E-Scooter project build. 50 kw peak (video online page 4)

nieles said:
are you sure this is not a false positive hall combo (or you need 60 deg instead of 120 deg)

a motor makes more noise with a false positive, and cant deliver the power it should.

do you have the option to return the controller? because it doesn't perform like advertised?
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hi. i read somewhere it can destroy the halls when use wrong deg like 60 instead of 120 or otherwise. if thats not true i will give it a try!

i dont have the option to return i think but i will ask them again.
please somebody confirm i can carefully test it to change hall deg. i really wanna try that. it would explain alot and also why its soooo damn loud against my cheap chinese controller.
 
tomaj said:
So, I got an answer from Kelly and also from a guy who used those controllers in motorcycle racing.

This is the way how are Kelly controllers programmed. Controller is ramping down the current at low speeds. Probably for safety reasons. We can not change this settings.
It sux :roll: I will use the controller for other project and now try with Sevcon controller. I have already ordered Gen4 size6 :twisted: :shock:
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i still dont want to give up. but i also think there is no big chance to see the performance they advertised.

if everything doesnt help i will give them a very negativ feedback and buy another controller. use the kelly for other project too or just sell it. :evil:
 
by the way i just come back from a test run.
there was a crazy motorbike driver passed me with around 80 and i thought: "well why the heck not?!" :roll:
i punched it and because i already went like 45 the scooter took off like the rocketship i want from zero.
after short time i passed him with 110kph and then i smell the plastic. throttle was already off and i pulled over.
i opened the seat, smoke and fire deep inside my wiring . i just blew it out and remind myself to get a fire extinguisher in small size for my bike. some minutes later i found out what happend. my "safety selfmade battery protection" worked, but not as i expected and melted the whole fusebox because shit chinese quality. :roll:
as i tried to disconnect the battery, a small part of hot metal from ground went throught the plastik and get in contact with PLUS. i got a cool lightshow with flying sparks and plasma going on for some seconds and my cables for the DC converter melted together:
17871634ny.jpg


well...after all it was worth it because the face of that motorbiker when i fly by with my small electric scooter let me sleep good tonight. :D

tomorow i stop testing until my big battery arrives and prepare to wire it up. get a crimping tool and some more and better connectors+cable.
good night forum 8)
 
What is your total load (you+complete bike weight), with and without passenger? What is wheel OD, battery voltage, and no load rpm or speed? Also, is the area you ride very flat or do you have hilly terrain? I ask because these are important considerations in how far you can push a system for hard launches. Every start from a full stop begins at 0% efficiency, which means 100% heat, and at full throttle only current limiting can help you get to 50% efficiency prior to 50% of top speed.

A motor that is unstressed can be pushed with far higher current limits than an identical motor seeing heavier loads of weight and/or hills. Take it from a guy who weighs 120kg and lives in a mountainous area, yet still has the fastest electric bicycle in the world that can power right up scary steep mountain roads.
 
John in CR said:
What is your total load (you+complete bike weight), with and without passenger?
bike around 110kg i guess . not sure because its not done and i go on a weight later. ill let you know. my weight and passanger around 140-150kg.

What is wheel OD:
overall diameter is 1595mm. ich checked it yesterday because set up CA for speed sensor.

battery voltage:
voltage is fully charged 88,2V @ 21s lipo. 4,2V NEC pouch cells with 35Ah each in 21s/2p first. later 1p more to upgrate from 70-105Ah.


and no load rpm or speed?
no load speed i didnt check yet. amps around 9-10A which is normal i read for the 10kw motor and installed tire.

Also, is the area you ride very flat or do you have hilly terrain?
china is flat here in my area like most girls breast. no crazy hills or mountains here.

I ask because these are important considerations in how far you can push a system for hard launches. Every start from a full stop begins at 0% efficiency, which means 100% heat, and at full throttle only current limiting can help you get to 50% efficiency prior to 50% of top speed.
i understand why you ask and i dont wanna launch like an idiot every time i stand on a red light. i get gthis controller because my 100A test controller let me take off really good and quiet. so i think the much more powerful kelly should be even better and not 5 times worse, which ut is now.
most time i am going very slowly and carefully here with energy safing starts and smooth rides with using the regen to 95% to complete stop at red lights and max speeds around 45-50km/h.
but i didnt buy a 650$ controller to get 5 times worse performance than my 80-100$ testcontroller. thats why i TEST the bike before with a cheap controller. mske sure everything is fine and performance it like i expect it.
BUT IF I WANT LAUNCH FAST SOMETIMES, THAN I WANT THE THING TAKE OFF LIKE HELL AND LET ME PEE MY LITTLE PaNTS! :twisted:

A motor that is unstressed can be pushed with far higher current limits than an identical motor seeing heavier loads of weight and/or hills. Take it from a guy who weighs 120kg and lives in a mountainous area, yet still has the fastest electric bicycle in the world that can power right up scary steep mountain roads.
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i got you. before i build a AWD bike goes up to 130km/h and have performance to race cars in the city at red lights.
i made black marks on street even i go 60. full throttle let my front hub go nuts and it took off like NOTHING inever ride before. even motorbikes up to 500ccm.
i can safetly say this motor is most relaxed motor in china now. way overpowered for my driving style. i never got it over 40 degrees C. ehen i touch it its not even little warm.
 
UPDATE: i just changed the hall deg from 120 to 60. --->feeling no difference so how to find out what is right? :?: :idea:
 
update again: after calling factory boss of quanshun i made sure its 120° halls. i set back the value in kelly software.

i also play around with the smooth start ---> every setup results end in a softer unwanted start like we all expect. but i tried. turn it off again definetly have better performance

NOISE REDUCTION: also try it again just to make sure. it limiting peaks and make the motor a little softer. ---> DISABLE IT again.

i juggled around with the settings all morning. my setup from before is most powerful and i am very sure there is no other way in THIS software to make it any stronger.

that means i will try to give back the kelly controller as soon as possible and get a sevcon or other brand.

which brings me to my next question:
http://www.sevcon.com/media/2461/Gen4%20Aug%202013%20web.pdf does anybody from you guys out there have this controller and can tell us something about the performance? GEN4 SIZE6 for 72-80V 220A continuous and 660A peak
 
I have just bought this controller. Performance is outstanding.
But...programming is pain in the ass :cry: Controller is very sophisticated. You need CAN-USB interface, special Sevcon DVT software ( I still do not have it) and file with settings made excactly for your motor. Contact motor manufacturer if they can provide you this software.
 
my recommendation would be to not get the sevcon controller.

that controller most definitely wont run your motor out of the box! the controller needs an very specific profile loaded in to the controller to run your motor.
if you can get the profile, great! but if you start from scratch, it will most likely take you weeks if not months of learning/tuning to get running (all based on things i read on the forum, no real experience unfortunately)
 
Very cool project. In case you haven't seen it yet, here is a link to someone from MIT doing a build with a sevcon and how he programmed it. If you want to get your hands dirty and money And TIME are no object, dig in.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=52588


The others do provide good advice though. It will take tons of tweaking, but if you get it right, it would be the perfect controller for this powerful build. Otherwise I would suggest building up a 4110 24 or 36 fet (cheap and dirty way for lots of power):

https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37166&start=0


or looking into something like lebowski's diy controller with to-247 fets like the irfp4568 in the power stage.


One other options are a sine wave controller like the Max-e which uses to-247 package mosfets which have a lower switching time and higher amp limit:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37377


Should be reliable, clean, quiet, and feature-full, though may not deliver quite the power you are looking for (arounf 12kw).
 
Here is the link to the sales thread for that last one:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=58190


I have a small far less powerful moped project of my own and would love one of those if I could afford one as I recently beefed up the rear motor, though, it is so light it dos wheelies far too easily on a beefed up 12 fet 4110 controller. Maybe this summer when I work more and don't have tuition to pay. Here is the link to my thread, if you're interested:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=52956&start=25


Hope those links help. Can't wait to see what comes of your project.
 
UPDATE:

the battery should arrive today. but factory still balancing and checking it. send out tomorrow. so it arrive probably day after tomorrow. :evil:

yesterday i cant refuse to make my first longer distance test in the night with very good results:

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this morning i repeat the same ride and it starts to get little wet.
17898184fl.jpg


17898185cv.jpg


i learned: careful on the throttle because the scooter got sideways and the rear tried to overtake me :mrgreen:
now i just need to find a way to cheat the kelly and ignore the low speed ramp down current thing. maybe we can hack it so the kelly think all time its already on higher speeds and give more take off current?

also good news about my test controller. i will get my 24FET repaired and improved back tomorrow. maybe i will change it and throw the kelly in trash. will a really crazy oversized cooling help to make it stand the 100-120A continuous?
 
A fan blowing along the side where the fets attach with a makeshift duct and possibly one blowing through the controller as long as it is in a fairly dry part of the bike. Just keep an eye on the temps and see what it can maintain. If you want to get even more sustained power, make a custom water block or larger heat sink milled down for along the side. Also, replace the crappy thermal transfer tape with kapton tape and arctic silver and possible replace the aluminum bars with copper for better heat transfer.
 
hey steam25, first off - amazing build and sharp looking ride. I almost switched to that same model, (either that or the BWS), but so far have just stuck working on my clone yamaha vino (or little turtle as you probably know it here in China). Have resisted the urge to get a nice as bike as you given all the thefts that go on here in Shanghai but seeing this makes it tempting!

Anyway not to hijack your thread at all, but since I'm also in China think you might be able to point me in the right direction on my build. I really appreciate any resources to read, or tips based on my problems below.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=58760

I'm really green when it come to fixing up my own bike and have been letting (unfortunately) the shops do most of the work for me. Think I'm getting the short-end of the stick on the parts I got. Currently I'm on a 2000w hub motor (says 48v2000watt, should that matter) and 2000 watt controller, 60v30ah LiFePO4. It doesn't quite rocket the way i want to, and actually sputter and groans at under 5mph.

In fact the bike felt more responsive 0-15 on my on my old 1500 watt controller and 800 watt motor.

In any case keep riding and sharing your project!
 
hi buddy!

yeah i can definetly help you out there. and i have a good friend living in shanghai, also have some little knowledge about these bikes.
give me a PN. we can talk about it and i try to help you.

UPDATE:

today i had a disaster day! battery should arrive monday. now its friday and i would NOT even have it now if i didnt explode today because anger and went to the post station myself to pick up my battery, which lays there 2 days because there driver is ill.
i dragged the 2 heavy boxes to my house and figured out that the factory made alooooot mistakes i need correct now. biggest one was that they use a 60A BMS which should be only for charging and soldered everything together so it also used for DISCHARGE! :evil:
i thought: OK! before i open everything i will give it a quick try because they cant be TAHT stupid after we confirm about 1000 times that i dont want discharge over BMS. after hours of working and cursing about there mistakes, resolder cables, use shrink tube for connections instead of rubbish ass tape like beginners i finally got it. battery is inside scooter and i let the motor spin some RPMs. then i figured out that 60A limit and BMS shut off power. :evil:
so i ripped everything open again and resolder the main power. make the BMS only charge.
discharge directly from battery now.
the pack itself was poorly wrapped in some plastik fiberglas cover shit with about 100 rolls of tape. i ripped that off too because they ignore all my advice to size and wrapped it so thick it cant fit in my bike anymore.
the BMS box is a joke and i am too embarresed to show that here. i will first go and get a real plastik box where i can install the 2 fans and make the spagetti away...

even i need to fix alot cable shit now, at least battery is inside scooter and its charging now with my quickndirty DIY 25$ (88,2V -12A) charger.
i dont dare to let it charge overnight yet. tomorrow i will hopefully get everything wired up and can let you guys come with me together on gopro video for a short testride! so after all a succesfully day. and as my father like to say: it can not be sunshine every day :mrgreen:

tomorrow gopro cam test ride. whooooooooooooo want to see that?
 
I will cry with the prices, 100$ 24 fet, 25$ 82v 12A charger ! why we get everything 4X. I think you must start a store and charge 2X !
 
uuuhm...the charger is self build. you can do that for 50$ maybe?
is very easy.

EDIT: and its a 88,2V charger for 21s 88V not 20s 84V :D :wink:

a real 84V 10A charger also cost here around 120$
and just because parts here are cheaper means not i get everything together for some hundred bucks... :cry:

later i will build a DIY 88,2V charger which should be able to charge with 35A.
maybe 60A. around 100$ i think
 
hi guys.
i just came back from the first try with new battery. looking amazing...very less voltage drop even under full power. i quick strap the gopro 3+ on my helmet.

if you interested i will upload the video from test?



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thats a short mostly uncutted video from my first test ride. about 15 minutes.



everything seems to be perfect. expept poor kelly power at start. but holy shit that thing is fast when go 40 and hit full throttle... :shock: :shock:
very nice to ride now. overtake cars is more like fly by and try get easy on the brakes when you are already too fast like most time :mrgreen:
the 99km/h limit from CA kick in so hard, i thought somebody jumped on my brake. how to disable it by the way? if i set 00 i cant go at all. and 99 is too slowly for this scooter. it WANT go faster :mrgreen: :twisted:
scooter is very silent and you can hear just the wind. also goes like the wind. quiet happy with the result for now and easy to handle.
new lipo batterys are pure joy! less voltage drop until now and even after these 15-20 min mostly full power joyride still around 85V. well that sounds promising. much better than lifepo packs i had before.
enough said!

now lean back, join me on my first battery test and enjoy the video http://youtu.be/difj5ONV30o
 
You have my admiration. Wicked Build.
how to disable it by the way? if i set 00 i cant go at all. and 99 is too slowly for this scooter.
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I might be blowing smoke but if you have your CA is set for KPH that = 61.5 MPH. I think if you change to MPH in the settings you can go 99 mph before limit kicks in.

Experts please don't flame me if i'm wrong.
 
i also think about that. but i like kph. here in china is everything kph. why they make it like this so you cant disable it? like put on 00 and then it would be off.
the scooter speedo is not very correct.
 
Yeah that's a bummer. Is there anyway to input more than 99 amps into the CA or is that just the display limit? I know you have to be running more than 99 amps at some point. I have gone up to 110 battery amps sometimes during hard acceleration even though the CA has a 99 amp limit on the display during setup. EDIT Just saw you have an AMAX reading of 221.9 so the 99 amp limit during setup must mean nothing.
 
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