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E-S Greyborg owners' pics

Looking good Spacey. Personally I think your longer suspension will be good. I notice my bike has a decided rake, yours might be shortened a bit by your longer rear suspesnsion. Such a shame we all can't live near each other to ride and compare them. Looking forward to seeing yours built up.
 
Hey Guys

Both machines looking great 8) I can see a lot of these builds coming on line, would love to see some videos of you guys ripping around on them 8)
 
Nice work Phil, great to see your up and running, love the clean chain line, very slick indeed :mrgreen:

Like the black canopy too, simple and elegant, looking forward to seeing the real world data of speed and energy consuption when you have fine tuned everything and get round to it.

Glad you enjoyed the first impressions of riding it, when the word gets out what an awesome platform the Greyborg is to buildup we will start to see more of them I am sure.

Congrats on getting her done! :D
 
Outstanding..

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Long live the 'Borg :twisted:
 
Nice work Phil, great to see your up and running, love the clean chain line, very slick indeed

Like the black canopy too, simple and elegant, looking forward to seeing the real world data of speed and energy consuption when you have fine tuned everything and get round to it.

Glad you enjoyed the first impressions of riding it, when the word gets out what an awesome platform the Greyborg is to buildup we will start to see more of them I am sure.

Congrats on getting her done!
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Thanks mate. I had a bunch of overdue work I had to get done tonight, but I just finished and went out for a blast. I have one of those halogen lights that plug into the CA, it is awesome for night time riding. I can't explain how much fun this thing is. Previously I had the same controller and battery setup, but I had my batteries contained in a huge (and I mean huge) toolbox that was bolted to a rear rack of a rigid frame Mtn Bike. It handled like a pig, and I was scared to even hit slight bumps less the tool box tear off the back.

Now it feels like I am on a motard. I can slam up gutters, there is almost nowhere in the urban environment I can't fly through. I knew this was going to be fun but I just can't get over how much fun this thing is.
 
Resistance was futile, I ordered my frame from the Accountant last week.

My plan is to transfer all my parts from my tidelforce build to the Grayborg frame. I will be using a 72v 20Ah headway pack so I know they will fit. My only concern at this point is can I get a kick stand that will hold the bike up and can I conveniently attach my Bob trailer to the frame without welding.

I look forward to following all the Grayborg builds and maybe using some of your ideas to my advantage.

Barry
 
You won't regret it. It is an awesome frame.

I attached a side stand that attaches to both the upper and lower limbs of the rear swingarm. Works perfect.

Re your trailer, I used mine on my child trailer, and one thing that happened which I hadn't thought of (my trailer has a hitch that slides over the axle, don't know how your bob works) because the dropouts are horizontal the trailer weight (had two kids in there) moved the axle in the drop out slightly, enough to mess with the chain tension if that makes sense. But as I said, that is because my hitch attaches over the axle.
 
The Greyborg DIY e-bike frame is awesome!
 
Tip for everyone dropping in a hubbie on the Greyborg, you do need torque arms. My drop outs were such a snug fit, tighter than a nun's nasty, I just presumed I wouldn't need torque arms. Three hours of installation of my new HS35 later, two test rides, and I spun the motor in the drops outs, and damaged my phase wires....

EDIT: I should note, with my 8x8 9C, I didn't need torque arms, the motor didn't even mark the dropouts (hence why I didn't think I needed torque arms), but as I said, two rides on the HS35, and the axles spun, I had really tightened up the bolts and everything.
 
Philistine said:
Tip for everyone dropping in a hubbie on the Greyborg, you do need torque arms. My drop outs were such a snug fit, tighter than a nun's nasty, I just presumed I wouldn't need torque arms. Three hours of installation of my new HS35 later, two test rides, and I spun the motor in the drops outs, and damaged my phase wires....

EDIT: I should note, with my 8x8 9C, I didn't need torque arms, the motor didn't even mark the dropouts (hence why I didn't think I needed torque arms), but as I said, two rides on the HS35, and the axles spun, I had really tightened up the bolts and everything.
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Err.. Can Hal or Vladmir confirm that the torque arms are really needed?
I was so sure there was no need.
 
As I said, when I used my 8x8 9C, the torque arms were not needed. Not only did my hub not budge, it didn't even mark the drop outs. But last night I installed a HS35 (on 20S), and tightened the nuts really tight, and on the second test ride I got back and realised the axle had done a full rotation (such that it stretched and damaged my phase wires).

As I said, the drops outs were tight when I installed it, and I tightened the nuts right up. But also, as I said, with my 9C there was never a problem. I guess the HS35 just has way more grunt.
 
Philistine said:
Tip for everyone dropping in a hubbie on the Greyborg, you do need torque arms..

..the axle had done a full rotation (such that it stretched and damaged my phase wires).
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DAG Phil, your 'Borg sure is chewing through the frocks, huh?! Umm, you wanted to upgrade your brand new motor's phase wires to larger gauge anyway, right? :roll:

Huge THANKS for the heads-up on torque arms as I will soon be running almost exactly the same setup you got there - but with 3.0" rubber wrapped around 24" rim (pics soon). The Greyborg's ~10.5 mm wide drop outs give me that warm, fuzzy feeling ..but a torque arm -or two- is definitely going on there.

Stupid question time- what kind of performance did you see before things went left? CA readings?
 
what kind of performance did you see before things went left? CA readings?
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My controller was set to 40amp, running on 20S. It was 3.5KW constant, and I easily hit 68kph, with an accurately set speedo on my CA. That wasn't trying either, I just looked down and saw that was the speed, could have kept going.

The Borg just runs so smooth it is unbelievable. It really does feel like a motard or motocross bike. You can just slam up stuff so fast it is amazing. Rides so nicely, it is such a cool frame. Everyone I have given a go has just come back with a cackling grin that makes the usual EV grin look like a frown. People always ask what it cost, then you can see them starting to try to justify the purchase in their heads....
 
after a conversation with Hal he mentioned me that if I use a 7-speed freewheel or similar there is no need of torque arm.
If I'm wrong or not remember well he can confirm it here.
 
after a conversation with Hal he mentioned me that if I use a 7-speed freewheel or similar there is no need of torque arm.
If I'm wrong or not remember well he can confirm it here.
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Depends what hub you are using and voltage/amps etc.. As I have said a few times, with my 9C I didn't need torque arms, but when I installed my HS35, I tightened the nuts right up, and the fit was snug as. But I spun my motor in my dropouts and blew my controller on the second ride. There is no question you should add torque arms if you are using a high power setup. It is because although the drop outs are massively chunky, they are only secured at one end in effect (ie, obviously they are open at their entry point) if that make sense, so all it takes is 2mm of movement (the 10 to 12mm difference between the two sides of a hub axle), and your axle is spinning. Anyone who wants to argue with me can take a look at my blown controller. The interesting thing is, the dropouts look fine still, it isn't that the axle cuts into the steel, it is that the top and bottom of each drop out bend out, even if it is just momentary flex, all it takes is the 2mm of flex and you are spinning.

As I said, I just wanted to warn people here, because my experience with my 9C was that the axle didn't budge, but all it took was the extra grunt of the HS35. It isn't a big deal to add torque arms anyway, because unlike other bikes with really cluttered drop outs, these straight horizontal drop outs easily lend themselves to attaching closed torque plates. It took me 30 mins to make up some sweet torque plates tonight, but then 2 hours to diagnose that the spinning of the axles had blown my controller.... doh....
 
in my opinion it's good to fit a torque arm just for safety reasons,no matter volts/amps etc,it's not a big cost at all
 
Wow, cheers for the info... I am about 24hours away from a test ride with my 45amp controller and HS3540 running 16 cell Lipo.

I really thought that this would be ok without Torque arms, think I might make up a Torque plate instead.

Had a few problems with my build, my Canondale Forks use a 1.5 inch head where all the other Downhill bikes use 1 1/8th inch head, so I've had to buy some secondhand 888 Bomber forks :) With the massive rear shock from my Canondale Gemini bike put on the Greyborg it is now silly high. The lowest seat position means I am on tip toe sitting on the bike and I'm not short 6ft with long legs.

Just means no one else shorter than me can ride it :)
 
Spacey said:
Wow, cheers for the info... I am about 24hours away from a test ride with my 45amp controller and HS3540 running 16 cell Lipo.

I really thought that this would be ok without Torque arms, think I might make up a Torque plate instead.

Had a few problems with my build, my Canondale Forks use a 1.5 inch head where all the other Downhill bikes use 1 1/8th inch head, so I've had to buy some secondhand 888 Bomber forks :) With the massive rear shock from my Canondale Gemini bike put on the Greyborg it is now silly high. The lowest seat position means I am on tip toe sitting on the bike and I'm not short 6ft with long legs.

Just means no one else shorter than me can ride it :)
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pics and vids please 8) 8) :mrgreen:
 
This conversation is not adding up to what I was thinking.
What twists is torque not speedo... And Hal was using 5305 with Hi amps with the first Grey. The HS has less torque than the HT that has less torque than a 5306 wich was lest torque than a 5305 wich has less torque than Hal big custom motor.
So im gessing we are missing something
 
I agree that torque is what twists, but I am just telling you what happened. With my 9C 8x8, the dropouts were fine, but with my HS35, with the nuts tightened on as tight as they would go, I spun the axle on my second ride. I can show you photos of my drop outs if you like. It is not that the axle cut into the steel, it is that the drops outs flexed (because one end is open ended obviously - that is why a closed torque plate is more appropriate/stronger), and the axle spun and caused my controller to blow. I don't know what else to say. That is what happened. There is no mystery. This isn't like an electrical issue where we can argue about what occured. I very tightly bolted an HS 35 into my dropouts (now it should be noted the axle was probably only 3/4 of the way down the dropout, not tight pressed against the closed end of the drop out (because I am running single speed, i needed to do this for chain tension), and I am sure being 1/4 of the way away from the tight end of the drop out didn't help me, as it would have made the flexing of the drop outs more substantial), but I tightened the nuts very very tight. on my second ride, I stopped suddenly, looked down, and my axles had rotated completely. End of story.

I just wanted to warn everyone else. If you don't want to listen to me, please go ahead and find out for yourself. Maybe if my axles had been pressed against the closed end of the dropout this wouldn't have happened (because the closed side would have offered more hold, and obviously as you move further back to the open end, you would get more flexing). But running single speed with no chain tensioner, I needed to do this.

As I said, it isn't a big issue, the dropouts really suit themselves to torque plates as there is no clutter in the way, I have already prepped torque plates for when my controller is repaired/replaced.
 
(edited - this was originally a double post)

Just to be clear on what I am saying, I am quite confident that if the wheel had been tight pressed against the end of the dropout, it probably would be fine, but It really was only 1/4 of the way back, at most, probably less (ie probably closer to the closed end). It is like when you attach a spanner to a nut, if it is tight against the nut it is fine, but if you move it back off a bit, it is much more likely (and often will) slip on the nut.

I can post photos of my drop outs with the axle in, when I installed the HS35, they were very very tight on the axle (I actually had to lighylu tap the wheel in with a piece of wood, as it was so tightly on), now there is a mm or so play, and that is obviously because the drop outs flexed.
 
Be cool Philis... at least your are already building... im still holding to get all my parts from Hal.
I wasnt blaming ya for the failure I was just elaborating about what I already saw with the the grey frame.
Indeed Hal´s motor have torque and I never heard of a failure with bolts touching the inner part of the dropout.
We are early adopters so your experience could lead to a new a swing arm with 4 holes in each side and two torque plates to be on the safe side.
Same applies to the canopies wich another member made some lovely venting that I heartedly think should be integrated in the design.
 
Got a few snaps of lacing my HS35 into a 24" 'THE' rim ..trickiest wheel build I have ever done.

First, drilled the rim's holes at a slight angle for 12 ga. spokes. Next, belt-sanded a small flat on each nipple to clear the raised center section of the rim -which is designed to prevent the dreaded snake-bite pinch flat.

110608 025.jpg

Cheers to Johnrobholmes for the expertly cut/threaded spokes 8)

After getting every nipple started on the spoke threads, I put a drop of boiled linseed oil on each exposed bit of thread, then let the wheel sit overnight to semi-coagulate. Dropped it into my truing stand the next day..

View attachment 1

..massaged it for a couple hours until it was tight, true (within .002") and stress relieved, replaced the plastic strip dohicky that fits into the slotted anti-pinch-flat thingamabob. Ended up with this!

110608 034.jpg

Me= :D
 
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