Full suspension v.s. Hardtail

[snowcrow]

At present I have a 408 rear hub on a hardtail Huffy After riding only about 100 mile this last summer I feel its time for something not so hard on my back, on these rough rural Vermont roads. Its not much fun feeling like a bag of broken glass at the end of each ride

I know there are a few things I can do to smooth out the ride, such as, a suspension seatpost and fatty tires. But, how does it compare to a bike with full suspension, as far as comfort and add control at higher speeds, especially if you plan on doing some trailer towing around town. Can you tow light loads with rear suspension?

I'm also planning to add 408 front hub, for the extra power I need to tow and climb the hard pack dirt road up to camp, 2 miles flat paved, 3 miles dirt with a 1200ft elevation for town Roads are rougher riding than a camptown lady, including the paved

Just thought I'd get some feedback from those of you that have made the switch, to full suspension from a hardtail bike frame, to weigh the pros and cons before investing more money in this project

Blessings, Snow Crow

 

[Drunkskunk]

Hard tails handle more precisely. On a hard tail, I could ride along the top of the curb beside the road to avoid puddles, or plant my tire on the white stripe and keep it there while cruising. Now that I'm on a full suspension, I'm happier, a lot less sore, but I can't do any of those things anymore.

 

[dogman dan]

Even cheapo rear suspension helps me a lot when I commute. The bike path I ride has a lot of dips for water drainage designed for 5-10 mph, so when I hit em at 25-27 mph I bent wheels and broke spokes untill I got suspension. The problem is speed. I ride really really rough trails on my hardtail, no motor bike, and never even notice I don't have suspension on that bike. But uphill, I may be riding 2 mph, and on such trails, downhill, maybe 5 mph. I think for an ebike at full throttle suspension is a must, even if it is cheesy with only an inch or so of travel. For speed on rough roads, you may want something pricey though. It's a dilemma, what I would like in an off road e bike costs about three times a used ICE dirtbike.

 

[Link]

Hard tails handle more precisely. On a hard tail, I could ride along the top of the curb beside the road to avoid puddles, or plant my tire on the white stripe and keep it there while cruising. Now that I'm on a full suspension, I'm happier, a lot less sore, but I can't do any of those things anymore.

You just don't have mad riding skillz. :wink:

Also: Full suspension. Even on 55psi the cheap suspension's better than on the 30psi street tires on the BMX. Must be real nice with seatpost and fat tires, but I don't ride long enough to warrant that kind of plush.

 

[D-Man]

Hard tails handle more precisely. On a hard tail, I could ride along the top of the curb beside the road to avoid puddles, or plant my tire on the white stripe and keep it there while cruising. Now that I'm on a full suspension, I'm happier, a lot less sore, but I can't do any of those things anymore.

Interesting. Maybe it goes like this:

Freeride/downhill suspension bike with 120mm and greater travel = (Heavy Tank, not too maneuverable)
XC type full suspension = 100mm and smaller travel (lighter, more maneuverable)
hardtail = better

Its probably just the quality of the bike and such. Probably why bikes get redesigned often. The greater the lift, the less nimbleness. No offense but the older kona stinky doesn't look too nimble. Its just suppose to go downhill.

 

[snowcrow]

Thanks for chiming in guys 8) I think a XC type full suspension is about my speed and, as long as it comes from Sears, will be in my price range too!! It's like this... I got a Sears Gift Card thats burning a hole in my pocket I like the Mongoose Estes you have Dogman, but not sure if thats a 24in or a 26in wheel you've got. Sears is selling it as a Men's 26in /w 24in wheels...WTF :? http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00607543000P?mv=rr
If I can which over to 26in wheels on that frame, I'd be a happy camper 8) I'd even go for a 24" in back and a 26" up front, then add a bit more travel to the rear suspension. Don't know how that will effect my 2WD plans though

It does a bit different frame though, with a ring around the rear shock. It would make for easy and stonger back rack support, thats a good thing The biggest thing for me is, will it except a fork with 1 1/8" stem, I'd like to be able to upgrade in the future.

The Victory Vegas that Sears sells doesn't look all that bad either, at $260 All the bits and pieces look to be better than bikes in that same price range too!

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00685918000P?mv=rr

There again, none of the bikes say anything about the fork's stem size :?

Freeride/downhill suspension bikes style is a bit out of my price range, and a bit more than I need.

Blessings, Snow Crow

 

[etard]

Ahhh, an argument as old as the ebike itself. If you go with a trailer, it leaves your options wide open. You can put all your weight (batteries, controller, etc) in there, and now your hardtail will not feel so harsh. Heck, if you run SLA, just load up that trailer with more batteries and you should have all the power n range you need. Keep it simple with one hub n one controller, just add batteries and have Steveo customize your controller.

 

[D-Man]

Yeah, its hard to find a cheap bike with nice room in the frame for batteries. I've looked everywhere myself and haven't found a cheap frame that I can make the switch to full suspension yet. I really like the Jamis Dakar xc frame. The shock at the top of the frame makes for perfect placement of batteries, along with water bottle mounts. But a used bike will be 500-600 bucks. Sometimes you see them on clearance but its always the smallest or largest frame size and not the one you want. Can't seem to find a cheapy bike with the same shock placement.

 

[D-Man]

Ahhh, an argument as old as the ebike itself. If you go with a trailer, it leaves your options wide open. You can put all your weight (batteries, controller, etc) in there, and now your hardtail will not feel so harsh. Heck, if you run SLA, just load up that trailer with more batteries and you should have all the power n range you need. Keep it simple with one hub n one controller, just add batteries and have Steveo customize your controller.

It sounds good, but then parking it is a pain. Plus you have even more weight to deal with. Then there's more flats you can get plus more axels that can bend if not carefull with the curbs or turns. Only way to find the perfect ebike is to build it yourself.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Thanks for chiming in guys 8) I think a XC type full suspension is about my speed and, as long as it comes from Sears, will be in my price range too!!

Freeride/downhill suspension bikes style is a bit out of my price range, and a bit more than I need.

Blessings, Snow Crow

I think a cheap Full Sus bike might not handle or ride well, particularly after adding the weight of motor and batteries and driving at high speed.

 

[recumbent]

Our local bike store owner told me that rear suspension is not made for comfort on paved roads. Something to do with light weight frames, and physics. Besides, the whole purpose of 26" wheels is to smooth out the bumps for you.

Finding a good battery location and mounting panniers is made more difficult with rear suspension also.
But having full suspension is a "must have" thing for bikes, try paying over $600 if you can, otherwise the shocks might fail after a years use.

 

[D-Man]

No doubt, the lighter the better but ebikes are heavy unless you go full carbon with lithium and 5lb motor. Hey recumbent, I bet you don't even feel a bump with that front wheel so far away from the seat with the long wheelbase. Probably feel it with the back tire though.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

I had a cheap discount store full suspension bike, a Schwinn S-60 from Target. I spent way too much time servicing/replacing the cheap components, and it still never felt solid or rode straight. It was also too small for me. Discount store bikes only come in one size. I recommend staying away from department store bikes. If you are after more comfort try a cushy seat, thud-buster, and/or balloon tires.

 

[D-Man]

Well, Doc Bass runs a Mongoose Blackcomb frow wallmart or something. Shows you how dumb he is. :lol: I think it has multiple pivot points though. Personally, I would just want the frame and junk the rest.

 

[Mark_A_W]

Yeah, its hard to find a cheap bike with nice room in the frame for batteries. I've looked everywhere myself and haven't found a cheap frame that I can make the switch to full suspension yet. I really like the Jamis Dakar xc frame. The shock at the top of the frame makes for perfect placement of batteries, along with water bottle mounts. But a used bike will be 500-600 bucks. Sometimes you see them on clearance but its always the smallest or largest frame size and not the one you want. Can't seem to find a cheapy bike with the same shock placement.

I had that frame - well, a slightly older version.

It was a bit of a PITA to get the batteries in the triangle - I never managed it, you would need a custom pack. My current Kona Dawg (thread coming) is much better, my headway pack fitted fine.


I notice the have added some gussets to the chainstay....which may prevent this (pic) but they aren't built to be e-bikes...

Be careful with the lightweight XC bikes.

 

[recumbent]

Hey recumbent, I bet you don't even feel a bump with that front wheel so far away from the seat with the long wheelbase. Probably feel it with the back tire though.

My bike is 7 feet long and made of cr,moly steel, it' feels like one long leaf spring which bounces slightly but noticably. The thick seat absorbs most of the little bumps though.

The "thud buster" seat like "Reid" has on his new bike looks like the best suspension seat on the market by far. If i had a normal upright bike, I'd scoop one of those, even though they're a bit goofy lookin.

 

[dogman dan]

Re the cheap mongoose frame, the big drawback on those, and those like it, is the one inch headset, that limits the choices of a front fork upgrade severely. Since I run a front hub , that was fine for me since I want the cheap forks for thier one piece welded steel construction. No problems with dropouts and headset tubes breaking with the heavy steel. Just about everything except the front forks and the frame is not stock on my bike now. I bought a half dozen or so 10 buck bikes this summer at the flea, and put half the parts on one bike, and built a nice peadle only mtb with the rest. A few other bought for real money items round out the mongoose into a nice commuter. Nothing wrong with the frame though, if somebody elses crapped out, it was either bent from day one, or stuff wore out quick for lack of tuning. Even the high dollar bikes wear out fast if run hard out of adjustment. Anyway most of the crappy stuff on the mongoose went in the first few hundred miles, but I still have the original brakes, rear derailur, rear wheel and crank shaft. Strangely the brakes have allways been fine, though they look like tinfoil, and I can't seem to wear out the rear wheel, despite almost 2000 miles. I have replacements a plenty around, but as long as it runs fine, why change. The first thing to go was the seat and seatpost, and the first thing to wear out was the steel front chainring. At about 1000 miles I wore out the spring on the rear suspension, that was a 650 lb. Mostly you see 750 lb ones. The 650 felt nice at first, but eventually was bottoming out.

On frame size, the bike you are looking at may be a 24 inch wheel with a 26 inch frame, 26 being the seat tube length? I have thought about a bike with 24 inch rear wheel and 26 inch front for more torque on a rear drive bike. Just put 26 inch forks on a 24 inch bike to get that. Also it would give a more upright ride with the handlebars tipped up a bit. Most of these dept store bikes are kinda intended for kids and teenagers, so It took a lot of mods to seat and handlebars to make it rideable by me, at nearly 6 feet height. I couldn't see riding one of these cheap bikes for long if left stock.

 

[D-Man]

I notice the have added some gussets to the chainstay....which may prevent this (pic) but they aren't built to be e-bikes...

Hey Mark, weren't you doing something extreme when this failure happened? Obviously though its happened to others if they added gussets. Should be easy to fix though.

 

[vanilla ice]

I think DS comments are the most telling since he's recently switched and made notes.. Another drawback to something like a blackcomb frame (or similar) is the extra five pounds. Maybe not a huge deal on a heavy ebike, but thats 5 pounds less bats for the same weight with the mega buck frames. I can't believe they would put a 1" headset even on a blackcomb tho.. do they? They was a local guy trying to sell a bare frame for $40, thought about it but passed.

If you want a el cheapo POS bike with space in the triangle you could try micargi.. http://www.2wheelbikes.com/suspension-mountainbikes/sm1000-mountain-bike.html Thought about one of those for a while, but got a few cheap used hardtails instead with money to spare. Got to love used bikes.

Niagara has a couple pogo posts on special right now for like twelve bucks, 27.2mm being one of the two.. that might do you for a while until you upgrade to a dual suspension frame. We've got two hardtails in the fam with them pogos and they do make things a little easier on the bike as well as your tush. Something like a schwalbe apple or frank in the back helps also, or even a generic 2.0 or 2.1 tire.

 

[D-Man]

Looks like they added the rear gussets to the Jamis Dakar in 2006. Bummer for those who bought before.

 

[dogman dan]

When I mentioned the 1 inch headset, I was talking about the REALLY cheap mongoose bikes, AKA wallbikes. These may have an aluminum main frame, but they have a steel rear swingarm and steel front forks. They can make a good ebike platform since they have steel dropouts front and back, but like I did, you may need to buy a bunch of broken bikes and other new parts to put together a bike you can put thousands of miles on. Real bikers won't touch these bikes with a ten foot pole, but hey, if I can ride one allmost 2000 miles it can't be that easy to break. Belive me I'm the destruction tester of everything I touch. But when money is tight, standards get lowered. But it can take a good mechanic to keep the cheapo bikes running good.

 

[Mark_A_W]

I notice the have added some gussets to the chainstay....which may prevent this (pic) but they aren't built to be e-bikes...

Hey Mark, weren't you doing something extreme when this failure happened? Obviously though its happened to others if they added gussets. Should be easy to fix though.

Not really. Speedbumps at 40. No biggie.

 

[snowcrow]

Ahhh, an argument as old as the ebike itself. If you go with a trailer, it leaves your options wide open. You can put all your weight (batteries, controller, etc) in there, and now your hardtail will not feel so harsh. Heck, if you run SLA, just load up that trailer with more batteries and you should have all the power n range you need. Keep it simple with one hub n one controller, just add batteries and have Steveo customize your controller.

I think having two controllers gives me an extra layer of protection. If I'm way off in the sticks, on a logging road, and the controller quits , its a long ride home. Two controllers at least lets me limp home if one fails

Yeah, its hard to find a cheap bike with nice room in the frame for batteries. I've looked everywhere myself and haven't found a cheap frame that I can make the switch to full suspension yet. I really like the Jamis Dakar xc frame. The shock at the top of the frame makes for perfect placement of batteries, along with water bottle mounts. But a used bike will be 500-600 bucks. Sometimes you see them on clearance but its always the smallest or largest frame size and not the one you want. Can't seem to find a cheapy bike with the same shock placement.

Nice bike, but its a little out of my price range. I did bid on a bike and lost , with the some type of suspension setup
I know, "Too bad, so sad!"

Ahhh, an argument as old as the ebike itself. If you go with a trailer, it leaves your options wide open. You can put all your weight (batteries, controller, etc) in there, and now your hardtail will not feel so harsh. Heck, if you run SLA, just load up that trailer with more batteries and you should have all the power n range you need. Keep it simple with one hub n one controller, just add batteries and have Steveo customize your controller.

It sounds good, but then parking it is a pain. Plus you have even more weight to deal with. Then there's more flats you can get plus more axels that can bend if not carefull with the curbs or turns. Only way to find the perfect ebike is to build it yourself.

So far as the trailer goes, it will be used in town, where it's mostly flat riding, and only a mile or two from the store to the house. Any bulk hauling to the camp is going to be done in the GEO Traker. If I just need a few kibbles for camp, I can use a small backpack.

Blessings, Snow Crow

 

[D-Man]

Here's one. $529 for the frame. Extra large though.

 

[snowcrow]

Will...I find an older Schwinn S-30 frame for $80, don't know if thats a fair price of not? Got to be better than that kinney buster I'm riding now Just needs derailleurs, shifters, bakes, cables, chain, and wheels All I really need to buy are the shifters, bakes, and cables. The shock is 850 lbs.
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Blessings, Snow Crow