For love or (little) money

[MajorMagnuM]

Well,
I wonder if any fo you have been through this process and can point out some shortcuts for me?
Having come to the conclusion that neither of my bikes is suitable for an E conversion, I've spent the last couple of weeks looking for a cheap 700c wheel road bike/hybrid as the base for my project. The only real requirements seem to be that the dropouts are at least 135mm wide (puma motor) and the frame is preferably stainless steel.
Well blimey! most cheap bikes these days seem to be made of alloys. Using a front mounted hub would open the options up immensly as there are an abundance of rigid steel forks i can fit. I had plumped for a rear mounted puma as that seemed most natural ( had a motorbike for many years). I intend to occasionally fit an "I-bert" child seat, so weight towards the front of the bike will increase and as such, I thought that rear mounting the hub motor would be the best way to go. I intend to carry the battery pack in my back pack, mount a rear rack and panniers for carrying stuff too, probably when i'm carrying the child up front.

So i guess my questions are...
1) Is there a steel framed bike ,hybrid or road 700c that i have overlooked?

2) Would it just be better to front mount the hub motor and really widen my choice of bike?

3) What are the pro's and cons of front and rear mounting?

3) Has anyone had any experience of the I bert or better?

Any help getting past this wall is much appreciated
MMaG

 

[mvadventure]

Not knowing where you live and not being familiar with biking habits in places that are not in the Deep South I can only assume you are not familiar with the bicycle of choice for around here. Sure we see lots of road bikes, mountain bikes and the occasional recumbent and trike but mostly what you see are "beach bikes".

This past Sunday, a beautiful day in the low eighties, we drove through St. Augustine to Jacksonville, Neptune and Atlantic Beach. On the road competing with the cars we found the road bikes, a couple or three dozen at least. We saw several hundred beach bikes ridden by everyone from kids to seniors and often in groups and parked in front of bars and restaurants.

A beach bike is a heavy steel frame with large (about 2" wide X 26") wheels and seldom more than six speeds. They are rusty, have big seats and rigid frames. One reason there are so many is that the salt air rusts but does not destroy them. Mine is a Boss Cruiser, 13 years old and is on its second motor and probably has over 7,000 miles on it, 1,800 with my Crystalyte 5304. It's been washed maybe four times and everything chrome is rusty but there isn't much chrome so it's no big deal.

Google steel framed beach bikes and I'll bet you come up with a bunch. Good luck.

Mike

 

[MajorMagnuM]

Cheers mike. and a happy new year!
Beach bikes are becoming more popular round here, but very slowly. Some great looking bikes in that genre,, but I am looking for something more utilitarian for British weather and roads.

This shop has an interesting inventory of alternative choices http://www.velorution.biz/?page_id=7

So far I have come up with this
http://www.raleigh.co.uk/bikedetails.aspx?ID=5649

and this
http://www.raleigh.co.uk/bikedetails.aspx?ID=4414

they both have steel frames and 700c wheels which is good, but dont seem to be that robust.
As I said in my op, alloy choices are far more abundant. For instance this

http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwPNLqrymode.a4p?f%5FProductID=7607&f%5FFullProductVersion=1&f%5FSupersetQRY=C105%7E1&f%5FSortOrderID=1&f%5Fbct=c003155c002910m002931

and this
http://www.bayviewcycle.com/NewFiles/bike_specs/003/HYBRID/Hybrid_Trek_72FX_WSD.html

or...
http://www.konabikes.co.uk/2008/smoke/smoke-2-9.php

marin:
http://www.marin.co.uk/2008/bikedetail.php?ModNo=3815

All the above bikes seem more solid and some come with a steel fork as standard.

Any other suggestions are welcome!

Thanks for the reply,
MMaG

 

[fechter]

I don't think you'll have a problem with mounting a Puma on the rear of an alloy frame. The dropouts are usually pretty thick and I can't remember hearing about any rear dropout failures.

 

[MajorMagnuM]

Nice one. That frees up loads of research time foir me so t.y.v.m!
MMaG

 

[Drunkskunk]

I have no experience with the iBert, it would be illegal in America. We may be the land of the free and the home of the brave, but when it comes to child safety, we're chickensh!ts.

I ride an Aluminum frame, it wasn't my first choice, but it's proven its self to be more than capable. Mine has oversized rear dropouts that can handle more abuse that I can ever punish it with.

As for the front/rear debate. I vote rear. Those who say you can't tell the difference between front and rear drive are the same who say you can't tell the difference between front wheel and rear wheel drive on a car. You can. Very easily.
The first time you have to ride up a curb to get out of the street, or pull up the front wheel to clear drain grate or railroad track, you'll be grateful you're not fighting the extra weight.

 

[diver]

I just bought a Schwinn bike for my wife at walmart. made like the old beach bikes .Has fenders , tall wide hander bars, and is 7 speed. its all alu except for front drop outs and the whole fork is steel. Im putting my cruiser on hers and putting the racer on mine . her bike reminds me of the bikes of the late 50's.lol even has a rack on the back. it was 129 at wally world. heres a url of the bike
http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=1266806



Butch

 

[Mark_A_W]

As for the front/rear debate. I vote rear. Those who say you can't tell the difference between front and rear drive are the same who say you can't tell the difference between front wheel and rear wheel drive on a car. You can. Very easily.
The first time you have to ride up a curb to get out of the street, or pull up the front wheel to clear drain grate or railroad track, you'll be grateful you're not fighting the extra weight.

Until you break your rim...

At least with a front wheel you can lift it off the ground as you go up the gutter, so it doesn't take the hit. The one time I rode up a gutter without lifting my front hub motor I did break the rim...well, now I know and now I always lift it! Much harder to do with a rear motor, so I'd be fitting a downhill rim right at the start.

I think balance is most important for handling. What matters most is that the weight is evenly distributed, so either:

1. Motor rear and batteries midmounted in frame.

2. Motor front and rear batteries.

If you put too much weight at the rear, the handling gets all squirrelly, and you pop monos without meaning to.

Front wheel drive cars are safer anyway, and AWD is best (but inefficient).

 

[josh]

For love, maybe, but for little money I'm not so sure Mmag . A friend recently had a Boardman comp (from halfords) 700c fitted with a rear 260rpm 400W puma and 36V NiMH battery (in a crystalyte 'journey' case), 20A crystalyte controller I think - it made quite a light ebike - around 20kg or less, 22mph under load & good low/mid-range torque too, but in total the bike & kit cost more than my Torq, although there is some trade-off - my Torq is heavier & has 25% less motor power (same top speed though). He found he had to change the narrow 28mm road tyres for wider, but was still limited to a 32mm on the rear due to narrow rear stays, so beware of that if you're fitting a kit & you like a cushioned ride on the roads here!

I agree with Mark about kerb-jumping with a front motor, though that might be less of an issue with lighter rear motors if you're careful & mind your tyre width choice & pressure .

Some of the other pros/cons of front/rear motor (that I can recall) are:

Front: 2-wheel drive, rear freehub cartridge gearsets stronger & more choice, good weight distribution (with rear/mid battery), but high torque motor may slip in wet up slopes or pulling loads & the more unsprung motor weight in rigid forks, the rougher the ride through the bars will be : you could use shocks, but that may reduce pedalling efficiency somewhat unless they can be locked.

I manage the shocks to my wrists on mine with wide-ish 38mm marathon plus tyres @ 50PSI & 'specialized' body geometry II comfort grips (gel padded) with a reduced length 'thumb' twist-grip throttle mod & remind myself that pedalling efficiency & handling on bends is much better with rigid front forks :wink:. Also, raising the position/angle of the bars can help a bit too, if they allow.

Rear: Unsprung motor weight tamed by rider weight, more grip in wet, on slopes & towing, weaker & fewer gear options, one-wheel drive only, probably more efficient setup & good for a pneumatic-suspension-only (tyres!) bike.

There's probably many other factors too re ease of preserving structural integrity of the forks/dropouts aswell as other factors as you move to heavier & more powerful motors & fitting of torque arms etc.