Alan B
100 GW
Nice Find. Basically a prototype board with a jack to plug in and a compatible Piccolo board. So no power board, just access to all the signals.
Field Oriented Control development boards
- Thread starter Alan B
- Start date
Interesting stuff...
But,- it sounds like you need to buy a compiler licence and a compatable J-Tag emulator to be able to work with those stand-alone processor boards.
Could get fairly spendy ??
Only the complete dev kits seem to come with a built in emulator, allowing the bundled compiler to work.
I am unsure if the complete source code for the motor control libraries is available, for some blocks it might be just the compiled library code you get ?
Seems pretty hard to get to the bottom of all this stuff without actually taking the plunge :?
But,- it sounds like you need to buy a compiler licence and a compatable J-Tag emulator to be able to work with those stand-alone processor boards.
Could get fairly spendy ??
Only the complete dev kits seem to come with a built in emulator, allowing the bundled compiler to work.
I am unsure if the complete source code for the motor control libraries is available, for some blocks it might be just the compiled library code you get ?
Seems pretty hard to get to the bottom of all this stuff without actually taking the plunge :?
Alan B
100 GW
I think I read that the Stellaris boards include the JTag emulation on the brain board, and many of the software tools are open. It seems that the DSP based system is less open and more likely to run into tooling costs.
But it is hard to tell the whole story without trying it out.
But it is hard to tell the whole story without trying it out.
Alan B
100 GW
Mouser has the Stellaris kit for $280 including Stellaris ARM ControlCard, baseboard, motor, 24V supply, and software.
I am about to order one.
I am looking for a small hubmotor with hall sensors for testing. Don't need a wheel, could have broken or damage issues that make it unsuitable for bike use, this is just for the test stand.
I am about to order one.
I am looking for a small hubmotor with hall sensors for testing. Don't need a wheel, could have broken or damage issues that make it unsuitable for bike use, this is just for the test stand.
Alan B
100 GW
I bought it but haven't had time to play with it. 
I've just started a RC car project and have been playing with the TI kit with the DRV8312 + 28069M ControlCARD. I'm pretty impressed with it and I can say that TI are very actively supporting their InstaSPIN-FOC and -MOTION software on their forums.
I think I can clarify the situation on the ControlCARDs and the development software, etc. Many ControlCARDs have a built-in JTAG emulator. Code Composer Studio can be used at no cost and with no code size or time limits on those. In my case I bought a 28035 ControlCARD only to discover it doesn't have the built-in JTAG emulator. Apparently there are two versions with the "ISO" in the part number indicating the presence of the opto-isolated JTAG emulator. But in this case you just buy the cheap standalone XDS100 emulator (which is that same one as you'll find on the 28069M ControlCARD anyway) and you're sorted. But you really want the 28069M version. The M in this case means the chip includes some very special proprietary code in the ROM that you will want.
I think I can clarify the situation on the ControlCARDs and the development software, etc. Many ControlCARDs have a built-in JTAG emulator. Code Composer Studio can be used at no cost and with no code size or time limits on those. In my case I bought a 28035 ControlCARD only to discover it doesn't have the built-in JTAG emulator. Apparently there are two versions with the "ISO" in the part number indicating the presence of the opto-isolated JTAG emulator. But in this case you just buy the cheap standalone XDS100 emulator (which is that same one as you'll find on the 28069M ControlCARD anyway) and you're sorted. But you really want the 28069M version. The M in this case means the chip includes some very special proprietary code in the ROM that you will want.
Alan B
100 GW
Welcome to ES,
Interesting to hear more about how it is working and what you are doing with it.
Curious as to why choose the 28068M over the LM4F211?
Interesting to hear more about how it is working and what you are doing with it.
Curious as to why choose the 28068M over the LM4F211?
Alan B said:
I actually have all three ControlCARDs. 28068M is the newest and is the only one that includes InstaSPIN-FOC and InstaSPIN-MOTION. LM4F211 includes InstaSPIN-BLDC but I get the feeling that TI would prefer everyone to move to -FOC. LM4F211 for motor control seems to be a bit of a deadend at the moment. Its not helped by the fact that Stellarisware has basically been obsoleted and replaced with Tivaware (InstaSPIN-BLDC for LM4F211 is based on Stellarisware).
But of course you can't get a DRV8302-HC kit with the 28068M included so my advice would be to go for the DRV8302-HC-C2 kit and buy the 28068M ControlCARD separately.
Alan B
100 GW
Interesting. I haven't fired mine up yet, but understood it to include SMO FOC. Mine is the newer version of the Stellaris M4 from the end of last year and I was hoping to stay more with open source than the more closed TI products, and the LM4F ControlCards were half the price of the Piccolo. They sure have a bewildering array of stuff! Keep us apprised of your progress and good luck!
I see that FOC is included in the Stellaris software, and TI has not developed a Tiva ControlCard for the Cortex M4, and the LF411 is still a current product.
I see that FOC is included in the Stellaris software, and TI has not developed a Tiva ControlCard for the Cortex M4, and the LF411 is still a current product.
When you go to download Stellarisware you are told that the latest version supports LM3S only and that designs based on LM4F should migrate to Tivaware. As I understand it LM3S is Stellaris and LM4F is now Tiva (its the same chip as a TM4C something or other).
You are right that Stellarisware does include an open source FOC example. I haven't actually tried it myself but chances are its a fair bit less refined than InstaSPIN-FOC. If you really want to stay totally open-source then maybe you've picked the right the way to go but you might want to have InstaSPIN-FOC on hand for comparison purposes. Note that only the motor identification and rotor position/speed estimation portions of InstaSPIN-FOC are closed-source.
You are right that Stellarisware does include an open source FOC example. I haven't actually tried it myself but chances are its a fair bit less refined than InstaSPIN-FOC. If you really want to stay totally open-source then maybe you've picked the right the way to go but you might want to have InstaSPIN-FOC on hand for comparison purposes. Note that only the motor identification and rotor position/speed estimation portions of InstaSPIN-FOC are closed-source.
tomasinjapan
10 µW
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2011
- Messages
- 6
Hello, my 1st post here (many reading though). This is a great place of info. Thanks for all the posters!
I bought the DRV8301-69M-KIT to use with a Cyclone 650W motor (external controller) and want to share some experiences.
I tried the GUI interface for FOC and that nearly worked out of the box for InstaSPIN_FOC as soon as I put below parameters in the GUI :
- Res/Ind Est Current (A) > 6A
- Motor Max Current (A) at 50A
Motor parameters found :
Rs (Ω) = 4,291E-02
Ls_d (H) = 8,657E-05
Ls_q (H) = 8,657E-05
Flux (V/Hz) = 6,632E-02
I could not (yet?) make InstaSPIN_MOTION ... move. A small click and error 5 (I will post this on TI e2e forum).
I will now first install all the software to further explore InstaSPIN_FOC.
For my application, I need many IO's and I have been looking a bit at the schematics.
I think you can access many more IO's than available through the board by making a male-female DIMM100 board
with headers that can be connected through jumpers. Something like that exists off the shelf ?
(I will make something (with help) as I need to add some circuitry anyway).
Is there a risk for the header pins to act as an antenna and pick up noise ?
I made a list of what IO's I think may be available w/ or w/o loosing some functionality.
Not sure if it is readable for you, but I post anyway. Maybe it is of use to some of you.
Any corrections appreciated.
View attachment ExtraIO.xls
I try to keep you posted on my progress (but I am limited on time... as everybody of course).
I bought the DRV8301-69M-KIT to use with a Cyclone 650W motor (external controller) and want to share some experiences.
I tried the GUI interface for FOC and that nearly worked out of the box for InstaSPIN_FOC as soon as I put below parameters in the GUI :
- Res/Ind Est Current (A) > 6A
- Motor Max Current (A) at 50A
Motor parameters found :
Rs (Ω) = 4,291E-02
Ls_d (H) = 8,657E-05
Ls_q (H) = 8,657E-05
Flux (V/Hz) = 6,632E-02
I could not (yet?) make InstaSPIN_MOTION ... move. A small click and error 5 (I will post this on TI e2e forum).
I will now first install all the software to further explore InstaSPIN_FOC.
For my application, I need many IO's and I have been looking a bit at the schematics.
I think you can access many more IO's than available through the board by making a male-female DIMM100 board
with headers that can be connected through jumpers. Something like that exists off the shelf ?
(I will make something (with help) as I need to add some circuitry anyway).
Is there a risk for the header pins to act as an antenna and pick up noise ?
I made a list of what IO's I think may be available w/ or w/o loosing some functionality.
Not sure if it is readable for you, but I post anyway. Maybe it is of use to some of you.
Any corrections appreciated.
View attachment ExtraIO.xls
I try to keep you posted on my progress (but I am limited on time... as everybody of course).
I've had a temporary setback with my project. I had to change to higher power motors and made the mistake of trying one with the DRV8312 board. Actually, it worked okay initially when I used an LCR meter and entered the motor parameters manually. But then I made the mistake of trying to run the motor identification and managed to completely fry the DRV8312. I should say in fairness to TI that this board is generally pretty bulletproof and I was being very reckless. The motor can handle something like 15A continuous (versus the 3.5A contiuous rating for the DRV8312) and based on the DC resistance and supply voltage it could potentially draw maybe 100A instantaneously (although I should say that my bench supply is limited to 6.4A). To make matters worse I had it on cycle-by-cycle current limiting rather than latching shutdown. Rumour has it that TI will soon release a 2MTR kit using the DRV8301/2 and NexFETs which will do 10A continuous so I'm going to wait for that now.
TI-ChrisClearman
1 µW
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2013
- Messages
- 2
Hello, I found this site through a google search and just read through this long discussion.
I just wanted to help answer any remaining questions about the TI motor control solutions, specifically what we are doing with Piccolo and the InstaSPIN solutions, and invite you to participate in our forum on these topics at the TI site: http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/c2000/f/902.aspx
the overview of the InstaSPIN flavors is at www.ti.com/instaspin
And I'd be happy to clarify any confusion (I know it is nearly impossible to sift through all of the available information on motor control across the web, especially from semiconductor suppliers).
I just wanted to help answer any remaining questions about the TI motor control solutions, specifically what we are doing with Piccolo and the InstaSPIN solutions, and invite you to participate in our forum on these topics at the TI site: http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/c2000/f/902.aspx
the overview of the InstaSPIN flavors is at www.ti.com/instaspin
And I'd be happy to clarify any confusion (I know it is nearly impossible to sift through all of the available information on motor control across the web, especially from semiconductor suppliers).
Alan B
100 GW
Welcome to the forum Chris. Thanks for stopping by.
I have one of the TI kits but haven't had time to dig into it yet. It is a bit difficult to sort out all the software and licensing.
We are looking for better solutions for bicycle motor controls, especially at the higher power end of the spectrum for off-road and moped type applications (approximately 1-10kw). The commercially available units don't fit this application space well.
I'd like to develop something that uses the TI control plug in boards, mating with a purpose built power section and work in the bicycle environment, providing smooth transition from hall sensors at rest to FOC in motion, and have good throttle response and smoothly variable regenerative braking.
I tend to lean toward the more open designs and software, but anything that has reasonable (low) cost licensing is fair game as well. This is a very price sensitive market.
I have one of the TI kits but haven't had time to dig into it yet. It is a bit difficult to sort out all the software and licensing.
We are looking for better solutions for bicycle motor controls, especially at the higher power end of the spectrum for off-road and moped type applications (approximately 1-10kw). The commercially available units don't fit this application space well.
I'd like to develop something that uses the TI control plug in boards, mating with a purpose built power section and work in the bicycle environment, providing smooth transition from hall sensors at rest to FOC in motion, and have good throttle response and smoothly variable regenerative braking.
I tend to lean toward the more open designs and software, but anything that has reasonable (low) cost licensing is fair game as well. This is a very price sensitive market.
TI-ChrisClearman
1 µW
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2013
- Messages
- 2
Alan B,
There is no charge for the software licensing for the InstaSPIN solutions. We at TI just want to sell silicon. Software is an enabler (for us and for you).
The InstaSPIN-MOTION solution requires a device with an "M" post-fix: today that is the TMS320F28069M, and 68M, in 80 and 100 pin packages, with temperature range of -40 to 105 or 125C Q100.
There are special algorithms in the ROM that enable this to be used in our MOTION solution, specifically something called SpinTAC. www.ti.com/spintac www.ti.com/instaspin-motion
The InstaSPIN-FOC solution requires a device with "M" (these are superset devices) or more likely you would purchase an "F" post-fix: today that is the TMS320F28069F, 68F (same 80/100 pin packages) and 27F, 26F (48 pin package in both temperature)
There are special algorithms in the ROM that enable this to be used in our FOC solution, specifically something called FAST (software observer) and a full control solution . www.ti.com/fast www.ti.com/instaspin-foc www.ti.com/motorware
The "full control solution" is standard FOC software (Clarke, Park, PI controllers, Ipark, SVM) that we have built inside a controller state machine. ALL of this code is given as source in our MotorWare repository so that you know how we did the control and you may modify if you like.
We also have InstaSPIN-BLDC, which can run on any of our TMS320F28x devices. This is basically a "better mousetrap" when it comes to sensorless Bemf based trapezoidal control. It is typicaly used in much less dynamic applications where FOC is not required. If you are starting a new design though the -FOC and -MOTION solutions will get you MUCH further MUCH quicker.
There are over 20 labs for FOC and MOTION in www.ti.com/MotorWare that work on the 69M or 27F controlCARDs paired with a 50V/3.5A DRV8312-69M-KIT, 60V/40A DRV8301-69M-KIT, or 350V/10A TMDSHVMTRINSPIN three phase inverter kit. The DRV8301-69M-KIT is the most appropriate for driving e-Bikes, and we have quite a bit of experience with them. For the power levels you are talking about you will want to create your own inverter though that can support your current range. When moving our controller over to a new power level it is very easy to simply update the current and voltage hardware scaling and then update those values into a header file.
There is an overwhelming amount of information on this solution, but I'd point you to look at the www.ti.com/instaspin site. If you like to read, start with the web pages and them move to the TRMs that are linked. If you like videos, there is a player on the support tab with some overviews as well as customer videos of how they are using the technology. And come to the TI e2e forum if you have more questions, I'm very active in answering questions:
http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/c2000/f/902.aspx
I've personally spent several years of my life working on this, as have the other team members. It is a really amazing product. It's not perfect, but we continue to add enhancements (in user code, the ROM does not need to change) and we are very happy with the performance and capability. There certainly is nothing like this from any other semiconductor vendor.
There is no charge for the software licensing for the InstaSPIN solutions. We at TI just want to sell silicon. Software is an enabler (for us and for you).
The InstaSPIN-MOTION solution requires a device with an "M" post-fix: today that is the TMS320F28069M, and 68M, in 80 and 100 pin packages, with temperature range of -40 to 105 or 125C Q100.
There are special algorithms in the ROM that enable this to be used in our MOTION solution, specifically something called SpinTAC. www.ti.com/spintac www.ti.com/instaspin-motion
The InstaSPIN-FOC solution requires a device with "M" (these are superset devices) or more likely you would purchase an "F" post-fix: today that is the TMS320F28069F, 68F (same 80/100 pin packages) and 27F, 26F (48 pin package in both temperature)
There are special algorithms in the ROM that enable this to be used in our FOC solution, specifically something called FAST (software observer) and a full control solution . www.ti.com/fast www.ti.com/instaspin-foc www.ti.com/motorware
The "full control solution" is standard FOC software (Clarke, Park, PI controllers, Ipark, SVM) that we have built inside a controller state machine. ALL of this code is given as source in our MotorWare repository so that you know how we did the control and you may modify if you like.
We also have InstaSPIN-BLDC, which can run on any of our TMS320F28x devices. This is basically a "better mousetrap" when it comes to sensorless Bemf based trapezoidal control. It is typicaly used in much less dynamic applications where FOC is not required. If you are starting a new design though the -FOC and -MOTION solutions will get you MUCH further MUCH quicker.
There are over 20 labs for FOC and MOTION in www.ti.com/MotorWare that work on the 69M or 27F controlCARDs paired with a 50V/3.5A DRV8312-69M-KIT, 60V/40A DRV8301-69M-KIT, or 350V/10A TMDSHVMTRINSPIN three phase inverter kit. The DRV8301-69M-KIT is the most appropriate for driving e-Bikes, and we have quite a bit of experience with them. For the power levels you are talking about you will want to create your own inverter though that can support your current range. When moving our controller over to a new power level it is very easy to simply update the current and voltage hardware scaling and then update those values into a header file.
There is an overwhelming amount of information on this solution, but I'd point you to look at the www.ti.com/instaspin site. If you like to read, start with the web pages and them move to the TRMs that are linked. If you like videos, there is a player on the support tab with some overviews as well as customer videos of how they are using the technology. And come to the TI e2e forum if you have more questions, I'm very active in answering questions:
http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/c2000/f/902.aspx
I've personally spent several years of my life working on this, as have the other team members. It is a really amazing product. It's not perfect, but we continue to add enhancements (in user code, the ROM does not need to change) and we are very happy with the performance and capability. There certainly is nothing like this from any other semiconductor vendor.
Alan B
100 GW
Thanks for the tips Chris, that explains clearly some of the questions that I and others have had.
I look forward to reading, learning and testing this out.
Thanks again!
I look forward to reading, learning and testing this out.
Thanks again!
Alan B
100 GW
I see that the Stellaris M4 line is apparently being discontinued, unfortunately. There is still available inventory, not sure if it makes any sense to get more of a discontinued product though.
TI-ChrisClearman said:
I worked with a couple of the 8312 kits recently to drive a unique BLDC used for precision positioning. Sensorless motor with a drag coupling that turns speeds as low as 1 RPM. The active zero-cross enabled by the F2806x Piccolo works really nicely. There is an encoder but feedback is not realtime, there is very slight latency due to processing the encoder. But its damn fast.
To get the unit operational first took about 40 hours of researching TI's knowledge base to learn capabilities of the 8312 kits. I suppose that's TI's way of justifying all those parasitic MBA's who stand in the pockets of the engineers who create the actual products. This should have taken no more that 10 minutes.
Than loading all the TI stuff. ControlSuite took 7 loads as all the udates had a way of clobbering other required components. Insta-Spin Universal? Don't bother wasting hours on end, TI broke it and none of the MBA's know how to fix it.
Nevermind that the entire package you need to load just to create a few commands to run the system require a larger install that the entire Solidworks Suite of tools take up.
Cool product, but it will never become mainstream.
