Ebike road race bike: Questions and build info

[Thud]

I'm curious how they come up the the 11hp limit?

That is the advertised HP of the Morini s5 motor. It is a high quality engine, popular for powering Bikes....Originaly I think it was supposed to be the Highwater mark for powering bicycles on the race track.(the fastest of the fast---limited to 50cc )

The Idea was to define the classes with engine type & HP ratings, over displacment.

Old gasoline Huffer's like myself ussaly have to be forced to learn how to calculat watts (for finite engine analisys) The common man still thinks purely in terms of horspower. even if its in fractions.

 

[SoSauty]

Yup, Vanilla Ice, you sound pretty easy going, Hah hah,

The water cooled Morinis, the most powerful common bike kit at the time of motored bike conception, are rated about 11hp, thus the limit. Most gear heads will be wearing floppy parachute clothes. Lycras

Jay,
Check out a few reviews on MTBR. SunRingle is generally reasonably priced, mid-quality with a wide selection. 29mm wide will fit 2 to 2.5" tires in a standard mtn bike frame. Any wider rim causes problems w/ cantilever rear brakes. That changes if you mod/build your own frame (which sounds time consuming).

Lots of other reviews in MTBR as well.
http://www.mtbr.com/cat/tires-and-wheels/rim/pls_139crx.aspx
AvidBB7 203mm brakes are capable and reliable for mid weight motored bike builds.
Lyens' controllers are top notch though you'll need hall sensors to run reasonable 3000+ rpm fitted in your motor.

Keep us posted.

 

[Jay64]

I was actually looking into some Sun rims. I went down to my local bike shop to see what they carried, and that was one of the few that they mentioned. Turns out they don't deal with too many double walled DH rims.....not much call for that here in Florida! :lol: :lol: I was thinking of using disk brakes, but after talking with different people, I don't know if the rear disk will fit if I end up doing a drive sprocket on the left side for the motor. Does anyone know if I can use a left side drive sprocket and a disk brake? I don't know if I just misunderstood, but it sounds like the left spocket attaches in place of the disk brake, is that right?
I will definately do some research through MTBR.

 

[drewjet]

With 26" wheel, 90 volts, 75kv, and a top speed of 55 MPH you would need a reduction of 9.1:1, 12 tooth on the motor and 109 on the wheel. Assume to over shoot by about 20% and you come up with 7.7:1. That is easily doable with 35 or 219 chain of 12 on the motor and 93 on the rear wheel.

If you find that the motor overheats then you will need to reduce the gearing or rewind the motor to a lower KV.

I don't think you need a disc brake on the rear wheel, cantilever will give you all you need, the front is the most important.

 

[Jay64]

The cvt is where these things have all the advantage over the single speed 2-strokes....

Do these $100 HF engines come with the CVT, or is that an aftermarket part that they are adding on? If it does come with the engine, then it sounds like it definately would be worth buying the engine, pulling off the CVT for my build and then chucking the gasser. If not, then were are these guys getting an aftermarket CVT without spending a lot of money?

Jay, one of Manics sprocket mounts might be the ticket...it doesn't freewheel but will get you into 40 class chain for the drive line.
& if your bringing an Agni for e-bike racing....I must have it all wrong LOL.

It sounded like they had a freewheel option also when I talked to them, but I might be wrong. I'm gonna try and go down there next week and see what they got. They actually aren't that far from me, I could ride one of my ebikes down there. I don't have any idea if the agni is right for e-bike racing, but I do have all the components to run it already, so it would be really easy to test it out. Never know till you check, right? Hell, for the price of just a controller for the colossus, I can almost buy 4 Nano-Tech 6s5ah 35-70c packs, that would be half my battery needs right there. Definately worth looking into.

Drewjet, sooooo what kind of gearing would I need if I want to go 65mph? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Harold in CR]

Aren't those CVT's used on Go carts ??

 

[drewjet]

You would need 2.8:1, a 13 on the motor and a 37 rear. But I doubt that the colassus would handle that, the agni, no problem.

What is the KV on the Agni?

 

[Thud]

Jay, those engines come bare bones.but the cvt can be found here:
http://www.affordablegokarts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=A&Product_Code=GTC100*&Category_Code=PCJ
and here:
http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/218353A.html

I find settling in on a design is the hardest part of any build

been looking long & hard at the bully sitting in the basment.........I think I will do a resurection.

 

[Jay64]

I believe the kv for the Agni is 71.

 

[Jay64]

http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/218353A.html

So that one claims that the system engages at 2200 rpm. Would that be able to be adjusted to engage at a different rpm? I know gwhy! was talking about doing some adjustments on his CVT equipped scooter. Would 2200 be an ideal engagement for an EV motor?

 

[Thud]

Hey J,
I am sure you can manipulate the weights & or springs in the clutch to effect engadgment points.

 

[Jay64]

Would you agree that the engagement should come in earlier than 2200rpm?

 

[Thud]

For an ellectric motor application Jay, I would think 800 rpm would be plenty...(lower may even work depending on the available tourque of your motor choice)

Just enought to get the motor out of the stalled condition at the start will be a huge burdon lifted off the controller.

 

[Jay64]

cool, I was thinking something like that would be more acceptable, but I have never done any work/testing in that regard, so I wasn't sure. Thanks for the input. Dang, now my mind is running in all sorts of directions for a build. What I am currently thinking of is nothing like I origianlly planned. I might still end up with the original setup, but from a racer stand point, I'm thinking in a totally different direction now. :lol: I'm gonna have to decide on something fast and get to building. I might just start building a couple of different frames and test components on each of them to see what plan works best. Damn, this is gonna get pricey. I might have to start getting EV sponsors now. :lol:

 

[Thud]

hehe,
I did mention getting a final design settled is the hard part!
there are so many variables you can design forever......If you have any sponcers looking to build a team I am more than ready to sign on. Just tell me where to send the resume' LOL!

 

[Jay64]

I don't have an EV sponsor yet. I do have a few ICE sponsors, gotta see which ones will be willing to come over to the dark side with me. :lol: :lol: Actually, October is the month for getting all ICE sponsorships finalized for 2012, so I might see if I can roll both of them into one package! :lol: Maybe I should bring some of my guys up to the Grange race and get them excited about it. I would love to be able to put a team of ES riders together, but that would increase the sponsorship budget by a lot. I don't even know if I can get sponsors for the EV racing yet, and if I do, I need to make sure that I can get enough for my racing. If I can haggle the sponsors to give more for a bigger team, I will definately bring you guys on board. I personally would like to see the unlimited race be the top race. If we could get 5 or so guys w >11hp bikes out there really ripping it up, that would be something to really get sponsors psyched about it. But if we can just push the limits of <11hp bikes to some really exciting speeds, that would be pretty cool too. Maybe I can get Danny Eslick to come out and ride one of the bikes. See how far he can get the bike backed in on the Grange corners. He is incredible to watch on a supermoto there. This is a quick vid of him "playing" at the Long Beach supermoto.
[youtube]mZflrx3iQ6M&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[Jay64]

hmm, the youtube code didn't seem to work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZflrx3iQ6M&feature=related

 

[adrian_sm]

[youtube]mZflrx3iQ6M[/youtube]

[youtube]mZflrx3iQ6M[/youtube]

 

[Jay64]

Ha ha, thanks. Wait a minute. It said to enter the characters after the 'watch?v=' it didn't say anything about not putting the 'feature=related' stuff in there. :lol: :lol:

 

[Jay64]

Ha ha, thanks. Wait a minute. It said to enter the characters after the 'watch?v=' it didn't say anything about not putting the 'feature=related' stuff in there. :lol: :lol:

Thanks for catching that for me.

 

[wineboyrider]

Aren't those CVT's used on Go carts ??

That engine looks like a chinese gy6 scooter/go cart motor...? The stock gy6 engine which is 150c is rated at around 11 hp ?
There are water cooled ones and air cooled...?

 

[Jay64]

Now I'm thinking of just taking a shit bike I found in my neighbors trash and fixing that up as best I can. Save the tidal force for a nice clean build. I'm thinking this build is gonna get nasty. :lol: :lol:

 

[Thud]

thats the spirit!

 

[Jay64]

That engine looks like a chinese gy6 scooter/go cart motor...? The stock gy6 engine which is 150c is rated at around 11 hp ?
There are water cooled ones and air cooled...?

Yeah, but apparently these motors are 212cc and only rated at 6hp. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Screw it, I should just get one of these, they are only $100????, and send it to my ICE engine builder. See how fast we can go on a 6hp motor.
Anyone got a link to one of these? Is this the one they are using????
http://www.harborfreight.com/predat...d-for-all-states-except-california-68120.html

 

[Jay64]

thats the spirit!

My race brain just kicked in. Now I'm thinking of all kinds of shit. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: