John in CR
100 TW
Beastie,
You make an iPad (or "i"anything) faster by taking a hammer to it and dumping it into the recycling bin.
You make an iPad (or "i"anything) faster by taking a hammer to it and dumping it into the recycling bin.
Conductivity improving grease project
- Thread starter liveforphysics
- Start date
John in CR
100 TW
Luke,
Why grease and not an adhesive? I keep thinking of ways the grease can migrate and cause a short. We're not talking about terminal posts on a lead car battery.
Why grease and not an adhesive? I keep thinking of ways the grease can migrate and cause a short. We're not talking about terminal posts on a lead car battery.
liveforphysics
100 TW
I am trying to prep the DP1e for Laguna this weekend, but I will try to get test data next week.
If anyone else wants to order the stuff and test there own blends, feel free to join me. I embrace the radical advantages of open development.
If the guys I met with remember to send it, I am being gifted 100g of the material to do development of whatever I want with. I want to share it with other people with the proper safety, experience, skills to do fun RnD with it.
If anyone else wants to order the stuff and test there own blends, feel free to join me. I embrace the radical advantages of open development.
If the guys I met with remember to send it, I am being gifted 100g of the material to do development of whatever I want with. I want to share it with other people with the proper safety, experience, skills to do fun RnD with it.
liveforphysics
100 TW
John in CR said:
The 'grease' I've blended it with is not technically a grease (greases are oils thickened by soaps into a paste). This 'grease' isn't something thickened that can separate or run. It's long siloxane polymer chains tangled together into something intrinsically paste-like that does not run or drop or move a bit all the way to ~200degC.
OK I went ahead and did some calculation and research in terms of conductivity of material. I think the consensus on the information I found is these SWCNT (Single-Walled Carbon Nano Tube) @ 75% purity are typically 1.5-2x more conductive compared to silver... maybe.
Silver cost per gram today: $0.67 USD
Cost for 1g of these SWCNT: $5 USD if you order 1Kg-10Kg.
So for 1.5x-2x conductivity for more than 10x the price? I guess this is a start if you compared to a year ago, but we'll have to wait a bit more. Unless you are counting other benefits of SWCNT such as durability, high temperature resistance, no need to mined, and possibly smaller amount required for similar performance to silver. But still, I am not sure it's worth it now.
If we can make use of cheaper materials mixed with the SWCNT, then maybe it's cost effective. We will have to wait to see what Luke does with his batch.
Silver cost per gram today: $0.67 USD
Cost for 1g of these SWCNT: $5 USD if you order 1Kg-10Kg.
So for 1.5x-2x conductivity for more than 10x the price? I guess this is a start if you compared to a year ago, but we'll have to wait a bit more. Unless you are counting other benefits of SWCNT such as durability, high temperature resistance, no need to mined, and possibly smaller amount required for similar performance to silver. But still, I am not sure it's worth it now.
If we can make use of cheaper materials mixed with the SWCNT, then maybe it's cost effective. We will have to wait to see what Luke does with his batch.
liveforphysics
100 TW
mvly said:
It's not just the conductivity of the material added to the grease. That is only half the puzzle.
The other half is the interface of the particles to both the surfaces (and inherent oxide layers etc), as well as particle/particle interface conductivity.
John in CR
100 TW
liveforphysics said:
Got it. It will be interesting to see how it really works. I get the nano tubes creating the nice interface, but will the polymer get in the way? I can't wait to hear the resistance of a long thin line of your paste.
Laguna in your car sure sounds fun...4 wheels on the ground at all times please.
liveforphysics
100 TW
John in CR said:
Yes, the polymer will get in the way to an extent. It's function is to block O2 from the atmosphere from forming thicker non-conductive/poorly-conductive oxide scales over surfaces, as well as fill the voids that could otherwise be more vulnerable to moisture and corrosion.
We will know soon enough if the conductivity improves or not.
John in CR said:
I do promise to have fun. I don't promise to keep a 4 on the ground.
Since you probably only need a pin drop between the cell and tab surface, a little should go a long way.
Would have to be careful when servicing or retiring a pack made with the stuff, might be a good idea to hide a label in there just in case it grows legs some day.
edit : might be a great way to track down a thief, write on the note " Please call xxx-xxx-xxxx right away, this pack was built with highly deadly substance that requires proper safety methods, call now before you loose the ability to move your fingers... "
Would have to be careful when servicing or retiring a pack made with the stuff, might be a good idea to hide a label in there just in case it grows legs some day.
edit : might be a great way to track down a thief, write on the note " Please call xxx-xxx-xxxx right away, this pack was built with highly deadly substance that requires proper safety methods, call now before you loose the ability to move your fingers... "
cal3thousand
10 MW
liveforphysics said:John in CR said:
Yes, the polymer will get in the way to an extent. It's function is to block O2 from the atmosphere from forming thicker non-conductive/poorly-conductive oxide scales over surfaces, as well as fill the voids that could otherwise be more vulnerable to moisture and corrosion.
We will know soon enough if the conductivity improves or not.
John in CR said:
I do promise to have fun. I don't promise to keep a 4 on the ground.
Please have video. Especially the famous off-camber chicane near the end.
agniusm
1 MW
I'm so waiting for first results on this kish mish compound. Up it goes so we wont forget
r3volved
100 kW
LFP - Anything further to report?
Did anyone accept your offer of experimentation?
Super interesting...the thread kinda died down and has me chomping at the bit for updates.
Did anyone accept your offer of experimentation?
Super interesting...the thread kinda died down and has me chomping at the bit for updates.
cal3thousand
10 MW
Arlo1 said:On his way to come to my weddingr3volved said:
Congrats!
Harold in CR
100 kW
Congratulations to Arlo and his Bride to be. 8) 8)
It was a EPIC day. Luke and his amazing wife Heather made it. So much excitement in one day. The last week was about a years worth of living for me. Luke helped change many peoples points of view on EVs and was just awesome to have him and his wife here Love you Luke thanks again!
Bob K
10 W
This conductive grease is a nice idea. I would like to bring up the consideration of galvanic
electrolysis. ( is that redundant?) . That is, if you have copper against nickel , that has
a potential to cause corrosion issues. Now, if we introduce carbon into the interface,
will this decrease or accelerate the increased resistance/corrosion over time of this connection?
Now, remember , this junction has a lot of amps going through it. It is not just an
electrochemical potential between dissimilar metals. Maybe what I am trying to bring up is,
maybe, if this grease idea is workable, it might be better in the long term to just use nickel
interconnects to match the battery's nickel terminals' electro-potential.
Just throwing it out there, the electro-potential tables need to be looked at.
As a side note: There are commercial products made of small beads of nickel that are made to
be used in epoxy bonded joints. The beads make the electrical connection by way of point loads,
and the epoxy is the structural joint component. Maybe a grease with this product might
hold some potential ? ( not as sexy as carbon nano-tubes though! )
Bob K
electrolysis. ( is that redundant?) . That is, if you have copper against nickel , that has
a potential to cause corrosion issues. Now, if we introduce carbon into the interface,
will this decrease or accelerate the increased resistance/corrosion over time of this connection?
Now, remember , this junction has a lot of amps going through it. It is not just an
electrochemical potential between dissimilar metals. Maybe what I am trying to bring up is,
maybe, if this grease idea is workable, it might be better in the long term to just use nickel
interconnects to match the battery's nickel terminals' electro-potential.
Just throwing it out there, the electro-potential tables need to be looked at.
As a side note: There are commercial products made of small beads of nickel that are made to
be used in epoxy bonded joints. The beads make the electrical connection by way of point loads,
and the epoxy is the structural joint component. Maybe a grease with this product might
hold some potential ? ( not as sexy as carbon nano-tubes though! )
Bob K
Arlo1 said:It was a EPIC day. Luke and his amazing wife Heather made it. So much excitement in one day. The last week was about a years worth of living for me. Luke helped change many peoples points of view on EVs and was just awesome to have him and his wife here Love you Luke thanks again!
pics or it didn't happen. :lol:
wb9k
10 kW
Luke, I'm also interested in trying some of this material out. Can you PM me?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
You get this for now... Im very busy enjoying my holidays. I will make a thread later.nicobie said:Arlo1 said:It was a EPIC day. Luke and his amazing wife Heather made it. So much excitement in one day. The last week was about a years worth of living for me. Luke helped change many peoples points of view on EVs and was just awesome to have him and his wife here Love you Luke thanks again!
pics or it didn't happen. :lol:
Attachments
kfong
100 kW
A very valid problem!
Bob K said:
Samd
10 MW
Well, sure! Let the testing by us begin!TheBeastie said:
liveforphysics
100 TW
Anyone have this paper who can share it?
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=1287996&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel5%2F9052%2F28707%2F01287996
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=1287996&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel5%2F9052%2F28707%2F01287996
wb9k
10 kW
Arlo1 said:You get this for now... Im very busy enjoying my holidays. I will make a thread later.nicobie said:Arlo1 said:It was a EPIC day. Luke and his amazing wife Heather made it. So much excitement in one day. The last week was about a years worth of living for me. Luke helped change many peoples points of view on EVs and was just awesome to have him and his wife here Love you Luke thanks again!
pics or it didn't happen. :lol:
Pretty fly moves from Luke there, but does he carry that fire extinguisher everywhere he goes?