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ebike controller

bentech

10 mW
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
26
Location
Montréal, Canada
Can someone tell me if i understand correctly how the rated amps of a brushed controller work please ??

If i get a 24 volt 28 amp ebike brushed controller is it mean that the motor that is drive by this controller
will never generate more than 28 amps even if i stall it ?? Or its because the controller will burn if the motor pull more than
28 amps ??
 
Can someone tell me if i understand correctly how the rated amps of a brushed controller work please ??

when a controller is rated for 28 amp, is it mean that the motor that is drive by this controller
will never generate more than 28 amps. even if i stall it ?? Or its because the controller will burn if the motor pull more than
28 amps ??
 
It means the controller is designed to deliver upto 28amps to the load (motor).

Whether this is a "continuous" or "peak" rating simply determines for what length of time it can deliver 28A.

If the load tries to draw more than 28A (say a very powerful motor), the controller will overheat and burn out unless it has "current limiting". Current limiting will throttle the current delivered by the controller to ensure it doesn't exceed 28A.

So if your motor is rated to draw 28A under normal load and you stall it, it will attempt to draw several times that current from the controller. If the controller is rated for 28A, unless the controller has fast-acting current limiting, the controller will fail.

You must understand that a motor will draw whatever power it wants. The controller will only attempt to meet that demand. That is why it is important to match a motor and controller carefully.
 
You could just bump your other thread instead of launching a new one. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58413

You linked to a fleabay cheap controller in one of your other threads. It was rated at 24V, 500W and said to have a limit of 28A. Not much else is known about it except a cheap price.

So at 24V from the battery, 500W requires 20.8A. Right? Just use's Ohm's Law extension; P = V * I. So 20.8A is the rated battery current for the controller. One would expect the controller to operate at 20.8A or less of battery current for long periods of time without overheating.

The 28A value is a current limit or maximum current. The controller allows current in excess of its rated value for short durations. This is experienced during accelerations or going uphill among other reasons. The controller will impose this limit. It accomplishes this by sensing the current and reducing the output voltage (to the motor) in order not to exceed the limit value.

Since the current limit of 28A is greater than the rated 20.8A, one can not expect the controller to run very long at that condition, usually less than a minute, but this depends on the temperature at which you start. A good controller will sense the temperature of its critical parts and cutback further this limit current when it gets too hot or simply turn off until it cools down, thereby preventing overheat damage. A cheap controller may just fail.

All of the above just concerns the controller. It says nothing about the battery or the motor. If you have a 500W, 24V rated motor it will likely survive in good shape with that controller. If your motor is rated lower, you may be able to overheat it with that controller.

You had even another thread recently about the motor where you were looking for the maximum current. So I'll talk about that a bit. Let's continue to use the numbers from above. Say the motor is rated for 500W at 24V. Then rated current is 20.8A. But the maximum current the motor can draw when 24V is applied to its terminals is much greater. The maximum current occurs at stall (zero RPM) and is called stall current and can be calculated by dividing the applied voltage by the motor resistance. Let's pick a number for the motor resistance: 0.24Ω. So if you applied 24V to the motor to launch your bike from standstill, the motor would draw 100A at first. Without a controller between the battery and motor, that 100A would come from the battery.

Now when you put that controller in there, and launch at WOT (wide open throttle), the controller will prevent 100A from being drawn from the battery. It will limit the current to 28A.

Now; here's where it gets messy. Is the 28A current limit battery current or motor current? They are not the same. Motor current is always greater than (or equal to) battery current. The controller works by reducing the voltage from the battery. Neglecting the small loss in the controller, use a power balance of power-in equals power-out of the controller. So battery power (Vb * Ib) = motor power (Vm * Im). Solve for motor current: Im = (Vb/Vm * Ib). Since Vm is always less than (or equal to) Vb, Im is always greater than (or equal to) Ib.

If the controller current limit of 28A refers to motor current, then motor current and battery current will never exceed 28A.

If the controller current limit of 28A refers to battery current, then motor current can exceed 28A but battery current will stay below 28A. So what is the maximum motor current in this case? You can find that if you know the motor resistance. Im = √(Ib*Vb/Rm) So for a motor with resistance of 0.24Ω, a 24V battery, controller with 28A battery current limit, maximum motor current will be 52.9A.

This method I used ignores battery droop (due to internal resistance) and controller inefficiency. And as you found out in a previous thread, motor resistance is a difficult parameter to pinpoint. Long answer to a short question, but I hope you understand a bit better. My history deals with larger EVs and controllers in that field. Those have always used motor current for current limit specifications. I was surprised to find that controllers for bike motors sometimes use battery current limit. Hence my explanation on both methods. That fleabay controller you showed did not specify which.
 
Ok, so the motor will draw what it need to run.
Thats mean if i climb a hill and the motor pull 40 amps for a long period of time, the controller will overheat and
burn unless it have current protection or heat protection. like you said, using the omh law, the controller i'm looking
for is 24V 500W. So safe for 20.8A continious. That mean the 28A rated spec mentioned in the add is probably the
internal current limiter protection ??

Is there a place where i can buy a digital ammeter for ebike that i can put on my handlebar to see in real time
the amps draw by the system ?? The only thing i have found is a Cycle Analyst.

Thanks for your time !!
It very appreciate.
 
bentech said:
That mean the 28A rated spec mentioned in the add is probably the
internal current limiter protection ??
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/e-bike-Motor-Brush-Speed-Controller-for-Electric-Bike-Bicycle-Scooter-24V-500W-/171271528995?hash=item27e0942223&vxp=mtr
I would assume 28A is the controller current limit. But for $14.50 including shipping from China, it is a crap shoot :wink:
 
bentech said:
Can someone tell me if i understand correctly how the rated amps of a brushed controller work please ??

If i get a 24 volt 28 amp ebike brushed controller is it mean that the motor that is drive by this controller
will never generate more than 28 amps even if i stall it ?? Or its because the controller will burn if the motor pull more than
28 amps ??

Controllers are all different, not all ratings are given using the same method by different manufacturers or sellers, some miss important words out, some may even over specify things. It could be peak, or continuous. Ask the seller. Without knowing exactly which controller you are talking about no one here can tell you with any authority-perhaps giving the make and model here might find someone who knows about that particular controller, but perhaps not? Have you tried a web search?
 
bentech said:
Is there a place where i can buy a digital ammeter for ebike that i can put on my handlebar to see in real time
the amps draw by the system ??

Get one of these for $24 .. it will tell you all you need., Max / min... volts, amps, Watts, Ahrs, run time , etc etc.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__Turnigy_130A_Watt_Meter_and_Power_Analyzer.html
T-wattmeter.jpg
 
Hillhater said:
bentech said:
Is there a place where i can buy a digital ammeter for ebike that i can put on my handlebar to see in real time
the amps draw by the system ??

Get one of these for $24 .. it will tell you all you need., Max / min... volts, amps, Watts, Ahrs, run time , etc etc.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__Turnigy_130A_Watt_Meter_and_Power_Analyzer.html
T-wattmeter.jpg


Wow, thats exactly what i was looking for !!
Thanks.
 
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