eeesickle - 500w Cyclone (Warning: Pic Overload)

eeesickle

100 µW
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
7
Location
Kalgoorlie, Western Australia
G'day all

Long time lurker, first time electric bike kit owner. Nice place here. I'll start by blaming AussieJester for 'sparking' my interest in electric bicycles. :)

I was unsure on whether to go for a hub drive (hopefully easier install), or chain drive (can use the bike's gears) for quite some time and in the end Cyclone Taiwan's current US$458 deal (http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-A.htm) for a 500w 3 chainwheel complete kit won out. The kit arrived very quickly and, for the most part, was very well packed. The motor plug that goes to the throttle was broken, but useable.

The kit is to be fitted to my trusty, neglected, 21 speed, 10 year old, no-name Mountain Bike... Nothing too special about it, but with the combined brake and trigger shifters I can see an issue with the included bulky throttle.

DSC00581.jpg


Disclaimer - Before I go on please note, this is my first time playing with bikes, let alone e-bikes, and therefore I have absolutely no idea what I am doing. If you notice something is wrong (could be done better) from the photos, please let me know. :)

I started by using the included crank removal tool to take the cranks off. Remove the caps, undo a nut and then screw the dark piece of the crank removal tool into the crank and then tighten the chrome part up. As you tighten it more the crank will eventually come away from the shaft.

DSC00583.jpg


Next was the removal of the left side bottom bracket. I didn't have the correct tool, so I used a hammer and a screwdriver to knock the tab on the outer ring anti-clockwise to undo it. The rest pretty much undid by hand.

DSC00585.jpg


This next picture compares the new spindle with the old. I should've lined it up better, but you can see the extra length out to the left (top) side allowing clearance for the motor.

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The next pic shows the old right side bottom bracket. Dopey me forgot this would be left hand thread, so you turn it right to undo it.

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Here is the new right side bottom bracket going in. I put grease all in the threads and on the body. I'm not sure how necessary that is though. Should I have used some sort of Loctite (thread lock) instead?

DSC00590.jpg


With the right side screwed all the way in, this is how the left side sits. I am a bit concerned by this as there is a gap between the left bracket and the bearing of the right side which would potentially get full of gunk. Should I be worried? :shock:

DSC00594.jpg


After all the bad things I've heard about the Cyclone freewheel I decided to put a bit extra oil around the edge. Not sure if this will help or hinder it though. I had planned on getting an ENO freewheel, but I'll see how long this one lasts first. So I screwed the right side crank into the freewheel/chainwheel set and fitted it up, using the bolts to drive the cranks onto the tapered shaft. I am guessing the crank and freewheel will tighten up more after a bit of riding. Thoughts?

DSC00596.jpg


Motor mount time. I tapped the bottom bottom thread of the drink bottle mount to suit the motor mount's grub screw and also drilled a hole so the grub screw underneath could go into the steel frame.

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Like most of my projects, this took a lot longer than I expected and after starting at lunch time it was now getting dark and I was getting frustrated and impatient. Sorry, but no pics of the actual motor install here. I took some links out of the chain and fitted it up. The motor seems to be sitting forward more than I expected, but the chain alignment doesn't seem too bad.
Screwed the 2 screws into the battery pack and clamped it to the seat post. It seems very solid.
Fitted the throttle up and, as expected, where I wanted the throttle impeded on the gear trigger action. I'll see if I can move it, or swap it out for a different style of throttle.
Next was all the wiring to be run along the frame. Still some tidy up work to be done.

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Those last pics were taken after my initial test ride. I don't have a watt meter to show how much battery was used, another thing on my list of wants. I only went for a few minutes just to see what it was like and whether there were any issues going to raise their heads. Thankfully it all seemed to be a success. I plan to have a better ride tomorrow.

Still to go.
Tidy wiring, fit heat sinks to the motor, adjust the throttle position. Get a watt meter. Have fun... :)

Like I said at the start, please let me know if you see any mistakes I have made so I can make my bike as reliable as possible.

Cheers
Randal

PS All the pics I have from this build are available at http://s806.photobucket.com/albums/yy343/eeesickle/
 
Thanks for posting this Randal, the series of pics you have used are great! If someone were asking me about a Cyclone set-up, I would use this thread to explain. Are you in Aus? if yes, what part?
 
Thanks for your kind comments, spinningmagnets. :)

Even though I wasn't overly sure what I was doing, I thought I'd try and document it as best I could. Home is Kalgoorlie,a mining city, Western Australia (600km east of Perth,the capital city).

Cheers
Randal
 
Cheers, competitions. You asked for install pics in your thread, so there ya go. :)

The kit is exactly as supplied from Cyclone-tw.com except for the extra hard case for the 24v/10ah LiFePO4 battery.
There's (bad) pics of it laid out on my table at http://s806.photobucket.com/albums/yy343/eeesickle/, but the pic from Cyclone-tw.com shows it better. I'll itemise it...

What's in the box.
Motor pre-fitted with gear
Chain for motor
Heat sink fins for the motor.
Motor Chain Tensioner - Not sure of the tech term, but the provided plastic cog uses the supplied Spring and Cable Tie to provide tension to keep the chain on the motor and main chainwheel gears.
3 ring chain wheel fitted with Dicta freewheel for the cranks.
2 x cranks
Twist throttle with battery level LEDs and on/off switch.
Rubber handlebar grips
Cartridge type bottom bracket
Bottom bracket tool, crank removal tool, freewheel tool and chain breaker
24v 10ah Battery (extra US$20 for hard case like mine)
2ah Charger
Nuts and bolts (I ended up with 4 nuts left over that I'm still trying to work out what they're for. Maybe for external controller?)

Tools I used.
Spanners and adjustable spanner
Drill
Tap
Electrical tape.
Allen keys for grub screws and the throttle grip.
Sockets to do up the cranks
Philips Screwdriver to do up battery mount.
Cable Ties
Ummm. I think that was it.

200W500W3pcs-chainwheel-com.jpg

Pic courtesy of Cyclone-tw.com

Cheers
Randal
 
cyclonealloybattrelocation.JPG

A suggestion for more centralised positioning of the battery weight leading to better handling. You have an uncommonly large frame triangle so it looks like it may actually fit. Alternatively for even lower positioning you could flip the battery enclosure vertically from the position pictured above, clamp it to the bottom of the seat-tube so sits on an angle above the down-tube. However you would have to remove your front derailleur (not needed anymore anyway) and trim the excess length off the motor bracket bolts.



PS: if you miss your previous gear range lost through the fixed front chainring necessitated with the Cyclone kit; Look into installing a SRAM Dual Drive hub. You'll get your entire gear range back for a truly versatile goat-track climbing/velodrome hammering go-anywhere machine.

Oh and put some silicone sealant around the grommet where the wires enter the motor. These motors downfall are moisture getting inside.
 
Very nice PhotoChop, boostjuice! Thanks, I never thought of putting it there!
You are right, it is a large frame. I requested it when I bought it many years ago. :)

This is how I have it fitted up at the moment, but after your suggestion I think I will look into changing it.

On charge after a quick 4km ride...
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Before I went on a ride I was looking over the bike and pedalling around the back yard. It just didn't sound right and on close inspection the alignment was causing the chain to grab on the gears. I decided that a 3mm spacer would bring the motor pretty much back into line, so I knocked up this...

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I didn't want to just add a couple of washers, as I thought the motor needed as much support as possible. And after fitting it I am very happy. There is no longer a grabby chain noise. The only other change I would make is to screw in the chain tensioner slightly, as it seems to force the chain over slightly as it feeds to the main chainwheel. Having said that, it ran very well under power during my ride.

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First Ride Impressions

So for my first ride I rode 2km out, with half of it being a straight, slight climb. At a steady pace this ride normally takes my unfit self about 12 minutes, and 10 or so back. This time, for the first kilometre I manually pedalled and then half to 3/4 throttled up the hill while pedalling as well (Top ring 6th gear), speed was 25-30kph. The e-bike smile was huge! :D Time for the trip one way 5 min 40 sec.

I got back and the motor felt a bit hot. I'll fit the cooling fins once I have the appropriate heat transfer paste. I'm happy with how it rides, although the weight is noticeable, and I can see boostjuice's idea helping with that.

Cheers
Randal

PS competitions - Silver part of the battery box is 36cm x 8.5 x 8.5, and it will fit in my frame, so thats where it will be going. :)
 
Great to see you took the plunge mate & welcome to the forum :D That is one Hell of a first post too! Excellent installation with great documentation that will be very useful for the newbie installing the Cyclone kits! Also good to see you went with the 500watt...

For your monitoring you could grab a Turnigy Watt Meter

T-wattmeter.jpg


They are only $US25 and by all accounts from fellas here that have grabbed them already work well, will save you a few bucks over a WattsUp meter and a heap over a Cycle Analyst.

eeesickle said:
The e-bike smile was huge! :D

hehehe, never seems to get old either i have found...You sound like your hooked now too hehehe...sorry LoL

Couple of things...I would change the battery location as suggested (IIRC you said you would be doing this, good move ;) ) Will make handling better IMO...Also yes the ENO freewheels are the shot grab one when $$$ allow dont want to be getting stuck 5-10km's from home with a rooted freewheel in the heat out your way haha.. If your ever down the City we shall have to hook up for a chat and an ale...

Top Job ...

KiM
 
Thanks for the kind words, KiM! :)
I've been looking at the Turnigy Watt Meter, but they always seem to be out of stock according to the site.
The ENO freewheel is high on the 'needs list' too!

Okay, does anyone see a problem with mounting my battery box in the following way? The BMS would be down at the bottom and from my ride today there seems to be some movement from inside, so some packing may be required. This first way makes it a bit easier to get at my drink bottle and I guess the centre of gravity is lowered a bit more too.

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The next way would be perfect if it ran straight along the frame, but unfortunately it doesn't. It also impededes on removal of my drink bottle more.

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Cheers
Randal
 
Agreed. Keeping that weight as low as possible is worth the effort. Time to trim those overly long motor bracket bolts and tap some new threaded holes for your drink bottle holder :wink:

Unless....I suppose there wouldn't be enough clearance for this arrangement?
alloycasemod2.JPG
 
Thanks for the specs Randall.


I agree with KiM, if you don't need the bottle while riding, another spot would be behind the back reflector.


The freewheel everyone says is lacking on the Cyclone - just wondering if it's a straight swap for the Eno, ie correct threads etc.?
Wouldn't the Elation have the same freewheel as the Cyclone too?


Looks like the 500W Cyclone 'New Year' special has been removed from their webpage.
 
competitions said:
The freewheel everyone says is lacking on the Cyclone - just wondering if it's a straight swap for the Eno, ie correct threads etc.?
Wouldn't the Elation have the same freewheel as the Cyclone too?

For the Sick bike parts unit - same thread, same ID, same bolt pattern. however the WI unit has a taper-stepped bore and as a result,smaller diameter removal tool notches. This necessitates the use of a different FW removal tool .
Regular type
BPC109483.jpg

ENO type
D_325%20WISFW7.jpg




Elation use a different type of freewheel crank setup. Im not sure if they are a tandem bike intended unit adapted for ebike use or if they are custom made. They do look to be better quality, but Elation won't sell them individually. Ive asked :cry:
 
Great post Randal, was looking at the cyclone kit but wasn't really sure how hard it was to install. Your pics have helped a lot - really got me thinking about doing a cyclone build now.
 
boostjuice, quit giving me options that look good... hahaha
I'll lop off the motor mount bolts and see if it will go close to fitting that way.
Thanks very much for the info about the ENO. I didn't realise the flywheel tools would be different.

Cheers, kefa! :) Hopefully all of the pics will help a bit for the newbies, like I was (I'm so experienced now :roll: ). Seriously, if I can fit it, then anyone can! It probably won't be a direct bolt on, but it wasn't quite as difficult as I expected, even if it took longer than I thought it would.

competitions - Geez, that didn't take long for Cyclone to pull the special down. Must've sold a lot of kits already. I wonder how many new kit owners will find their way here to harrass the knowledge base! :-D

Cheers
Randal
 
Hi BoostJuice

The eLation system uses a sprag clutch for the freewheel. Unlike a ratchet type clutch that will have 3-4 'fingers' to lock the bearing, the sprag clutch has upward of 100.

More expensive, but more robust.

Cheers
Allan
 
elation said:
Hi BoostJuice

The eLation system uses a sprag clutch for the freewheel. Unlike a ratchet type clutch that will have 3-4 'fingers' to lock the bearing, the sprag clutch has upward of 100.

More expensive, but more robust.

Cheers
Allan

it would be truely great to get rid of the annoying 'tick-tick-tick' of freewheel cranks when under exclusive motor power on BB driven setups. A year ago I designed up a one-off custom cam/roller-clutch based freewheel crank adapter ring. I gave up on the idea because all the reasonably sized sprague/cam clutches i could find were either lacking in torque rating or waaaaayyyy too expensive. I figure you want at least 400Nm of holding torque to accomodate shock loading when jumping on the pedals. What model of sprag clutch does your design utilise?
 
CSK 40 would probably be sufficient? That's rated at 260Nm to 325Nm depending on the manufacturer. Peak torque is twice rated torque. As you say though, more bulky, heavier and expensive than a freewheel...

I don't see the point of comparing the number of pawls in a freewheel with the number of sprags in a sprag clutch...?
 
Miles said:
I don't see the point of comparing the number of pawls in a freewheel with the number of sprags in a sprag clutch...?

Thought it might be a way to allow the average Joe to understand the concept of spreading load.

But hey, each to their own. I 'll kick back and continue to read posts about failed ratchet bearings.

Cheers
Allan
 
elation said:
Thought it might be a way to allow the average Joe to understand the concept of spreading load.

But hey, each to their own. I 'll kick back and continue to read posts about failed ratchet bearings.
I think it just confuses things and has no relevance to the torque handling capability...
 
Miles said:
I think it just confuses things.

Not sure how providing more knowledge, specific to why a component is more superior, would be more confusing?

Always open to better explanations. More than happy to hear another take on the difference between ratchet and sprag bearings.

AussieJester said:
How many ENO freewheels you heard about failing?

Yeah, but it would be better not have to replace with after market item to start with, and they are not that cheap; a 'claimed' aspect when comparing to Sprag.

But again, each to there own. Have not heard of any Sprags failing either :)


Cheers
Allan
 
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