fastelectricbike - DIY Stealth Bomber

oh give it a rest Do we have to degenerate into this bbickering all the time. Greg probably thinks were a bunch of babies the way this reads.. There now go to your corners and play nice :p :p :p :p
 
Hell i apreciate were your goin and by all means try to make some money but ya change some of that . tell folks what they will have to spend to copy the photo and give some credit where its due.

you can never make alot of money from the person that is willing to do it themsleves and if they are serious they will find ES. otherwise i would not hesitiate if i were you to point them here . the folks youll make money off are the ones that come here and get lost or overloaded but still wanna play. you get to act as guide and guru and make money on the initial sale and more money on support down the road.

The ebook thing was intended as an experiment to see what this internet marking thing is all about. My cousin made a killing does this and now he travels the world doing seminars teaching other people how to do it. When he was visiting here from Australia a few years ago he suggested I take one of my hobbies and do the same thing so that's what I decided to do. I promised myself I would follow the "system" precisely even though it looks cheesy and see what happens. Then I will write my own version of a sales page and see witch one does better.

must be fun but good god man i used to have a vfr750 and felt scared in that traffic on that big bike . you use trails alot on the commute or roadside up barnett hwy?

I usually ride along lougheed but it does get pretty hairy around Willingdon during rush hour. After a few close calls I decide to only ride lougheed on the weekends when there is no traffic. During the week I take the Central Valley Greenway, it's way safer. I start work at 7:00am so there is hardly anyone on the trail. I can still do 60kph on the gravel straight away by Burnaby lake.
 
Writing the book is a good idea, lots of people arrive here, start reading and are immediately lost in the jargon. The leave even more confused that before. But the web page speil does get a bit heavy handed. It reads way too much like the stuff all the EV liars have put up to sell thier kits. I won't name anybody but we know a few for sure. It's a shame too since some of the motors aren't bad, just thier performance claims are lies. So sounding like them backfires with us that know anyway. Rewrite it so the prospective customer has a more realistic number in mind for his costs to duplicate your build. I don't know what your per copy costs are, but I think you have it priced way too high too. If it's a download, you really will get more money selling it cheaper.

I never intended to try and sell the book on the forum, I figured everyone here knows enough to build their own bike but I guess it's easy to get lost in all the information. I know the web speil is bad, it was even more painful when I was writing it but I promised myself I would try it first to see how it does and then write my own version. To my surprise I have actually sold a few copies and the website has only been up for two weeks so maybe there is something to a pitchy sales letter. I did buy a few ebooks priced from $50 to $70 dollars about building an electric car to see what they were like. I couldn't believe how bad they where, some of them are obviously written by people who don't know a damn thing about electric vehicles and the books where half the length of mine. One of them wasn't too bad and possibly even worth the $67 I paid for it but most of them are garbage. My price of $47 probably is a bit high and I will most likely lower it if I don't make many sales. Maybe I will drop the price and post it in the sale section of the forum in case anyone here wants a copy.

As for the bike, those that call it a wall mart bike need to look closer. The big battery makes it ugly though. A decent FS frame doesn't leave much room for the battery in the frame. I end up putting it on a rear pannier and then handling suffers. For what I do on the bike, I can deal with the handling issues but it's a looooooong way from the elegance you see in a custom frame like the Jester makes.

I would have liked to use a FS frame but my main goal was maximum range so I wanted to have the biggest storage area possible inside the frame. My last bike had batteries mounted on the rear rack and I handled like crap.

Lastly, at what point do your customers find out that a motorized bike that goes 50 mph is illegal almost everywhere except off road? Try riding that thing in Phoenix!

I never really thought about that. My bike is illegal in Vancouver but the police don't enforce it. I pass them riding the bike all the time and they just ignore me. I guess this may not be the case in other cities.
 
I think you've made a nice bike. It looks well finished and it certainly seems to perform well. I'd be interested in seeing some more pics including what's under all those battery enclosures.

BikePic1.jpg


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Good bike, nice job greasy pants! 8)

If your asking, I wouldn't say take of the $6000 figure on the sales pitch, but I WOULD qualify it better by saying that is how much you spend over 5 years building several bikes to get to the point of building what you have now, that and I agree telling your customers approximately what it will cost to build what you have too.

As far as legal concerns, your selling a book for someone to DIY I wouldn't stress the legalities too much, just let them know they need to learn the laws for their local area and follow those laws.

You could always find a place for an electric bike on the road even with that kind of power, you most likely would have to license it as a motorcycle or some type of "experimental" vehicle, but hey, this is a DIY book.

Anyone who has built any kind of aftermarket high-performance engine, pipe or headers for a motorcycle/car has had access to "race track only" hardware that they can buy at the local parts store/shop and use on a street "legal" vehicle. (No need for a show of hands, but you know who you are! hehe :twisted: )

I think what you SHOULD definitely stress in the book is safety and proper use of the vehicle (i.e. helmets, gloves, leathers etc. for anything over 30 MPH) so that your not seen as promoting someone treating a motorcycle like vehicle more like a pedal bike. :wink:

That being said, go for it! Sell your book and promote E-Biking!! :D

The more people that get excited about E-Bikes the better, and by all means make some money sharing what you have built. :)
 
Sweet Bike! I don't see the duct tape, maybe you could highlight it for us North Americans to enjoy.

I agree with LI-ghtcycle, keep the 6K amount in, qualify it as he says, but then explain how much the final product you have costed and sell the difference as the value of the book. Make sense? 6K total R&D costs - 2K Bike cost = 4K value added by your ebook.

duct-tape1.jpg

LI-ghtcycle said:
Good bike, nice job greasy pants! 8)

If your asking, I wouldn't say take of the $6000 figure on the sales pitch, but I WOULD qualify it better by saying that is how much you spend over 5 years building several bikes to get to the point of building what you have now, that and I agree telling your customers approximately what it will cost to build what you have too.

As far as legal concerns, your selling a book for someone to DIY I wouldn't stress the legalities too much, just let them know they need to learn the laws for their local area and follow those laws.

You could always find a place for an electric bike on the road even with that kind of power, you most likely would have to license it as a motorcycle or some type of "experimental" vehicle, but hey, this is a DIY book.

Anyone who has built any kind of aftermarket high-performance engine, pipe or headers for a motorcycle/car has had access to "race track only" hardware that they can buy at the local parts store/shop and use on a street "legal" vehicle. (No need for a show of hands, but you know who you are! hehe :twisted: )

I think what you SHOULD definitely stress in the book is safety and proper use of the vehicle (i.e. helmets, gloves, leathers etc. for anything over 30 MPH) so that your not seen as promoting someone treating a motorcycle like vehicle more like a pedal bike. :wink:

That being said, go for it! Sell your book and promote E-Biking!! :D

The more people that get excited about E-Bikes the better, and by all means make some money sharing what you have built. :)
 
greasypants said:
I think you've made a nice bike. It looks well finished and it certainly seems to perform well. I'd be interested in seeing some more pics including what's under all those battery enclosures.

BikePic1.jpg


IMG_3965.jpg

BATTERY PORN!!!!
 
man i love this place . The sphere has spoken


all good stuff and i agree with what folks are saying .

seeing your choice in batterys makes the enclosure make more sense. nice work getting them all in there.

The advice your getting above is right inline with my impressions . i figured you didnt have 6k just in that bike but it leads the reader to think thats what it will take. a stumbling block i see as a buyer i only get a book ,the internet is a killer for diy books imo, most of your target demographic that can find you online are only a click away from finding the rest of what they need just scatterd around , i like number1crunchers line about 4k value in the book . selling a condensed version of ES to build that perticular bike is what your kinda of selling. what if i have questions due to a minor change or inability to source some of the parts you have used ? some kind of forum or steering them towards a place like this with your build log would help instill confidence that there is post-purchase support the lack of wich is a killer for ebike sales imo

not everyone has the time it takes to digest whats going on here. look at my join date im here at least once a day... and i still am very much enoob
 
greasypants,

Your project is very nice and the ebike look like the way many would do it. :wink:

I think you succesfully put 30s2p BMI or LiFEBatt cells into that frame! lol

Your ebike look like same performances than mine except your have better cosmetic for sure!

-Near 2kWh battery
-X5 motor, weight balance seem ok due to battery in the frame and lower center of gravity..
-great battery monitoring.. including the Tppacks 30s BMS

How is it with 105V, full throttle and no rear suspension? :shock: .. I ask cause i had bad experience at just 50km/h with my first setup without rear suspension.. and i've hit a BIIIIg puthole and ii believe me.. I still remember what happened!! :x

I guess that you use 24" tire?.. and if you have 80kmh max speed probably that at 105V you have a 5304 right?


BTW.. the idea for a an ebook about ebike build is a great idea!.. How many people are ready to invest in a great performant electric bike and that know nothing about that... and arrive here ion the ES and need to search... search... search... to learn the right way to do and where to begin....

Your book probably can give some great guide lines.. and this is good.

Alot of people that i've meet and that wanted electric bike like mine suggested me to write a book with the guidelines and trick but i never really took time to do that since my occupation is various and busy.

Congrat for your website, ebike and book !

and.. for not puting duc tape.... :oops: .. Yes.. I can admit that guys ... ! :mrgreen:

Doc
 
I stand corrected again Aussie Jester. Guess I'm really safe after all, disguised as a not so wealthy democrat. Do continue to slap me down, I'm starting to enjoy it.

I just had gotten the idea you didn't think much of any frock motor. I'll try to remember to only express my own opinions in the future, rather that my impressions of what anothers would be.

Now that I see the insides, the battery is starting to look a lot prettier!
 
When I think about how much time I have spent on this forum sifting around a few bucks for an ebook might not be a bad buy. Course that bike would scare me away from it being basically motorcycle power strapped on a bicycle frame while I'm looking for a little assist for bicycling.

I have gotten a couple ebooks on bike building. I never did follow any plan exactly but was able to see better how stuff was done in there then sifting through bike building forums/sites and even asking questions on them. Just think about how much your time is worth it could be well worth the shortcut if they are good ebooks.

I have more then once just thought about sending out the ebook or exerpts from it to someone to answer a question I haven't seen much mention of just posting copies of ebooks (pdfs) out there is there any protection on them or just trust and believe that there are enough people out there that will buy it and not just send it out/upload it?
 
Thanks for all the great advice. I like the idea of showing the value of the book as the difference betweem R&D costs vs the actual cost to build it, I will have to change that on the website, great idea. I think I probably have somewhere between 3K and 4K into the bike though. Those batteries are freakin expensive, I just hope they last as long as they're suppose to.

How is it with 105V, full throttle and no rear suspension? .. I ask cause i had bad experience at just 50km/h with my first setup without rear suspension.. and i've hit a BIIIIg puthole and ii believe me.. I still remember what happened!!

I know what you mean about the pot holes. It does hit pretty hard if you hit them fast. I only run 25-30psi in the rear tire which takes out most of the shock but it can still throw you if your not paying attention. On my commute to work there is only one really bad hole that I make sure I avoid. It's at the apex of a high speed turn and I hit it doing 70km once, not very pleasant but at least I never crashed. Now I know where it is so I ride around it but it can be hard to see a night. And yes the 5304 is mounted in a 24" rim, I think this is the best combination of speed and torque, I can still climb the steepest hills in my area doing 50kph. I even passed 2 guys riding harleys going up snake hill in Port Moody once, that had very confused looks on their faces.
 
greasypants said:
I even passed 2 guys riding harleys going up snake hill in Port Moody once, that had very confused looks on their faces.


lol. i know this hill very well and i can well imagine two fat old men on thier harleys thundering up that hill pissing off all the folks that live there only to be shocked by some guy on a weird bike with pedals zipping past them . :lol: very tight corners, very busy , very steep hill , not what harleys are made for. a buell maybe but a stock harley will be working hard up that hill.

Theirs a harley dealership not more than 3k from my door and i fully intend to take the chopper there and do a smoker in the parking lot :)
 
Ah ha.. I know that situatin about racing with Harley from a stop... very cool.. it hapenned to me few times... the torque of our X5 at 100A can beat them for the few first meters and thir face is still very funny to see i admit!!

Great to see My guess about the 5304 and 24" wheel are confirmed :mrgreen: .. it's experience! :wink:

I think you are the guy with the ebike that have fitt the most 38120 cells in the frame ever!... lol.. 60 of these cells in a mtb frame!!!.. Jozzer should see that!!.. You are close to be ready for the TTXGP!..

I searched for yor previous post and discovered that you visit the E-S since 2007. I now undestand why your name was fresh in my memory!.. but i think you probably left the forum for two years right?

Doc
 
I searched for yor previous post and discovered that you visit the E-S since 2007. I now undestand why your name was fresh in my memory!.. but i think you probably left the forum for two years right?

Ya I don't post on here much, only when I have a problem I can't solve myself and need some advise. I prefer to be tinkering in the garage or out riding. Plus my 7 and 4 year daughters eat of most of my time. I do check in evey few weeks to read what's new.

I may be in need of some advise soon though. My bike was acting up the other day so I pulled the motor and it looks like I have a few burnt out windings. I guess this happens when you push these motors to the limit. The motor is five years old and probably has close to 10000km on it so I think it's time to replace it.
 
Theirs a harley dealership not more than 3k from my door and i fully intend to take the chopper there and do a smoker in the parking lot

Last summer on my way to work I road by the Harley dealer on Boundary rd in Vancouver when they were having the free ride day. The place was packed, they had barbecue's set up in the rear p/lot, all the bikes lined up and people everywhere. I rode my bike right into the crowd of people and they all moved out of they way while I did a few laps around the parking lot. Then I pulled onto the back rd and pinned it riding away at 80kph. There must have been 60 people there and everyone of them stopped in there tracks and stared at me. It was really funny.
 
Your bike looks solid. I think it looks like a realization of the wave crest military bike concept.
Is there a forum member discount on the book?
 
I gotta ask, that left side switch assembly, I'm guessing it's from some form of motorcycle? I had one from something more like an electric scooter that had too small of wiring. It has a switch for a horn, turn signals & head light. Yours looks a lot more substantial, mind if I ask what it's from? I would have been fine with mine if I had remembered I was going to run a solinoid instead of direct current through the switch for my Magic Shine headlight. :roll: You can imagine what happened when I allowed a full draw from my 12V power source through 20G wires! :lol:
 
I particularly like this shot shows how well you have utilised the sapce available to you-->

BikePic1.jpg


See Doc! it CAN be done with no duct tape :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Good job greasypants thanks for more info on your bike im sure it will give many
ideas on arranging battery storage on their own rides in a more professional
and visually appealing manner :)

Do you have plans on the 'drawing board' for a full suspension version? as Doc brings
up a good point in one of his replies, travelling at the speed your e-bike is capable of
with no rear suspension could get painful if you hit a sizeable pot hole etc?

KiM
 
I gotta ask, that left side switch assembly, I'm guessing it's from some form of motorcycle? I had one from something more like an electric scooter that had too small of wiring. It has a switch for a horn, turn signals & head light. Yours looks a lot more substantial, mind if I ask what it's from? I would have been fine with mine if I had remembered I was going to run a solinoid instead of direct current through the switch for my Magic Shine headlight. You can imagine what happened when I allowed a full draw from my 12V power source through 20G wires!

The switch I use is made by K and S technologies part number 12-0055, I bought it on ebay, you only see them on there occasionally. It still has thin gauge wire but it works fine for my headlights that pull around 6 amps. I will be switching to LED's soon so that should lighten the load a little. The turn signals work o.k. but I think the 12-0040 switch is probably better, it's DOT approved and when you tap the turn signal it automatically cancels and centers the switch. This helps prevent you from leaving the turn signal on which I have done several times at night when I can't see what position the switch is in.
 
Your bike looks solid. I think it looks like a realization of the wave crest military bike concept.
Is there a forum member discount on the book?

I just lowered the price to $27 just in case anyone here wants a copy of the book. I will leave it like that until next weekend and then raise it again. I haven't changed the price showing on the website as I'm in the middle of making dinner but if you click to the order form the price is reduced. I will try and update the website tomorrow.
 
Do you have plans on the 'drawing board' for a full suspension version? as Doc brings
up a good point in one of his replies, travelling at the speed your e-bike is capable of
with no rear suspension could get painful if you hit a sizeable pot hole etc?

I would love to build a full suspension version but the bike wouldn't be very useful for me because of the limited space for batteries. I can't charge my bike at work so I have to ride there and back on a single charge (30km trip) which means I need a big battery pack.I also power a heated jacket from the battery pack during the winter which eats more power. On previous bikes I had just enough capacity to barely make it home so I was constantly watching how much power I was using. This really sucked and did not make the ride enjoyable. With the huge battery pack I have on my present bike I never worry about running out of power and can ride home full throttle the whole way. I only use 60% to 70% of the battery capacity each trip to work and back. This makes the ride alot more fun and feels more like riding a motorcycle. With low PSI in the rear high volume tire the ride really isn't that bad. When I ride on a rough trail I just standup on the pedals enduro style and power through everything.
 
Hey Greasy,

The guide sounds like a fair price for someone who wants to follow a proven example with set instructions, instead of learning everything from scratch and asking heaps of questions. There's probably a fair few people like that out there!

Can you tell us you set the Magura 5k-ohm resistive throttle to work with the Infineon/Crystalyte controller? Some inline resistors?
 
greasypants said:
I may be in need of some advise soon though. My bike was acting up the other day so I pulled the motor and it looks like I have a few burnt out windings. I guess this happens when you push these motors to the limit. The motor is five years old and probably has close to 10000km on it so I think it's time to replace it.

These X5 are very strong and difficult to burn. Generaly it's more the phase wire that melt with their teflon insulation going to point of no return... there is one person only i know here that really burned his X5 motor!.. it's Methods that have all honors!
He pushed it with 220A and 88V using a Kelly 120V 220A controller ( the one i just bought from him :lol: ) and the motor temp was around 420F !

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I always keep mine to 135 celsius max and NEVER had any problem in 5000km+ pushing it with 80-100A at 100V ( it's a 5305) When i have haul a schoolbus with it last summer the motor reached the dangerous 170 celsius temp!!.. I know that the Insulation class of the winding in sealed motor usuallyis 180 celsius ( Class H)

I would be very surprized if your motor winding could be burned!.. i would say it's the phase wire or maybe Hall sensor that was overheated.

I now always install a digital BBQ thermometer probe in every X5 i have, directly on the winding.

I Also pushed up to 172A (15200Watts) into my 5302 during hard burst of power for my superfast electric bike and the winding temp never reached more than 50 celsius more than ambiant when pushed during 20sec burst for drag race.

Here is what difference can exist for 164 celsius motor and.... 215 celsius motor! It'"s like your motor become a resistor heater!!

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Doc
 
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