Galileo/Newton agree-- 9/11 was an inside job!

[dnmun]

i have read that many black people who also lacked any exposure to modern engineering believed that the landing on the moon was a fake.

hard to believe anyone actually believes that the world trade center was blown up by insiders when there are tens of millions as well as bin laden himself who know that they were set on fire by an impact from two planes fully loaded with fuel.

it really does stagger the imagination to realize people can think otherwise. what does it take to twist a mind inside out?

 

[Gregory]

People just love conspiracy theories.

I know it's not limited to Americans, but you do seem to have a higher than average number of kooks.

 

[thewmatusmoloki]

I reckon I'll give it about another 20 years before certain people start saying the shuttle launches were faked.

 

[neptronix]

It's not kooky to believe a conspiracy theory like this. It may not be popular to point the finger at the government, but it isn't improbable that the government did it at all. Our government has killed it's own people in incidents like this before.

The USA has planned false flag attacks like this before, one which is rather similar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Here is the false flag that our government set up to get people to accept invading vietnam:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident


It does not matter to me whether 9/11 was a setup or not though. Our government is still responsible for getting us in this mess.

We had planned to invade Afghanistan months before the twin towers were hit because Bin Laden didn't want a huge UNOCAL pipeline built through the country he felt responsible for. Bin Laden said he would retaliate for the planned invasion. This is simply just blowback, as usual.

You can read more about that here:
http://www.historycommons.org/timel...ete_911_timeline&before_9/11=pipelinePolitics

Reagan and H.W. Bush are also effectively responsible for funding what eventually became the taliban. Read this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

The war on terror was never meant to end.

 

[Punx0r]

The official conspiracy theory is refuted by basic science. Please do yourselves a favor and attempt to understand. They are not "kooks", they are technical and building professionals who believe in the fundamental laws of our universe such as acceleration due to gravity and the laws of physics.

Love it. "If you do not believe this theory you cannot believe in the laws of physics!".

I have news for you, "professionals" and "experts" are wrong. Frequently. Especially when they start opining and theorising outside their field of experience. Architects do not know anything about building demolition. Demolition experts do not know what happens when a plane hits a building, or what happens to the structure of one building when an adjacent one collapses. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that the WTC incident is probably unique. Therefore, no-one is experienced or knowledgeable about what should or should not have happened.

I think you're also neglecting to consider the millions of engineers and architects who are incredulous of these conspiracy theories. Which, as always, offer no evidence, and aren't even internally consistent. I could immediately challenge almost all the points you made just without doing any research or even much thinking. It's pointless, though, because no amount of evidence or sound science or logic will ever convince the conspiracy nut. Their beliefs are held on gut instinct and faith, and bound up in their personality. The stronger the evidence against them, the more strongly they believe they are right because they are committed to and invested in those beliefs.

For me, the answer is based on the balance of probabilities aided by a little background knowledge of materials science and construction, and the competence and capabilities of governments.

 

[melodious]

I'd like to see statistics regarding the use of the 9-1-1 call pre & post 9/11. They should interview the folks working & dispatching the 911 calls to see if there have been a massive uptick in calls and type of calls ever since.

Edit: don't get me started on a theory (a confusing one at that) if this took place on 4/11. Or how all the fine upstanding fair priced ( :lol: ) 7-11 stores filed bankruptcy because their reputation was marred due to the 7/11 WTC attack (again, hypothetical).

 

[nutnspecial]

Freefall speed is definitely interesting, and that's besides building 7 which incurred no damage.
Etrike, the linked 'Blueprint for Truth' is a great documentary.

To those interested, Dr Judy Wood is the most objective and interesting presenter I've seen with some interesting ideas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqbcsU0_RjU Let me know what you think if you get 2hrs to watch it etrike. They just crumble to dust.

To those that refuse to consider all of evidence: If you don't think there can be conspiracy to control mass perception and goverments' direction, you are in danger of being part of the biggest conspiracy of all.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why you think like you do- It takes the desire, then time and effort to step away from the status quo. It's a hard 'pill to swallow'. The tide is turning though, I question why it is even being 'allowed' to happen, maybe it's just our good luck the internet has not be muted for us 'yet'.
It matters not because I'm grateful for greater understanding of man and the world, and myself.

'Wakeup call' is a great docu that helped give a backstory to the current events I started to question.
Heed the warning at the start tho lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVQvlG59sJ8

 

[Punx0r]

In any issue, no matter how conclusive, there is always some small uncertainty about the fringes in which the paranoid can weave their webs of doubt.

For a very basic and literal example see, "how long is a piece of string?". The answer is that no one knows. Absolute certainty in scientific or technical matters is usually (always?) impossible. That is why conspiracy theories never die: one claim is refuted/disproven and so the paranoid simply delve into the minutiae of an unlimited number of other issues.

There is a credible possibility that the U.S. government was involved in some way, as opposed to be being totally ignorant of all people and events leading to the attack, but the involvement is likely to involve negligence. Even if that negligence is a back-fired attempt to manipulate foreign agents. And yes, there would be incentive to cover up low-level involvement. However, these conspiracy theories require an outlandish level of involvement and risk for the conspirators. Examine the likely personal motives for these supposed conspirators and it all seems rather unlikely.

 

[nutnspecial]

I agree that the only proof there is theoretically is in math and alcohol lol.
But: Paranoid= extremely fearful.

I think people that are willing to look at potentially (very) scary alternative views are far from fearful, I think that shows courage.
Fear may actually be the a reason some people are unable/unwilling to consider the alternatives to what they've generally told.

 

[Punx0r]

41.20 - 41.45 I think it will astound even without context.

Just made an exception and watched it (plus a minute either side). On first impressions the lady seems a bit simple and to be over-analysing something she clearly doesn't understand. Reminds me of the moon-landing theories: all "ZOMG! the shadows are wrong! The crosshairs are under the object!".

 

[arkmundi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_controlled_demolition_conspiracy_theories and concur.

 

[nutnspecial]

I don't know about the op, but I think the moon landing stuff should be it's own thread- that's a huge difference in subject, and I don't see relevancy to science/911/inside job, other than they're both called conspiracy theories by some. It just doesn't seem like a rational argument, although on it's own it could be an interesting discussion, sounds like.

Mz Wood has some funny terms like 'cheetos' 'dustifing' 'lather' etc, but I find it extremely well done. I think she's a phd and some other abbreviations too, and the knowledge does show. Those couple of seconds of video alone are very striking imo.

I actually rewatched the entire thing and the 'toasted' cars, jumpers, and various other points are excellent. It raises so many questions and makes me think. She never points a finger, just tries to evaluate simply and without predjudice or bias.

Ps, thanks for the link arkmundi, I think the wiki entry along with the NIST report is the official 'other side of the argument' that the Etrike and I are suppling counterinfo on.

 

[granolaboy]

This isn't news. The whole world knows damn well the buildings were collapsed with controlled demolition.

Only people in America (I include Canada here) are dumb enough to buy the official story. It's painfully obvious to everyone else.

 

[spinningmagnets]

This has gone on long enough that it is obvious that anyone who is pro or anti about US government complicity in the 9/11 airplane attacks will never persuade the other side to convert, but...the only story that I find worth talking about is the third building, which no plane crashed into, but that...a plane in the conspiracy was pre-planned to crash into according to the survivors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui).

No plane crashed into 7 WTC, but..it still went down. I am surprised that it is not discussed ten times more often than the other facets of the 9/11 attack (as proof of some type of conspiracy). I found the explanation in wikipedia to be somewhat un-persuasive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center

7 WTC was damaged by debris when the nearby North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed. The debris also ignited fires, which continued to burn throughout the afternoon on lower floors of the building. The building's internal fire suppression system lacked water pressure to fight the fires, and the building collapsed completely at 5:21:10 pm

 

[arkmundi]

Ps, thanks for the link arkmundi, I think the wiki entry along with the NIST report is the official 'other side of the argument' that the Etrike and I are suppling counterinfo on.

Been there and tried that suit on for size, even walked around in it. I was first convinced, as many, by watching videos and reading up. With my science hat on, its was the nano-thermite residue in the dust argument that first convinced me. But the strange thing about science is that other research will come forward, new articles written and so forth. So that original thesis has been bashed and thoroughly refuted. So it all comes down to the "preponderance" of science and its now heavily weighted on the side that says the buildings were not brought down by demolition. Time for the 911 Truth movement to give it up.

 

[nicobie]

Were the jets flying into the buildings photochopped too?

 

[nutnspecial]

Check out the Judy Wood presentation guys, she doesn't go into the planes or government and many of the common arguments. She goes a bit different than the official 'refuted' truth theory lol, in what is the most non objective comprehensive honest and str8forward way I've seen, albeit simplistic.
She's not trying to blame or divide, just asking questions imo.

 

[liveforphysics]

If you look at released freedom of information documents from the US government, you find many types of approved contingency plans to kill plane loads of Americans or boat loads of Americans for the purpose of starting wars to go invade and kill more people.

If they have been OK with killing planes and boats of innocent folks clear from 50 years back, why would a few iconic buildings not be seen as equally good or better to trade in exchange for pseudo-justifying continued perpetual war-mongering?

We have a 100% corporatism government. The shareholder profits of the war-monger industry > American lives.

It doesn't matter long-term though, the US government is in the conclusion stages of the Tytler cycle and inevitably will collapse on it's own corrupt soon enough.

 

[neptronix]

If you look at released freedom of information documents from the US government, you find many types of approved contingency plans to kill plane loads of Americans or boat loads of Americans for the purpose of starting wars to go invade and kill more people.

If they have been OK with killing planes and boats of innocent folks clear from 50 years back, why would a few iconic buildings not be seen as equally good or better to trade in exchange for pseudo-justifying continued perpetual war-mongering?

We have a 100% corporatism government. The shareholder profits of the war-monger industry > American lives.

It doesn't matter long-term though, the US government is in the conclusion stages of the Tytler cycle and inevitably will collapse on it's own corrupt soon enough.

Yeah, that's what i was trying to get at too.
I don't need absolute proof that 9/11 was a inside job. If i want proof that the USA's federal government is willing to do things that would make Hitler blush, i just have to scroll through declassified documents from the past. Governments always devolve into this near their end. Our government is currently unsustainable and incredibly nervous about it's longevity. It has done an excellent job of drawing out it's eventual demise. An average lifespan of a government is about 250 years, and we are in that period where ours is looking a little dicey, don't you think?

But don't disregard what MANY architects have had to say just because they are not demolition experts. These people are trained in how to build something to stand up to X/Y/Z condition. They are taught what happens when things fail. It is their job to build things so that they do not fail and kill people. When these people are some of the most vocal about the towers, even at the risk of losing their jobs, it's important to take their ideas into consideration.

I am no expert, but how WTC7 fell looks exactly like a controlled demolition to me, compared to other controlled demolitions i've seen. A building with steel beams does simply not fall like that. Steel bends and distorts before it magically falls STRAIGHT DOWN like that, if it was really jet fuel that caught it on fire. Controlled demolitions are designed to fall straight down, as to not damage other buildings nearby.

Another fishy element is that the building's owner ( Larry Silverstein ) took an insurance policy that covered acts of terror weeks before the attack. He attempted to collect over 7 billion dollars on the policy after the attack. There was issues with the building before this because it needed extensive asbestos removal that would have been costly. He and a few other family members who worked in the building had not shown up for work on the day of the attack for a variety of reasons - how interesting!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Silverstein#Insurance_dispute

But again, it doesn't matter to me. We still live under a hilariously evil government who has no problem exploiting events like these to prompt us into pointless multi trillion dollar wars that future generations will be enslaved to pay for. THAT IS UNDENIABLE. You cannot deny it! if you're working today, you're being forced to paying for it, and so will your children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren as long as this government continues to exist!

 

[arkmundi]

The so called "government" is not a monolithic structure acting synchronically. It is a vast bureaucracy, disjointed with multiple agencies under different leadership, many many people. Some parts are working quite well. I hope, for instance, that the Social Security Administration continues to parse out entitlements, as I am of that age. And despite what others may think, the Affordable Care Act has proved a God send for me and many people. And the Department of Energy is doing an outstanding job in a progressive transition to renewable energy. And on, and on....

 

[liveforphysics]

The so called "government" is not a monolithic structure acting synchronically. It is a vast bureaucracy, disjointed with multiple agencies under different leadership, many many people. Some parts are working quite well. I hope, for instance, that the Social Security Administration continues to parse out entitlements, as I am of that age. And despite what others may think, the Affordable Care Act has proved a God send for me and many people. And the Department of Energy is doing an outstanding job in a progressive transition to renewable energy. And on, and on....

The government +fed bank system functions as a harvesting tool to capture something like >90% of the wealth and resources the population works for and puts them into the care of <0.01% of the most corrupt individuals. The government traded your abundance and prosperity, to a select handful of bankers in exchange for making wage slaves and dependents of the system like yourself.

Department of energy gives most of our stolen money to profiteering petroleum companies to poison all life on earth with.

No comment on the broken 'system' (scam?) some describe as "healthcare" in the USA.

Fortunately, it still doesn't matter, there is maybe 2-10 years left before total collapse. Historically, no matter how big the empire, they don't survive over 1 year beyond the point someone decides it makes sense to assign it's own military to defend it's own government against it's own citizens. That's proven to be an unrecoverable tipping point, the sad thing is many folks who waived there own mind's thoughts and personal ethics in exchange for a uniform are so brainwashed they continue to obey orders to kill there own citizens for a few months during collapse, as though they believe additional government killings is going to solve or stop something inevitable.

 

[nutnspecial]

I can't help myself and this might be off topic? I agree with yours and Nep's comments, but in my mind collapse could be 2 days or 2000 years? I understand history's lesson, but this is my logic:

If there really is such a system of control in place, I think it's global, and it can use or quash nations at will. As long as this country is useful, (we are the world 'police' currently imo. and very pliable) it can and would be kept on 'life support'?

What also plays into my thinking is I wonder why we are allowed to know about the 'man behind the curtain'? Why wouldn't the 'system' make more terrorist chaos so the country would give away more freedom like to internet info? What is it after, division and a civil war? I have no clue, just thinking out loud. my2cents

 

[arkmundi]

Department of energy gives most of our stolen money to profiteering petroleum companies to poison all life on earth with...

Is not true. The big oil companies are adept at tax avoidance. And subsidy comes in multiple forms like land grants. All that is not the DOE. Yes, I would also like to see substantial cut-back on the subsidy, and a rapid move away from fossil fuel consumption. The DOE is an agency making that happen and doing quite well at.

 

[Chalo]

For years I have looked for any account of a steel high-rise building telescoping straight down into the ground from fire alone. To date I have found zero examples anywhere in the world, except for three adjacent buildings that did exactly that, all on the same day-- according to the official story.

I don't need to know any more details than that to know that the official story is a load of malarkey. We may never know exactly what happened, and frankly we don't have to. This event was the Reichstag fire of our time, and we know approximately who did it and why based on the events that followed.

I hope that the perpetrators (e.g. Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, et al) face justice while they are still alive, though I don't expect that they will.

 

[Eclectic]

If you watch the first tower collapse, it starts exactly where the plane compromised the corner of the outer skin of the building. It continued to collapse just as it was designed to (according to the designer), pancake on top of itself (not tip over). Either a lot of people were exceptionally good at designing and executing a perfect plan to demolish the building from the exact point the plane hit the building or it happened the way everyone else says it happened.

A controlled collapse/demolition a very long and involved process that usually takes weeks or more of preparation. It is not something that could be done secretly in a working building. When the main towers collapsed, the debris radiated out several hundred feet; more than enough to compromise other buildings in the complex.

If you said, “The US leadership knew of the attack and allowed it to happen anyway.” , I would say that’s possible. If you are telling me that they planned the whole thing and brought down the buildings using some kind of controlled demolition… do you truly believe that they could have planned and executed this perfectly??? Give me a break.

BTW – When I saw bin Laden kicking debris left by the cruise missile attack (I believe it was 1998) ordered by Pres. Clinton, my comment was “This guy is going to fire a bunch of Jihad cruise missile at us”. Surprise…a large plane with jet fuel as warhead and a Jihadie as the navigation system.