Hi All

[full-throttle]

bet, very strategic move there on ur part.
always a good idea 2beet a hasty retreat after insertin foot in ones mouth
(hopping off he goes like a 1leg kangaroo, or 'booomer' as rolf harris wud say)

didn't even need to lay down the trump card if anyone cares to confirm or deny.
if shocks didn't waste energy, why do the higher price ones come equipped with a lockout feature??

millions of mtbers can't all be wrong.

Nah. Just had enough of the troll. I'd rather ride a bike than argue about bikes with some douche hiding in some basement.

Lockout is to mask a bad design and/or a bad pedalling technique. It's very hard to design a shock that will allow for all the weight shifts during climbing and descending. Manufactures moved away from lockout to mode select these days.

Here's a quick video to illustrate how 'much' a 8" travel downhill fork moves (with pedalling) on a smooth road. The bit at the end is uphill. Like every top of the line DH fork it's the most expensive and doesn't have the lockout.
[youtube]W-TjpLck7Gs[/youtube]
So, how much energy is dissipated in a damper that doesn't even move

 

[dogman dan]

Posts are dissapearing from this thread now.

 

[HAROX]

Here's what I found, which may have NOTHING to do with E bikes, only life.

Whether experiencing Muhammad Ali in a prize fight, or running an air drill or jackhammer, or driving a long nail home, or deploying an airbag, and to a greater extent, using a sharp knife or riding a fully suspended bicycle, the blend of short fast strokes with a balanced suspension has been the difference between getting the job done in a reasonable amount of time, or getting the crap beat out of me and my tool(s) in a short time. Suspension always takes energy, also needing plenty of tuning to get right.

One reason newer bikes may sport some suspension has less to do with gaining absolute outstanding performance, and more to do with getting people to come buy another after the first one is shredded. Bicycle manufacturers found out, it's better to sell many bikes to one person than to sell only one which lands that person in the hospital. So they employ tunable suspensions. Some stay in tune, some don't.

Speed is a product of force, measured over distance in time. When the force is changed, so changes the time. Suspension/dampening by its very design slows down opposing force.

Muhammad Ali had excellent suspension, dancing this way and that, and when he closed in on his opponent he delivered short accurate strokes, not haymakers.

Why all the analogy? Sometimes analogy points to the same general study. You know, bicycle physics is no different from many other physical studies.

Rigid suspension is faster, sometimes distressing the framework.
Suspension/dampening is slower in relation, and that works to preserve framework.

Suspension is forgiving, not fast. Most, including myself, enjoy suspension, because we/I don't necessarily want to do it any other way than slow and sure.

 

[Chalo]

I'd rather ride a bike than argue about bikes with some douche hiding in some basement.

I guess you must be talking about someone who doesn't work on bikes every day for his living. Perhaps someone who doesn't use bikes as his sole means of regular transportation.

Lockout is to mask a bad design and/or a bad pedalling technique.

By "bad", I guess you mean pedaling for effect instead of just for show.

Here's a quick video to illustrate how 'much' a 8" travel downhill fork moves (with pedalling) on a smooth road.

I think you left out the scare quotes on "pedaling". My 35mm travel fork moves more than that when I'm pedaling, and it's set up for 20% sag. But then I'm actually supplying propulsion and not just moving my feet around to pretend I'm on a pushbike.

 

[winkinatcha]

Alright you two Enough FFS!

Some background that I know from the sidelines, mostly from here in E/S though have met full throttle.

Chalo has been in the bike industry for decades, runs his own successful bike shop, knows both the mEchanics and theory and has hands on, serious experience in the building tuning repairing and burying of bikes. He is extremely bicycle oriented, of high intelligence and practical abilities.. Hie is physically a big man, well over 6 foot, and tends to bulldoze in thread conversations, ultimately I think without malice, but sometimes it can cause some problems and conflict.

Full throttle has been in the bike industry for decades, both as a competitor (high level downhill MTB racing, though I suspect other road racing orientation as well) and as a mechanic, builder. His skills and abilities as a mechanic are legend locally here in Melbourne Aus. Prolly about my height (6') whipcord thin, very fit and extremely competant and stylish on a bike... in the one and only short time that I rode with him, All I could think was I NEED to get a camera on this guy. Full throttle has a better than working knowledge of electronics, has designed and built BMSs. and customised parts for his e-bikes... which are some of neatest builds I have seen. He obviously has a high level of intelligence and practical ability coupled with the self-assuredness that comes with it, often confused as arrogance by lesser mortals.

In a nutshell... you two guys are both coming from places of strength in your own experiences and arguments, however you both seem to have no idea or respect for the opposite party and you both have personalities that can be painful to watch when you make assumptions about the incompetence of whomever you are arguing with.

Get over yourselves and either have a decent conversation or leave this poor thread alone.

joe

 

[full-throttle]

Knobby tires don't get noticeably hot either, but they noticeably slow you down. I think forced air cooling is a factor in both cases.

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You were saying?

Checkmate