah lipo battery. It can be done on a $200 budget for the battery, charger, and wattmeter. This would be so small, you could just about put the battery in your pockets to take em inside during class or work. Enough range to go 10k or so.

I read a bit up on LIPO and I don't feel comfortable using it at my skill level. Plus, I have no safe space to charge it since it seems to go KABOOM easily.

I looked at the complete kit by http://www.e-bikekit.com and unfortunately they do not ship complete kit with battery to Canada.

Reason:

Due to the weight of the SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) battery pack shipping outside the continental United States is not economical.

I'm still waiting for http://www.ampedbikes.com to reply with a shipping quote. However, from the way e-bikekit.com replied, I would expect either the same response or the shipping cost to be so high that it kill my $500 budget.

 

[jtdiode]

You can buy the kit with out the batteries and pick up some lead acid batteries from a retailer like batteries plus. The batteries they use are nothing special and you should be able to pick them up pretty cheap. As far as keeping your batteries warm you can mount them in a bag with some insulation around them (I have a 1" think foam sleeping pad that I cut up for protection and insulation around my PING battery). You can also sew up a bag of rice that will fit in your battery bag and throw it in the microwave before you head out- the warm rice will help keep the battery at a decent temp longer. Good luck-

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Nice idea on the rice for warming the battery!

I agree that you should just buy batteries locally for SLA, they are heavy as hell, and that is what costs so much to ship in a complete kit. the normal price of a kit shipped plus some locally bought SLA batteries should stay with in your budget no problem, however, it's really worth it to have more like a Cycle Analyst or other watt meter (wish I hadn't gone cheap on mine first, CA is far superior to the other watt meters IMHO and really reasonably priced for what it does), but like most things in life, you can pay more now, or later, and usually later means it's going to be more expensive in the end.

You can get batteries from a local car battery supplier (they have the smaller batteries meant for UPS's, Exit lights or mopeds) for cheap, they might even have some used ones, however, you're still going to spend between $60 - $120 for lead, if you can wait, save up the $500+ for a decent sized LiFeP04 (Ping makes a nice inexpensive one that is plug and play) instead, and you will have a battery that will last you 5+ years or more depending on how hard you run it, or buy a new set of SLA's about every other year.

If you do get a LiFeP04 battery, it would very wise to also get a Cycle Analyst, so you can monitor how much battery you have left, and have a second protection through the CA to protect the battery from over discharge.

IMHO, you would be much wiser to do as dogman says, and have about $1200 saved up and then buy a decent sized battery (if you need a 10 AH, buy a 15 AH because it will last much longer) and you will have a bike that is powerful enough to be worth the extra weight you are hauling around.

Nothing worse than a weak under powered lead sled that is marginally faster than just pedaling since it weights so much.

What ever you decide, good luck! The fact that you have such a short commute is in your favor, don't be afraid to ask questions, we were all where you are now once.

 

[Lock]

http://baycyclesports.com/about/electric-kits-pg72.htm
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/

G'Luck!
1oCk

 

[nuevomexicano]

Your relatively low power requirements are below what most people here on ES are running. Nothing wrong with that, just different needs.

On more to consider, the Currie kits (http://www.currietech.com/currie-technologies-izip-conversion-kit1.php). Old tech and not exactly powerful, but well under $500. Look for darkangel's threads here on ES for more info. They have Canadian dealers: http://www.currietech.com/currie-technologies-international-dealers.php

 

[chisixer6]

You can also check clean republic for their conversion, Its cheap and easy, 5 minute conversion kit, if you don't have to enlarge fork dropout for 10mm axle. I had mine 2 months now, and it does what it advertise, 17mph with pedaling and 15 mph unassisted. it comes with 2 sla 7.5a batteries, I added a 3rd battery from NYCebike for $30 and now running reliable at 36v with top speed in mid 20's with pedaling and 20mph unassisted. quick enough for city streets in flat Chicago.

http://www.electric-bike-kit.com/hill-topper.aspx

also at Menards home centers, there is a E-Moto electric bike 24v with lithium battery for $499 complete. Just dont ask the help for any info. cheers Jerry

 

[dogman dan]

True enough, his ride is so short a currie kit could do it just fine. That would allow some budget for better battery to run it, and 24v 10 ah lifepo4 is a lot less expensive than 48v 15 ah.

 

[cell_man]

I just priced up 1 of my 500W DD kits, a 39V 6.9Ah A123 Pack and a small charger and it comes in at just under 600USD including SAL shipping to Canada. With a geared kit it would come in a bit cheaper due to the lower weight and therefore cheaper shipping. That would easily get you 10kms with no pedaling and a small A123 pack can still deliver the required power no problem.

I don't normally bother to push my own products these days, but just though I could offer something that was pretty close to your requirements

 

[Lock]

http://baycyclesports.com/about/electric-kits-pg72.htm
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/

Add:
http://shop.ecyck.com/Lithium-Battery-Pack-LiFePo4-48V20AH-GM-LFP-48V20AH.htm

Current ad on Craigslist, $280 for Magic Pie, battery extra:
http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/spo/2625029872.html

 

[John in CR]

I just priced up 1 of my 500W DD kits, a 39V 6.9Ah A123 Pack and a small charger and it comes in at just under 600USD including SAL shipping to Canada. With a geared kit it would come in a bit cheaper due to the lower weight and therefore cheaper shipping. That would easily get you 10kms with no pedaling and a small A123 pack can still deliver the required power no problem.

I don't normally bother to push my own products these days, but just though I could offer something that was pretty close to your requirements

That's a slam dunk right there. Premium battery and the works for $600 including shipping.

 

[ohzee]

Being that I broke my teeth on a amped bikes dot com rear dd kit with SLA & Tube battery I am of the opinion that
they are growing faster then they can keep up while also using inferior products to keep their costs down. Agreed their
tube battery when you can get one is nice - I am still un happy they advertised 12ah and sold me 10ah.

Within 50 miles on my kit I had to replace my freewheel. It seemed like 3 others had the same freewheel issue around
the same time I did which is un acceptable.

My advice would be to use someone who is active on this board and can keep up with what they sell. GL

Mod edit : closing topic as per request of OP

 

[qtipslea]

Thank you for all the replies guys. I'm overwhelm with the choices. Didn't even realize there are so much options. Give me a few to take it all in and don't get angry if I didn't directly reply to your post. Its just so much information.

 

[qtipslea]

I just priced up 1 of my 500W DD kits, a 39V 6.9Ah A123 Pack and a small charger and it comes in at just under 600USD including SAL shipping to Canada. With a geared kit it would come in a bit cheaper due to the lower weight and therefore cheaper shipping. That would easily get you 10kms with no pedaling and a small A123 pack can still deliver the required power no problem.

I don't normally bother to push my own products these days, but just though I could offer something that was pretty close to your requirements

Please check PM.

http://baycyclesports.com/about/electric-kits-pg72.htm
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/

Add:
http://shop.ecyck.com/Lithium-Battery-Pack-LiFePo4-48V20AH-GM-LFP-48V20AH.htm

Current ad on Craigslist, $280 for Magic Pie, battery extra:
http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/spo/2625029872.html

What a coincident! I been talking to you about the Magic Pie kit!

Being that I broke my teeth on a amped bikes dot com rear dd kit with SLA & Tube battery I am of the opinion that
they are growing faster then they can keep up while also using inferior products to keep their costs down. Agreed their
tube battery when you can get one is nice - I am still un happy they advertised 12ah and sold me 10ah.

Within 50 miles on my kit I had to replace my freewheel. It seemed like 3 others had the same freewheel issue around
the same time I did which is un acceptable.

My advice would be to use someone who is active on this board and can keep up with what they sell. GL

Thanks for the warning. That is scary. I will stay away from http://www.ampedbikes.com then. Its taking them a while to get a shipping quote too so you must be right away them being too busy.

 

[dogman dan]

Worth the extra $100 ten times over to have the A123 battery. Slam dunk for sure. If you possibly can, get that kit. If not, get the motor there anyway, and save up for the battery by spring. Meanwhile, find something in a battery, freecycle somehow. Or just pedal it for the winter, it's not that far.

 

[qtipslea]

That's a slam dunk right there. Premium battery and the works for $600 including shipping.

Worth the extra $100 ten times over to have the A123 battery. Slam dunk for sure. If you possibly can, get that kit. If not, get the motor there anyway, and save up for the battery by spring. Meanwhile, find something in a battery, freecycle somehow. Or just pedal it for the winter, it's not that far.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Just waiting on cell_man to response. I asked him about the geared kit option and mainly if the 39V 6.9Ah A123 Pack can handle the commute. I re-calculate it and its going to be more like 15KM than 10KM, uphill with 100 feets climb.

 

[nuevomexicano]

Being that I broke my teeth on a amped bikes dot com rear dd kit with SLA & Tube battery I am of the opinion that
they are growing faster then they can keep up while also using inferior products to keep their costs down. Agreed their
tube battery when you can get one is nice - I am still un happy they advertised 12ah and sold me 10ah.

Within 50 miles on my kit I had to replace my freewheel. It seemed like 3 others had the same freewheel issue around
the same time I did which is un acceptable.

My advice would be to use someone who is active on this board and can keep up with what they sell. GL

Thanks for the warning. That is scary. I will stay away from http://www.ampedbikes.com then. Its taking them a while to get a shipping quote too so you must be right away them being too busy.

I'm no Amped bikes apologist, but I have 750 miles of near daily riding on my Amped bikes geared drive kit and have no problem at all with the free wheel. The busyness is another matter, though one reason I didn't buy from cell_man was has busy he was and long it took to get back to me.

 

[qtipslea]

While waiting on some replies and quotes. Can I get you guys to advice me on this particular deal?

Magic Pie Front DD 36v 500W Kit.

http://shop.ecyck.com/Magic-Pie-with-Internal-Controller-GM-MPNoBatt.htm

It is used for $200. Local enough that I can bus there and avoid the shipping fees.

On the same store, they are also offering some batteries that look interesting like this one:

Lithium Battery Frog Style LiFePo4 24V10AH
http://shop.ecyck.com/Lithium-Battery-Frog-Style-LiFePo4-24V10AH-GM-LFP-24V10AH.htm

That would definitely put me under $500 shipped (or pick up in this case).

 

[TonyReynolds]

I would recommend cell_man. I've been happy with my kit, and while a lot more expensive than what you're looking at, he's fair an I found him to be very responsive. I think his A123 battery will be much better than the frog battery.

 

[TonyReynolds]

While waiting on some replies and quotes. Can I get you guys to advice me on this particular deal?

Magic Pie Front DD 36v 500W Kit.

http://shop.ecyck.com/Magic-Pie-with-Internal-Controller-GM-MPNoBatt.htm

It is used for $200. Local enough that I can bus there and avoid the shipping fees.

On the same store, they are also offering some batteries that look interesting like this one:

Lithium Battery Frog Style LiFePo4 24V10AH
http://shop.ecyck.com/Lithium-Battery-Frog-Style-LiFePo4-24V10AH-GM-LFP-24V10AH.htm

That would definitely put me under $500 shipped (or pick up in this case).

The battery you've spec'd won't run the motor. You'd need a 36V (nominal) battery for that Magic Pie, C$90 more...

 

[qtipslea]

While waiting on some replies and quotes. Can I get you guys to advice me on this particular deal?

Magic Pie Front DD 36v 500W Kit.

http://shop.ecyck.com/Magic-Pie-with-Internal-Controller-GM-MPNoBatt.htm

It is used for $200. Local enough that I can bus there and avoid the shipping fees.

On the same store, they are also offering some batteries that look interesting like this one:

Lithium Battery Frog Style LiFePo4 24V10AH
http://shop.ecyck.com/Lithium-Battery-Frog-Style-LiFePo4-24V10AH-GM-LFP-24V10AH.htm

That would definitely put me under $500 shipped (or pick up in this case).

The battery you've spec'd won't run the motor. You'd need a 36V (nominal) battery for that Magic Pie, C$90 more...

Good catch. Didn't realize it has to be the same 36V.

Hmm.

Question: Why is A123 battery on Emissions-Free so much more expensive than the LiFePO4 version from Ping?
Answer: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=67732 (brochure of A123)

2nd Question: Is it worth the extra $100?

A A123 39V 9.2Ah A123 Pack is $350 + $25 (36V 3A charger) = $375

http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i25.html

In comparison to 36V 10AH V2.5 LiFePO4 Battery Pack for $280 (including a 2.5A charger free).

http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-8/36V-10AH-V2.5-LiFePO4/Detail

Difference is $95 and the Ping version has longer range by having an extra 0.8AH.

Also, how about this as a battery alternative?

Lithium Battery Pack LiFePo4 36V12AH for $380. This one is nice since I can pick it up locally with the used $200 Magic Pie 901 front kit.

http://shop.ecyck.com/Lithium-Battery-Pack-LiFePo4-36V12AH-GM-LFP-36V12AH.htm

 

[John in CR]

Something to consider in sizing your battery is to budget using only 80% of the capacity, which will extend the life greatly if you only rarely go to deep discharge. The cold will further decrease capacity, though I don't know the percentages for different lithium chemistries. If the bike is parked at both ends (work and home) in a room temp environment, that should help a lot, especially if you insulate it pretty well when outside. You didn't mention charging at work, which with the smaller batteries discussed will be mandatory unless you used it as just a bit of electric assist.

Actual battery needs can vary greatly with lots of pedaling reducing usage to minuscule numbers. OTOH a few inches of snow, a big headwind along with bulkier clothing and it could be big numbers. Going fast uses a lot more too. Adding more battery in parallel is simple, so you can get into it, and get that EV grin before deciding you want more. I can pretty much assure you that when you like it, you'll want more battery, and then most head toward more performance too.

What I like about Cell_Man's offer is that you know exactly what you get. He even goes to the extent of testing and matching the real A123 cells that go into his pack. Also, should you shoot for more performance later, you've got cells that can deliver. The cells in his 6.9ah pack are capable of 200 amps continuous, and they can be charged fast too if you invest in a high power charger down the road. It may be cutting it close in terms of capacity, but you should be able to test that out and get sold on the whole concept before the really bad weather arrives. Dealing locally is a big plus though, especially in terms of immediate gratification, but be careful that you're not buying someone else's broken junk.