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GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

LightningRods said:
Hi Everyone-
I finally received the motor spindles that I ordered to machine down for 12mm output shafts. These are much longer than the GNG version but internally identical. I will be able to make 12mm output shaft much longer than needed (up to 2.4").
I will be offering these spindles machined down to 12mm output shafts at the choice of length of the customer. Square keyways and threaded ends available at request.
This is a great option for chain/belt upgrades. However, people should be aware of the fact that the process of take the motor apart is actually as complicated as filing down the shaft. Sometimes the bearings are tight fit and it will be som struggle to take it apart. We could probably make a good disassemble guide for the motor. On the last one i had to heat it on the stove to get the back cover off.
 
christerljung said:
LightningRods said:
Hi Everyone-
I finally received the motor spindles that I ordered to machine down for 12mm output shafts. These are much longer than the GNG version but internally identical. I will be able to make 12mm output shaft much longer than needed (up to 2.4").
I will be offering these spindles machined down to 12mm output shafts at the choice of length of the customer. Square keyways and threaded ends available at request.
This is a great option for chain/belt upgrades. However, people should be aware of the fact that the process of take the motor apart is actually as complicated as filing down the shaft. Sometimes the bearings are tight fit and it will be som struggle to take it apart. We could probably make a good disassemble guide for the motor. On the last one i had to heat it on the stove to get the back cover off.

That just saddens me as my DIY skills are like putting together Legos compared to many people on this forum. :(

I don't think this will stop me from trying though. :lol:
 
skyungjae said:
That just saddens me as my DIY skills are like putting together Legos compared to many people on this forum. :(

I don't think this will stop me from trying though. :lol:
Just make sure that your DIY methods aren't cost prohibitive like mine.
 
Sometimes the bearings are tight fit and it will be some struggle to take it apart. We could probably make a good disassemble guide for the motor. On the last one i had to heat it on the stove to get the back cover off.

Agree. Assembly also. Only thing keeping the shaft in is the loctite on the drive side bearing /pocket. If one fails to reassemble with some sort of locking compound on the outside of bearing / pocket, the shaft can be pulled out, with or without snap ring, bearing and all.
 
HELP!!!!

I have been away for a few months and this afternoon I tried to go for a ride. I plugged in my 2 6s 5000 ah zippy lipo and nothing happened when I pulled on the throttle. I checked and triple checked but to no avail????? Is there something simple that could have gone wrong.

I have a standard set up and I haven't touched it since the last time I rode it with no issues. I know there is power I checked? no loose connections?

Any ideas.

thank you in advance.

Sirbevalot.
 
Sirbevalot said:
HELP!!!!

I have been away for a few months and this afternoon I tried to go for a ride. I plugged in my 2 6s 5000 ah zippy lipo and nothing happened when I pulled on the throttle. I checked and triple checked but to no avail????? Is there something simple that could have gone wrong.

I have a standard set up and I haven't touched it since the last time I rode it with no issues. I know there is power I checked? no loose connections?

Any ideas.

thank you in advance.

Sirbevalot.

Did you try wiggling the yellow box?
 
I feel silly asking a simply question between all these amazing mods..

I took my BB out today, the adjustable part was on the left, the GNG one indicates it's on the right, I couldn't get it in that way, my threads seem to be bad, I managed to get it in with the adjustable part on the left so counter to what the sticker indicates, both side basically have the same length .. does it really matter? Isn't it just a bearing in it anyways?
IMG_20130501_214239.jpg
So my BB shell is 68mm, the GNG BB is a little over 73mm, are the sheets supposed to go in between the BB and the shell and absorb the additional width? I'm still waiting for my sheets hence the silly question.. Where would the PAS go, BB shell -> GNG sheet -> PAS ring -> BB ?

Thanks so much!!
 
I had to troubleshoot for a customer today who had received a GNG kit. The freewheel didn't (freewheel). Can't say as I was surprised, actually.

You get what you pay for, or in the case of GNG stuff, maybe you don't.
 
hillyterrain - The bottom bracket can only go one way, as one side is right hand thread and the other is left hand thread. Several other people have found that the sticker on the GNG supplied bottom bracket is on backwards. Cheap bottom brackets.

The plates that hold the motor go between the flange on bottom bracket and the motor on one side. The other side has a lock ring that threads on after you put the plate over the bottom bracket. Hope \that makes sense.

Clay
 
skyungjae said:
Sirbevalot said:
HELP!!!!

I have been away for a few months and this afternoon I tried to go for a ride. I plugged in my 2 6s 5000 ah zippy lipo and nothing happened when I pulled on the throttle. I checked and triple checked but to no avail????? Is there something simple that could have gone wrong.

I have a standard set up and I haven't touched it since the last time I rode it with no issues. I know there is power I checked? no loose connections?

Any ideas.

thank you in advance.

Sirbevalot.

Did you try wiggling the yellow box?


I'm so stupid........ I had my series and parallel wires mixed up!!! :oops: :oops: :oops: all working now. Thanks for your reply
 
hillyterrain said:
I feel silly asking a simply question between all these amazing mods..
It's been covered previously. L and R refer to the thread, not orientation.

Chalo said:
The freewheel didn't (freewheel)
Since you been very -ve towards the GNG since day one you need to support your claim with some evidence.
 
hillyterrain said:
what the sticker indicates,
The sticker is wrong, mine was the same.
 
Chalo said:
I had to troubleshoot for a customer today who had received a GNG kit. The freewheel didn't (freewheel). Can't say as I was surprised, actually.

You get what you pay for, or in the case of GNG stuff, maybe you don't.

I'm not surprised. If I were running the GNG chainring set up, I'd probably have replaced the 16T freewheel with a White ENO by now too.
 
Chalo said:
I had to troubleshoot for a customer today who had received a GNG kit. The freewheel didn't (freewheel). Can't say as I was surprised, actually.

You get what you pay for, or in the case of GNG stuff, maybe you don't.

Hi Chalo

Yes, you don't pay much so it would be foolish to expect campy/shimano quality. I replaced much of mine as soon as I saw the kit. Look at the bright side, you get to be a hero with your customer and stand on your soapbox all in one fail swoop. If you play your cards right, you will have a customer for life. What we call a two-fer. It is a Three-fer if you include all the giggles riders get thinking of your reluctance to accept the significantly sized mid drive trend while riding un-heard of places with all the low cost GNG drive inspired bikes.
 
The Austrian EGO kit doesn't seem to have any issues. It uses a White-Industries ENO freewheel, and comes from the factory with an ISIS crankset, along with other higher-quality components. Sounds good, right? It costs $3,000 without a bicycle, and that price includes a 48V 12.5-Ah LiMn battery pack.

An $800 cell_man 50V / 18-Ah Samsung triangle pack and a $400 GNG with $200 worth of upgrades is around $1,400. There's got to be other comparable choices, but I don't know what they are right now...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=49777
http://www.electricbike.com/ego-kit/
ego-kits.jpg
 
spinningmagnets said:
The Austrian EGO kit doesn't seem to have any issues. It uses a White-Industries ENO freewheel, and comes from the factory with an ISIS crankset, along with other higher-quality components. Sounds good, right? It costs $3,000 without a bicycle, and that price includes a 48V 12.5-Ah LiMn battery pack.

An $800 cell_man 50V / 18-Ah Samsung triangle pack and a $400 GNG with $200 worth of upgrades is around $1,400. There's got to be other comparable choices, but I don't know what they are right now...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=49777
http://www.electricbike.com/ego-kit/
ego-kits.jpg

Well, it does seem that Cyclone would be the direct competitor when it comes to the GNG, but it isn't without flaws either. In my very subjective opinion and very limited experience, I feel I've made the best choice in going the GNG Gen 1 route w/ the changes I have made. I don't like to use the word "upgrade," because most of my changes are based on personal preference and riding style/conditions.

I love the White Industries ENO and recommend it to all GNG users, but at the same time I don't think it's one of those "must have" items. Same goes for the ISIS BB upgrade (<---- definitely an upgrade no matter how you look at it), but again, it's not necessary for those who are sticking to the street, paved pathways, and mild trails. Jackshaft adapter for 30mm freewheels is definitely not a necessity, but I do like the 13T ACS Crossfire over the 12T Fanphy.

I've been told that the gear boxes on the Cyclone motors need to be replaced periodically as often as every 3 months. I don't know how true this is, but I'd rather replace the GNG belt. :wink:
 
Hello All,

I had the chance to take a 15 mile ride today with a friend and something I thought I noted some weeks back while running 18S30A and maximum power for 5-8 mile stretches, my bike started to act weird. This was with a lyen 6FET.

Now after a while it seemed maybe it was just breaking in but there was a jitteryness to take off even in first gear at low throttle once I got up to speed it ran fine so I didn't worry too much but my cadence was way off and I don't mind pedaling when it's safe and I'm not due at work sweat less.

I reduced the voltage to 12S 44.4v nominal 15AH 25C a short while ago and the cadence matching in 1st and second gear leave something to be desired but then once I get into higher than 4th (7 speeds) the ability to pedal along is available even at maximum motor power (about 1800w) - thing is, that startup is still and has been for two or more weeks stuttery at best - closest I can explain for those who know, it feels like a sensorless motor trying to find sync.

As we were on the ride today my bike died twice, I first was very concerned I blew something - turned off, on, nothing. Finally I reached down and moved the pulley wheel by maybe 1/2" and tried the throttle and whalla - power again. On the second instance same thing happened, moved the wheel and whalla off to the races - still with the stutter.

The best I can guess is that a hall sensor is either dislodged, malfunctioning or my controller is having issues with a single channel of the controller more specifically with the hall processing circuitry feeding the MCU and gate drive.

Since swapping out controllers is the simplest thing to do (roughly plug and play) - I will try swapping in the stock controller and another lyen controller, I have a spare GNG v1 drive sitting here waiting to be installed on a 9FS downtube (one hub and one GNG) and although I don't want to pull the motor - it may be the only solution....

If I do pull the motor, I want to see about setting up delta / wye shifting and perhaps reinforcing the halls if that is indeed the issue I'm dealing with - I would use a sensorless controller but my lowest power sensorless is 100A and that would do thermal damage for sure.

Guess if I pull the motor, I will open the new spare too and add some digital temp probes to collect operational temperature of the motors - my infrared works well but it would be better to log the data.

Anyone else had any similar apparent hall sensor issues? Sound like something else to an expert?

Regards,
Mike
 
once again ,, remove the yellow block out of the wireing ,, they are a pain at times and give just what you have described ,
i have had no problems since i got rid of that, and the terminals on the end of the 3 wires.
 
justlooking said:
once again ,, remove the yellow block out of the wireing ,, they are a pain at times and give just what you have described ,
i have had no problems since i got rid of that, and the terminals on the end of the 3 wires.

Thanks I would consider that if I had ever setup using that - all my connections for phase and power are 5mm Gold Plugs, well soldered. Hall sensors aren't connectors they are to soldered.

-Mike
 
Hi Skyugjnge
"
I've been told that the gear boxes on the Cyclone motors need to be replaced periodically as often as every 3 months. I don't know how true this is, but I'd rather replace the GNG belt. "

I have seen many other people also comment that the teeth wear out rapidly on the Cyclone and EGO kits as they use the same motor and gearbox, converting the gearboxes to oil will be a good idea to DIY or i have seen the new AFT kit with the oil conversion option with some low friction oil. Oil lubrication is better at high rpm as it can cool the teeth, which grease cannot. I think grease is good only for low rpm usage .
 
The headline motor (cyclone and aft) gearboxes are better than they used to be. From what I have seen here, most people that have bought one in the last couple of years have had little to no problem with them. Of course if you often crack the throttle wide open and shock load the system all the time, nothing will last. I have been using mine with the original grease for at least 1000 km now and it sounds like the day I got it.

As for the ego kit, you would do better buying the motor from cyclone Taiwan, a controller from lyen, and making your own freewheel crank and a copy of their mounting bracket. It would cost far less, if you have the skills.

The beauty of the GNG is the quite reduction. For a descent price you get a quality motor and solid controller (not programmable though) and can afford to make some "upgrades". In the end you get a a descent mid drive that is reliable at a reasonable price and it is quiet.

Clay
 
Chalo said:
I had to troubleshoot for a customer today who had received a GNG kit. The freewheel didn't (freewheel)..

Well that's great to hear Chalo, i knew you would join us supporters of the great GNG-drive sooner or later. :mrgreen:

Seriously, do you happen to know the difference between a 8-speed system, like HG-40 and a 9-speed system with HG-90 chain? Is the HG-40 much stronger? Is it wider?
btw, i still haven't snapped a HG-40 chain with my +3kw GNG. But i does jump coggs in the lowest gears(11,13) when accellerating hard above 50kp/h.
 
christerljung said:
Seriously, do you happen to know the difference between a 8-speed system, like HG-40 and a 9-speed system with HG-90 chain? Is the HG-40 much stronger? Is it wider?
btw, i still haven't snapped a HG-40 chain with my +3kw GNG. But i does jump coggs in the lowest gears(11,13) when accellerating hard above 50kp/h.

An 8-speed chain is slightly wider, but with the same internal clearance for sprocket teeth. The 9-speed chain has more heavily riveted pins to withstand the same forces projected on smaller areas. Neither 8- nor 9-speed chains can be unpinned without damaging them, so using a snap link or special flared rivet pin to reassemble them is mandatory.

The skipping you describe is the result of pitch elongation of your chain, combined with resultant tooth wear of your smallest sprockets. There are various tools for measuring pitch elongation, and any bicycle service shop will have one available to check your chain. If the chain is worn to an indicated 1% elongation, you may assume that it has worn out your sprocket teeth in turn. Often (but not always), such tooth wear is visible as small ridges of upset metal on the back edges of the teeth. The sprocket below labeled as "slightly worn" is characteristic of cassettes that skip under load.

100_6375.JPG


11 tooth sprockets wear to destruction quickly even in pedal-only applications, which is mitigated by the fact that muscle-powered cyclists don't use the 11t sprocket very much if they use the correct ring for conditions. For wear life and mechanical robustness, using bigger rings and sprockets to achieve the same overall ratios is always better than using smaller cassette sprockets.

As an example, a 14-32 cassette has the same overall range as an 11-25 cassette. If you use a common MTB crank with a 42t large ring in combination with an 11-25 cassette, then you could switch to a common road bike crank with a 53t large ring and a 14-32 cassette, and have equal gearing with much better durability of your chain and sprockets. If you are already using a 52t or 53t ring with an 11t cassette, then you can get a 60t ring and a 13t cassette for an equivalent high gear. You'll have more teeth to distribute loads and wear, the chain will articulate through smaller angles, and it will be under less tension at the same crank RPM and power.

7-speed sprockets are a little bit thicker than 8-speed, which are a little bit thicker than 9-speed. Likewise, the wear surfaces inside the chain become a little smaller as you increase the number of gears. So for high power applications, using fewer gears yields significantly better durability. This effect is smaller than the effect of using larger sprockets, though.
 
MWKeefer, I had the same issues you have been describing and am wondering if you are using the gng throttle, My problems went away after changing back to stock controller and stock throttle. I was running 12s 2p lipo.
Cheers
Andrew
 
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