Criminalizing e-biking

Well, I met with our city mayor tonight because I felt he should have similar concerns. I related to him the situation in NYC with respect to ebikes. He expressed similar questions with respect to how laws are passed especially on the local level. I content that laws passed by instinct at the local level in NYC somehow appear to find their way to the national level without even any official legislation whatsoever.
I hope he chews on this for a while before I continue this with him at our next meeting. Meanwhile I say
"Ebike Today, Ebike Tommorrow, Ebike forever".
 
markz said:
Why not emphasize cyclists in general are being injured or dying and nothing done about it, with respect to vehicles.

I have had many instances being harassed simply for riding a bike and one particular incident in stands out as proof that there are anti-bicycle sentiments. This incident occurred as I was waiting to cross a very busy 4 lane street with cars at all intersection locations. When the "walk" light came on , I immediately proceeded to cross on my bike when a vehicle making a left turn from the opposite side was determined to beat me through the intersection. My heart stopped with fear he was going to purposely hit me . Instead this driver shortened his turn to beat me and unbelievably ended going against traffic on his near side lane.
This driver was absolutely deliberate with intent to scare me because both of us had a lengthy red light before the "walk" light came on and he had to have seen me waiting to cross. He drove his vehicle against traffic for a half block before correcting.
This is an absolutely rare incident proving the "deliberate" malicious intent by a car driver and I wonder how many other deliberate car vs bicycle incidents were actually deliberate and not accidental.
I state that this incident was deliberate because in all instances a driver meeting a bicyclist crossing would simply apply his brakes while this driver actually accelerated upon seeing me. I hope I made my point clear .
\.
 
+1 bike =-1 car+1 parking place +1 road room /(-1 polution -0.01 premature cancer death)=happy city
Elementary maths. Someday the idiots in charge will look at this equation. Doesn't matter if they want it or not as oil is unsustainable
 
Hehe... In this thread so far "Search found 1 match: +europe"... Given news reports now flooding in from towns and cities and countries around Europe, with governments literally "throwing money" to promote use of bikes with battery assist... One wonders how Mister Mayor in NYC might respond to the "global situation" about the rise in use of the electric bike elsewhere... :wink:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57933
 
LockH said:
Hehe... In this thread so far "Search found 1 match: +europe"... Given news reports now flooding in from towns and cities and countries around Europe, with governments literally "throwing money" to promote use of bikes with battery assist... One wonders how Mister Mayor in NYC might respond to the "global situation" about the rise in use of the electric bike elsewhere... :wink:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57933

Simple.... Like so ...

Step1 :autruche.gif

Step 2 :faire-l-autruche.jpg

Matador
 
The pursuit of zero risk is the biggest fallacy in modern civilization which costs us financially and our civil liberties.

People have been brain washed into believing that anything that promotes safety or welfare is worth it despite the costs. Which are rarely if ever studied or disclosed.

Zero risk initiatives that require financial backing from municipalities and enforcement are nonsense.

Seat belts and drunk driving are victories not of enforcement or legislation but rather publication of evidence and championing of social change through communication. Don't even get started with the "speed limit" debate, which is RARELY evidence based.

Rant over.
 
There is no new law. He is making the cops enforce the state motor vehicle law that says that any motorized vehicles must be registered. Ebikes don’t have DOT equipment and/or VIN numbers therefore they can not be registered. According to NYS law you can be charged with operating a motor vehicle without registration, inspection and insurance. That can add up to way over 500 bucks! New York sucks!
 
Hehe... "the state motor vehicle law"...

https://www.co.seneca.ny.us/wp-cont...Vehicle-and-Traffic-Law-in-New-York-State.pdf

The first legislative recognition of the motor vehicle appeared in Chapter 531 of the Laws of 1901, when the existing definition of “carriage” was amended so as to include “automobiles or motor vehicles and all other vehicles propelled by electricity, steam, gasoline or other source of energy.”
That same legislative action required the registration of motor vehicles, starting April 25, 1901, the owner of an automobile or motor vehicle required to file a statement with the Secretary of State and secure a registration certificate, upon payment of a fee of one dollar. This apparently was a permanent registration and fee.

Were I a NY State resident would gladly pay a buck to make "authorities" "go away". :wink: Presumably they also ask folks on pedal bikes to pay something (using food as an energy source)... :lol: (Better tax pedestrians also.) :wink:
 
Do we have rock-solid proof of this?

Take a look at De Blasio getting donations from the cab industry.

Starting with four articles from four different papers.


New York Post dated 5-17-2014
New York Times dated 7-17-2014
The New Yorker dated 7-17-2017
Daily News dated 12-21-2013

And the list goes on. De Blasio will do what he can to keep down the competition for one of his contributors it only makes political sense to him.
 
LockH said:
Hehe... "the state motor vehicle law"...

https://www.co.seneca.ny.us/wp-cont...Vehicle-and-Traffic-Law-in-New-York-State.pdf

The first legislative recognition of the motor vehicle appeared in Chapter 531 of the Laws of 1901, when the existing definition of “carriage” was amended so as to include “automobiles or motor vehicles and all other vehicles propelled by electricity, steam, gasoline or other source of energy.”
That same legislative action required the registration of motor vehicles, starting April 25, 1901, the owner of an automobile or motor vehicle required to file a statement with the Secretary of State and secure a registration certificate, upon payment of a fee of one dollar. This apparently was a permanent registration and fee.

Were I a NY State resident would gladly pay a buck to make "authorities" "go away". :wink: Presumably they also ask folks on pedal bikes to pay something (using food as an energy source)... :lol: (Better tax pedestrians also.) :wink:

A buck would be great. Even a fair registration fee would be fine with me. But..... these laws have been amended to where you must have minimum liability insurance coverage in order to get the registration. Then you need to have it inspected after getting the registration. If there is no VIN number you must get the vehicle inspected by the state and if it has all of the proper DOT equipment then it can be titled as a homemade vehicle. So it can be done with moped wheels and such but what a run around and expense!
 
augidog said:
In the gas-powered bicycle world, which predates Electric-Assisted Bicycles, but is also a parallel precursor, the problem lies with us, and our collective image. As a group, we simply REFUSE to self-regulate.

And when someone, anyone, wants to learn more about our contraptions, where do they go? They go to the most popular search results, which are dominated by scofflaws who don't give a damn about legal parameters or common-sense safety.

I know who you are, and YOU know who you are. Thanks for NOTHING. STOP blaming people who are simply trying to protect people from us.

So are you saying the law written in 1901 was due to scofflaws? Hell no! NY saw a way to make money and jumped on it. Keep in mind NY is the only state that Ebikes of any kind are illegal. That has nothing at all to do with trying to keep us safe from ourselves.
 
augidog said:
the only thing i'm going to say about the two replies so far is that you're avoiding my valid (on-topic) point about our poor collective image by nitpicking details that don't matter.
It is hard to have a bad image when most people in NY have no clue about an electric bike. Elsewhere I cannot speak for but here in NY I have to disagree.
 
augidog said:
Only the hotrodders are noticed, and reacted to, and those delivery guys asked for trouble by getting noticed.

Look, I've been through this a bazillion times...wait and see how my reasoning is attacked, while the group as a whole avoids responsibility as a whole. Lack of self-regulation will lead to over-regulation. Some few of us have been saying this for over a decade now.
I agree with the delivery guys getting themselves noticed. I used to work in the city and they are easy to spot. However I did not see very many of the actual delivery guys breaking any laws. There were a few of course. I also understand your point completely as an avid off roader that has seen a lot of trail closures due to misuse by a few.
I guess I am saying that your point is very relevant to the topic overall but it is not what is behind what is going on in NY.
 
If you vote Democrat, you have no right to complain. You got what you asked for.
Democrat=Marxist, socialist, left-wing, authoritarian, centralized & arbitrary control of as much as possible. Get used to it, or go against it. Most of us start out left-wing. I did not get used to it. I got a rude awakening, got of a forced education on another hobby/rights matter, and went against the concept of centralized/authoritarian/arbitrary control and concentrated power.

Left-wing/globalist politics are pretty much collapsing right now, as people are waking up with better info from non-mainstream sources. You're trained to be left-wing, as a kid by the TV and school. Many still believe libertarians and righties would have poor people starving and want to deprive people of this and that, including basic and emergency medical care but in reality these aren't true, which is why they don't want people looking at alt sources, lest they find this out. Then their agenda crumbles, as not much of an argument is left, when a lefty is convinced that their non-lefty friend actually is compassionate and reasonable (okay, righties are not compassionate when it comes to animals, but every side has its flaws, and the Left overall far more problematic).

More control=more power farther away from you=more centralization=rulemakers who don't know you/care about you/make rules in their interest, not yours.

Isn't the goal someday, basically no government? If we can be moral and decent enough. If you vote Democrat/socialist/leftist/fascist/globalist/DeBlahBlahBlahUhOh, you're not heading to that goal, but away. The struggle is for less government, not more. For less taking advantage of the system, not more. For less abuse of power, not more. For more limitations on government and across-the-board ground ruls the govt has to follow, not fewer. For less limitations on US, not more.

More government = less freedom. It always has, and always will.
Less government = more freedom.

Truth movement
Freedom movement

Some people are part of one
Some people are part of the other

Why not both?

You cannot have Truth without Freedom

You cannot have Freedom without Truth

Globalist one-world govt New World Order agenda is same agenda as socialist/leftist/'Democrat'/communist agenda. NWO = real term. Elites use the term internally and externally. Then somehow have the news program you to chortle when it's used. But it's very real. Elites using the term publicly (compilation) and this is nowhere near exhaustive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBSJvtkPICM


Laugh if you don't know yr stuff. Readers in europe aren't laughing (and if you are, you're a super-tool). They're not even allowed to own an e-Bike WITH A THROTTLE. That's only due to socialism/big govt. Go live in southern California for a few years, and you'll feel HALFWAY what it's like to live in Europe. Everything expensive, small portions, can't buy your own home, lifelong debt, regulations out the azz, politicians inviting everyone but YOU to abuse the system. Want 100% car tax? Want 500% fuel tax? Want a bus system that's sometimes slower than walking? Want no throttle on your ebike? Want minimal private property? Want no right to physically defend your own life? Move to europe. Live in USA and don't want that? Stop voting left/Democrat. Join the New Right and Libertarians, it's not your father's conservatism. Gay rights, anti-racism (real/actual) equality, and drug decriminalization is a given with most freedom-oriented non-leftists. (No, people aren't going to starve, and most don't want total dissolultion of welfare, just for people to stop exploiting it.) All the Left has now is authoritarianism and mass inefficiency and it will only get more. Left is crumbling.
 
Instead of calling this post what it is, I am going to be polite.
SprocketLocket said:
If you vote Democrat, you have no right to complain. .....
Isn't the goal someday, basically no government? If we can be moral and decent enough. ...
We (as in the human race) can not. Anarchy is a recipe for disaster.
 
You can always vote with your feet.. there's lots of other places to live.
Or build a super stealthy ebike. How about a vivax drive or 250w geared hub with a sine controller ...?

I left California over lesser things in 2008 and couldn't be happier.
 
SprocketLocket said:
More government = less freedom. It always has, and always will.
Less government = more freedom.

What are you, like twelve years old?

Governments suck. The absence of government sucks way more, because it brings us all down to the lowest common denominator of human behavior. Move to Somalia if you want to taste weak government in practice.

Governments suck because they are overly influenced by the same folks who run completely rampant in the absence of government. You like warlords, gangsters, and exploiters? Go for weak government.

neptronix said:
I left California over lesser things in 2008 and couldn't be happier.

Couldn't be happier than in Utah? I can be a lot happier than that, in almost a perfect inverse proportion to the quantity of Mormons or Saudis present.
 
Chalo said:
Governments suck because they are overly influenced by the same folks who run completely rampant in the absence of government. You like warlords, gangsters, and exploiters? Go for weak government.

Seems like only a difference in title.

[youtube]IErlI34-0so[/youtube]

Here's a fun video that only the liberty oriented will get..

neptronix said:
I left California over lesser things in 2008 and couldn't be happier.

Chalo said:
Couldn't be happier than in Utah? I can be a lot happier than that, in almost a perfect inverse proportion to the quantity of Mormons or Saudis present.

I see you've never spent much time in Salt Lake City.
Won't see many Mormons around here, except during the big conferences.

I also lived in Denver, Colorado Springs, and Portland, Oregon.
Explored many other places and entertained living there. I've spent time in about half the USA.

Plenty of places i like better than CA. I haven't bothered venturing into New York state.. probably never will.
 
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