Have $3-4k to spend

[nukezero]

Originally, I was planning on converting my Townie Electra 21D 26" but now I am reconsidering options now.

I have about about $3-4k to spend.

1st let's talk about my requirements and goals:

Rider weight: 150lb - 5'10"
1. $3-4k USD to spend
2. Buying new bike is nice as everything is integrated into frame, battery, cables, etc., but conversion of electra townie is fine since it is considerably cheaper.
3. 25MPH minimum 30mph cap. Ebikekit should achieve this at 48V geared 350watt.
4. Typically I only bike 5-10 miles around town. Occasionally will bike at public events that are 25 miles total range.

At this point, I have several options to reconsider:

1. Continue on with a custom kit again but go with E-BikeKit in America. Battery will be from AllCellTech 48V13ah. Kit will be $1430 shipped for everything. Cheapest and simplest option. But battery will be mounted in a Topeak rear pack. Very concerned about center of gravity, even at 4.5kg battery weight.

2. Buy a complete E-Bike like the Specialized Turbo, Stromer ST1 Platinum, or EasyMotion Neo Race or Neo Jumper. Although these are more expensive bikes, but they are much cleaner, more integrated, and lower center of gravity and better 50/50 weigh distribution. The batteries are limited at 36V/9Ah which is probably only good for 10mi full throttle and 20mi assisted. I could buy a second battery. The problem is higher chance of theft, more worry when locking bike up due to fear of high-priced bike, and too powerful for casual beach cruising. Also, worried that if these companies go down, then the entire bike is useless as I won't be able to get parts. Mainly the integrated battery and controller.

3. Consider buying a cheapass e-bike like the e-zip Trailz or e-zip Skyline. This bike operates at 24V 10Ah and I was pretty damn impressed with the torque for 24V. The reason being was that this bike using a chain drive rear motor system, so it had pretty good torque. The bike itself was $599 and up to $899 with Li-Ion battery. The only con is that the bike does have a cheap feeling to it. The handle bars and grip felt very Walmart-ish.

I am also moving to Irvine, CA very soon. For those of you who don't know, Irvine is one of the largest master planned communities in Southern California. We have tons of bike lanes and the speed limit here is 50-60mph on regular surface streets. So going 30mph should be relatively safe here as the roads are 4-5 lanes wide in 1 direction, well-paved, and clean.

 

[teklektik]

Contact Ilia at Ebikes SF. He supplied the motors, wheels, and controllers for my bike.

He is a stand-up guy with 100% product support. He sells BMCs so you you can essentially get a drop-in replacement for your MAC design. His wheel builds are top notch so you can the whole deal nearby in SF.

Best to email or talk by phone - his website does not reflect all the options.

 

[nukezero]

Contact Ilia at Ebikes SF. He supplied the motors, wheels, and controllers for my bike.

He is a stand-up guy with 100% product support. He sells BMCs so you you can essentially get a drop-in replacement for your MAC design. His wheel builds are top notch so you can the whole deal nearby in SF.

Best to email or talk by phone - his website does not reflect all the options.

Yes, I did contact Ilia, although he does not sell the Mac, only BMC. The entire kit does seem to be much more pricey. In addition, I have to pay sales tax. he only carries the 20ah pack in stock and that is a whopping $1400 alone with tax and shipping. Too much.

I've also contacted SDElectricBike and they do have some parts in stock but not minor accessories.

I've made my decision and I think I'm going to give eBikeKit a shot. The owner promised me he could ship out ASAP this next week. I am tired of dancing around and waiting for kits to arrive overseas. I've just about lost my patience. It does seem slightly on the higher end of the price compared to what the Mac kit provides, but the service seems superior and the kit looks top-notch in craftsmanship. BionX is also nice but seems completely overpriced for such a small battery pack.

Thanks

 

[DAND214]

Question : is this your first build?
If so, EBIKEKIT will be a breeze. All plug and ride, you can plug it togeather with your eyes closed. Great servive but no options.
If you want a great kit with some skills required, go back with Cell-Man's MAC kits.

I won't say the EBIKEKIT will be a diappointment cause it woun't.

But where is the fun of doing soething yourself.

Go buy a prebilt and be done! Change the handle bars and grips and go.

Dan

 

[samoloh]

Hey,
am new to e bikes and I want a conversion kit that can take me up to 30mph-40mph if i want, also i am 5"5 about 60 kg.
This might be a long shot since am only willing to spend between $700-$800
I checked out the cell-Man's kits are the kits and batteries they have on there good enough?

Question : is this your first build?
If so, EBIKEKIT will be a breeze. All plug and ride, you can plug it togeather with your eyes closed. Great servive but no options.
If you want a great kit with some skills required, go back with Cell-Man's MAC kits.

I won't say the EBIKEKIT will be a diappointment cause it woun't.

But where is the fun of doing soething yourself.

Go buy a prebilt and be done! Change the handle bars and grips and go.

Dan

 

[dogman dan]

Nukezero, Given the speeds you want, you need the E-bikekit dd version. The little gearmotor won't be powerful enough to haul ass around like that.

Everything else good. I'm just now beginning a review of the new DD kit from E-bkikekit, and I'm massively impressed with the improvements since I last reviewed their kit about 4 years ago.

Same great motor, but the controller, rim, and all the plugs really kick ass on the new version. Slap that (rear motor) kit on the townie for now, and then consider possibly upgrading to a different bike later if your needs dictate it, like you would like full suspension or a longtail cargo bike.




Sam, uh, scratch up about 4x that much money, for a featherweight motorcycle, which is what I call a hot rod ebike. I do recommend EM3ev, but you don't see 40 mph out of 48v. 30 is quite possible though.

 

[nukezero]

Nukezero, Given the speeds you want, you need the E-bikekit dd version. The little gearmotor won't be powerful enough to haul ass around like that.

Everything else good. I'm just now beginning a review of the new DD kit from E-bkikekit, and I'm massively impressed with the improvements since I last reviewed their kit about 4 years ago.

Same great motor, but the controller, rim, and all the plugs really kick ass on the new version. Slap that (rear motor) kit on the townie for now, and then consider possibly upgrading to a different bike later if your needs dictate it, like you would like full suspension or a longtail cargo bike.




Sam, uh, scratch up about 4x that much money, for a featherweight motorcycle, which is what I call a hot rod ebike. I do recommend EM3ev, but you don't see 40 mph out of 48v. 30 is quite possible though.

dogman - I will revise my speed rating. 20mph minimum, 25mph tops. I think 30mph is too optimistic for the gear drive. You're right. But my goal is to keep weight down as much as possible. I rode a heavy e-bike at the bike shop and definitely weight was such a big factor including the CG. The bike literally wanted to tip over like a motorcycle when at a standstill.

I still feel the gear motor is right for me, so I'll stick with that. If it isn't adequate, I'll upgrade to something else down the line and give the kit to my girl's townie bike. She'll eventually need a kit too.

Thanks for the advice, and I can't wait to see your review of the DD e-bikekit.

 

[nukezero]

Also, does anyone know who/where and the best place to buy a 48V12Ah or better capacity battery from a China supplier that has the battery in the aluminum case with the lock key?

There are some options I found including:

1. Conhismotor 48V20ah - $625 shipped
2. BMSbattery has the 48V15Ah for $368 + shipping
3. Rest of the ebay ones.

Here's the problem. Most of the battery don't list the chemistry. So I believe they are LiMnCo2. They are also quite heavy at 6.5kg+ for 10-15Ah. Also, I don't know about the battery quality, grade, and it's long term life.

My original plan is to go with AllCellTech's 48V13Ah which is only 3.7KG and I can stick that in my TopPeak MTX bag. Plus I have room to throw in other stuff in the bag and still take the bag with me. Much easier to lug around. Although the Aluminum case look is much nicer.

 

[dogman dan]

Nothing wrong with the allcell plan, especially since you could just order the whole kit from EbikeKit that way.

I'm not sure what the speed of the small motor from Ebikekit is at 48v, but 20 for sure I'd think. It just depends on the winding they use on that motor. 25 quite possible at 48v with most.

Another vendor to look at for the battery, is EM3ev. He sells a very nice triangle shaped battery and matching bag.

Top heavy an issue? then forget that rack carry battery. That's the problem, not how heavy the hub was. I'm not knocking light, that's one reason I like the 28mm dd motors, they are much lighter than the monster hubs.

 

[nukezero]

So...... I have an announcement to make. I decided to ditch efforts to build my first ebike all together. There were many reasons to this decision including the following:

1. high shipping prices from overseas, long shipping times
2. risk of not receiving what you ask for, difficulty In support
3. un-clean look
4. my stock townie will require a lot of upgrades later on (Disc brakes, wider tires, etc.)

While I do know e-bikekit has a good kit and customer service and is based in USA, I feel that that kit may not be suitable for what I want. So today, I just bite the bullet and picked up something completely off the shelf that matched all the needs I wanted.

My requirements were:

1. Atleast 25MPH, 48V, geared
2. Good weight, center of gravity
3. Disc brakes
4. Better tires
5. Multi-speed but didn't care too much about 21speed.
6. Atleast 20 mile range.

So I picked up a Motiv 48V bike! It's a bafang BPM motor 48V500watt (code 12). I was wide-open-throttle for a good mile and the motor was not even hot. Honestly, I would say I hit a top speed of about 27mph but the battery was not fully topped off when I bought it. This bike turns a lot of heads and I'm sure a lot of thieves.

The first ride really definitely sold me. The amount of money I spent for this bike was pretty much close to buying the entire Mac 10T kit from Em3ev. The only difference being sure that his battery would have been 18.5Ah NCM triangle, plus the cycle analyst. But there is something truly nice about the Motiv that I noticed.

1. The fact that it uses a Bafang BPM motor means I can probably buy spare parts overseas later myself for a couple hundred bucks.
2. The spare battery appears to be marked as NCM and I can buy a spare battery on eBay that looks to be direct fit for a couple hundred bucks. So it looks like the aftermarket support for this bike is very strong. That wouldn't be the case if I had bought a battery integrated into the frame like iZip, Easy Motion, or Specialized Turbo.
3. The battery is placed in the center of the downtube and runs down the bike. The bike has excellent weight distribution ratio, I would say probably 47/53 front/rear. And it does not want to tilt over. I rode the other iZip and eZip bikes that had the rear battery rack. They definitely felt rear end heavy and dogman, you were right, they had a tendency to want to tip over. Not good.
4. The motor is quiet but when I reverse, I do feel a bit of resistance.
5. Components seem to be top notch quality. I would say the Electra has slightly better quality components but not by that much.
6. Unfortunately, the bike is only a 6 speed. I looked at the dropout and it seems that it has enough space for another cog wheel for 7 speed. Maybe I'll throw on a 11T DNP freewheel one day.
7. The wide tires 2.3" really help a lot on grip and stability. Going that fast, it is pretty much too late when I see a pothole. I hang on for dear life and these Kenda tires absorb the impact well.
8. I don't know about battery life yet, but 10Ah was told to get 18-20miles.
9. Lastly, I did not pay the outrageous $2149 for this bike. I got an excellent discount. As I mentioned, I only paid pretty much as what I would have spent on the em3ev kit.

If I had bought the em3ev kit, I probably would have had to blow several hundreds more to upgrade to disc brakes, wider tires, and such.

I think I made the right choice for sure.

At this point, I am not sure if I will keep my Electra Townie or sell it. I have posted the bike up on craigslist and see if there are any takers. If not, I may keep it as a backup bike.

Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[Eskimo]

Very nice bike. That bike"s weight distribution is way more rear heavy than those figures though, you on the saddle. I have pretty similar cruiser with front DD hub and battery under the saddle like yours, and it"s 65/35.
Have a scale, if you don"t believe.

 

[nukezero]

Very nice bike. That bike"s weight distribution is way more rear heavy than those figures though, you on the saddle. I have pretty similar cruiser with front DD hub and battery under the saddle like yours, and it"s 65/35.
Have a scale, if you don"t believe.

you're probably right. I'm not gonna go measure it. But it was definitely not as horrible as the Currie bikes I tested. Those bikes with the heavy SLAs above the rear tire was really dragging it down. The only other bikes that would have better 50/50 ratio would've been the EZ Motions and iZips with integrated battery. But now we're talking over $3k for only 36V power. Not my cup of tea. Speed and power was what I want.

 

[dogman dan]

Well, had I seen buying that as an option from the first post, I would have said grab it.

Good call, that looks like it fits all your needs just about perfect. That's a much better looking bike than many of the ready made options. The frame makes sense to me, and resembles the townie geometry enough to please you real good.

 

[oneinch]

The Motiv bike looks great. My only knock would be that I wish Motiv would swap the seat post and battery position. I would much prefer a peddle forward bike. Other than this you have a really sharp bike.

 

[nukezero]

The Motiv bike looks great. My only knock would be that I wish Motiv would swap the seat post and battery position. I would much prefer a peddle forward bike. Other than this you have a really sharp bike.

You're right. It is slightly rear-end heavy. But this is a small compromise. The placement of the battery means it is out of my thighs way. Another great thing about this battery is that you can easily get upgraded replacements from overseas China. There is a super range 48V 20Ah which is 3 inches taller and 2 lbs heavier. This quickly allows easy upgradeability.

For the other bikes that have integrated battery in-frame design like the BH Easy Motion bikes, there is absolutely no other way to upgrade those battery packs to a larger capacity if ever. But those bikes have the best CG weight ratio no doubt, but they lack range with their low power capacities.

I did consider the BH Easy Motion Neo Jumper. But the 9Ah proprietary battery pack turned me off as well as the lack of aftermarket support. I will wait another year or so before they can increase battery densities and try to fit atleast 13Ah into the frame tube.

It's all about compromises. But the Motiv doesn't disappoint.

 

[spinningmagnets]

The Bafang/BPM phase wires can easily be doubled. Here's a pic breakdown of that motors internals: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=51237

If you have a few bucks left over since your purchase, I always recommend to hardtails to try a Thudbuster (which I have one) or the recently available Tamer Pivot Plus. The Thudbuster uses rubber plugs (elastomers) as the compression spring, and the Pivot-plus uses a coil-spring that is set inside the seat-post.

The Cirrus Body float is a newcomer with two external coil springs.

 

[nukezero]

If you have a few bucks left over since your purchase, I always recommend to hardtails to try a Thudbuster (which I have one) or the recently available Tamer Pivot Plus. The Thudbuster uses rubber plugs (elastomers) as the compression spring, and the Pivot-plus uses a coil-spring that is set inside the seat-post.

The Cirrus Body float is a newcomer with two external coil springs.

wow that's a nice piece of hardware! I have been looking for ways to improve the rear hardtail suspension. The Motiv has a seat post suspension but it's not like the real thing of course. Hitting small cracks in the road at 25mph is downright uncomfortable.

But I will definitely check that out. I also keep my tires at 40psi. The Kenda Small block eight tire recommends 30 to 50psi, the bike shop pushes it over 50psi. But I find that around 40psi is the best compromise in terms of ride quality and top speed. At 50psi or more, it just rides like a rock.

edit: The body float is a sticker shocker! $349 !!!! The video on the website looks like it works but that's a ton of cash to drop down for a seat post suspension system.

I think I may just pick up the Thudbuster long travel. How do you like it? Amazon reviews so far seems great, except some people say it breaks at the pivot bolts. Others say it will require build after about 6 months.

 

[RICK]

I've had no issues in 3 full seasons with my LT thudbuster, it really helps.
Your Motiv is a sharp looking machine! I just dropped about 3k on a Surly LHT based build, but may have done it differently if i had seen the Motiv.

 

[nukezero]

I've had no issues in 3 full seasons with my LT thudbuster, it really helps.
Your Motiv is a sharp looking machine! I just dropped about 3k on a Surly LHT based build, but may have done it differently if i had seen the Motiv.

Sounds good. Then I shall pick up a LT thudbuster on Amazon!

Thanks, I do love the Motiv looks. It attracts a lot of attention in good ways and bad.

 

[RoadWrinkle]

Nuke as you know, I just bought the same Motiv cruiser. In this config:

Will post a full review when it arrives (shipped to Maui) Spinning magnets is on it with the recommends...


BTW: called Cameron back after seeing your all red machine, looks great and better to be seen by cars. He was going to ship after the Holiday anyway, so he was able to change my order...sorry I am a copycat! :lol: :lol:

 

[100volts+]

Nuke, If you are like the majority of ES members, you will soon be wanting to go on your "first build" journey. Your first commercially finished ebike is just the appetite wetter.

 

[nukezero]

Nuke, If you are like the majority of ES members, you will soon be wanting to go on your "first build" journey. Your first commercially finished ebike is just the appetite wetter.

Yes I know that. I'm already eyeing a build of a BMC from ebikessf. I still want to keep weight down and I heard BMC is the top of the line of all geared hubs. I originally planned to get a Mac Kit from Em3ev but that plan fell through due to unforeseen shipping issues.

But after having been through minor problems with this commercial ebike , I can see that it is equally important to have a vendor here in the USA for the support and turn-around time for parts replacement.

I will eventually retire my Motiv bicycle to my girlfriend and pick up a custom build. But at the same time, I'm also curious to see what Interbike has to offer next month. The only thing I don't like about home-made build is the lack of support. Plus, one would have to spend more money to upgrade components on a skeleton bike.

I'm hoping at Interbike, somebody will have designed a one of a kind, triangular battery frame with the latest all Cell or NCM pack that is a whopping 15-20Ah and is slim and slender, BMS, 2-year warranty, low price, and aluminum cased.

 

[RoadWrinkle]

Nuke, If you are like the majority of ES members, you will soon be wanting to go on your "first build" journey. Your first commercially finished ebike is just the appetite wetter.

I was thinking the same thing...so when bought the Motiv, I thought once the 500w DD rear hub "retires" would use the Motiv as a donor for a 1000w system...frame, wheels, disc's its already ready!

 

[nukezero]

Nuke, If you are like the majority of ES members, you will soon be wanting to go on your "first build" journey. Your first commercially finished ebike is just the appetite wetter.

I was thinking the same thing...so when bought the Motiv, I thought once the 500w DD rear hub "retires" would use the Motiv as a donor for a 1000w system...frame, wheels, disc's its already ready!

RoadWinkle, actually the Motiv is a geared Bafang 48V500w motor. Code 12. It is a nice-wound motor. Right in between good torque and high speed.

Where did you get the Motiv if I may ask and what color combo did you go with?

The Bafang CST is supposedly the next best motor to get as you can slap on a 9-10 speed cassette. So that'll be an awesome upgrade. I was told Motiv already has some in prototype so maybe I can upgrade to those next year. I would like to get a 10-speed cassette on the rear. Also, the dropout is actually quite wide. When I was taking the rear tire out, I noticed the dropout was actually compressed quite a bit. I measured about 144mm inner diameter with the wheel attached, but there's atleast another 10mm of space total to get a nice large cassette in there when the wheel is off and the dropout is open.

 

[RoadWrinkle]

Nuke, If you are like the majority of ES members, you will soon be wanting to go on your "first build" journey. Your first commercially finished ebike is just the appetite wetter.

I was thinking the same thing...so when bought the Motiv, I thought once the 500w DD rear hub "retires" would use the Motiv as a donor for a 1000w system...frame, wheels, disc's its already ready!

RoadWinkle, actually the Motiv is a geared Bafang 48V500w motor. Code 12. It is a nice-wound motor. Right in between good torque and high speed.

Where did you get the Motiv if I may ask and what color combo did you go with?

The Bafang CST is supposedly the next best motor to get as you can slap on a 9-10 speed cassette. So that'll be an awesome upgrade. I was told Motiv already has some in prototype so maybe I can upgrade to those next year. I would like to get a 10-speed cassette on the rear. Also, the dropout is actually quite wide. When I was taking the rear tire out, I noticed the dropout was actually compressed quite a bit. I measured about 144mm inner diameter with the wheel attached, but there's atleast another 10mm of space total to get a nice large cassette in there when the wheel is off and the dropout is open.

Because shipping to Maui was an issue, I went directly thru Cameron at Motiv...originally picked colors in the pic I posted, then I saw your red baron...and...well...