How good is Cyclone 4kw coaxial suspension bike?

[Hillhater]

Sure, im used to dealing with them, but this one is totally unclear if they have different frames or just a change in design at some stage.
We know the early frames were definitely steel , but i do not see them making those curved asymetric tubes in steel..that is classic Al forming . Are they different names ?
Both designs obviously exist, i would just like to know what i get if i order ?

 

[Sac037]

Ask paco.
If you buy a kit. Its chromolly.
The CAD drawings are of the chromolly one.
I think the alloy ones are their first proto type frames and not sold.

I got one of the first kits. The newer one has different rear frame parts with plastic bushings on the pivot plate. And bigger stronger bushings on the rear arm.
Mind you, my bike has copped a hiding with all the older stuff and its fine.
I also wanted the chromolly frame for strength.

 

[Tommm]

Sure, im used to dealing with them, but this one is totally unclear if they have different frames or just a change in design at some stage.
We know the early frames were definitely steel , but i do not see them making those curved asymetric tubes in steel..that is classic Al forming . Are they different names ?
Both designs obviously exist, i would just like to know what i get if i order ?

The cad drawings are the stuff you should go by.
You can get more informed from using both the elite-motor.com and the cyclone tw site.
The new skinnier frame looks like a cruiser bike, and it is very nice in person, the top tube and the seat stay are both curved a bit, it is really pretty. The side of the motor is painted too, not ugly silver.
It can fit a bigger battery too into the triangle, so I have no regrets over the new form. I have clearance under the downtube for the knobs on the top of the fork to go under, unlike dingus.
If you get small 26" wheels that will both put smaller stress on the drivetrain and you will be able to use the space behind the seat tube like I did, for the controller.

 

[markz]

Dude. Chinese sellers making shit up as they go along. Is it that hard for you to figure out?

They make any shit up, just to sell their shit

 

[Hillhater]

I will rephrase my question..
How do i get the frame with the curved downtube (Al ) ..it looks to be a smaller frame , smaller rear triangle etc.?
No need to debate the pros. & cons of Al vs Steel, geometry etc etc...
Just need to know what that frame is called ?

 

[Tommm]

I will rephrase my question..
How do i get the frame with the curved downtube (Al ) ..it looks to be a smaller frame , smaller rear triangle etc.?
No need to debate the pros. & cons of Al vs Steel, geometry etc etc...
Just need to know what that frame is called ?

Not possible. It was scrapped for some good reason.

 

[Hillhater]

Ahh ! OK.
Thanks Tommm
Are there any other commercial frames for this drive ?

 

[Tommm]

Ahh ! OK.
Thanks Tommm
Are there any other commercial frames for this drive ?

No, and not buying it because it evolved is silly.

 

[Hillhater]

No,..Not buying it because i do not like The design .

 

[Tommm]

No,..Not buying it because i do not like The design .

Since it is only this(stealth) or the sur ron(non stealth) if you want a high powered mid drive and don't want to spend $4k+, design considerations were a luxury for me. It does look wonky on pictures but in real life it looks like an FS beach cruiser style ordeal, grew on me very fast.

 

[Hillhater]

Sure tommm,
Stealth is the attraction, together with the potential performance, but it also has to appeal to me as an engineer.
I just assumed that since this type of coaxial drive and frame mount has been around for many years, there might be a wider choice of frames around .
Some of the other integrated crank drives (Brose, Bosch, Bafang ,etc) are also very stealthy ..(but spendy also).. And are available in a range of frame styles.
And to me, bikes are like meals or women, I dont want to pay for something I dont like the look of ..!

 

[Tommm]

Sure tommm,
Stealth is the attraction, together with the potential performance, but it also has to appeal to me as an engineer.
I just assumed that since this type of coaxial drive and frame mount has been around for many years, there might be a wider choice of frames around .
Some of the other integrated crank drives (Brose, Bosch, Bafang ,etc) are also very stealthy ..(but spendy also).. And are available in a range of frame styles.
And to me, bikes are like meals or women, I dont want to pay for something I dont like the look of ..!

The coaxial mount in 3kw+ applications is a new thing as it is not road legal pretty much anywhere so no big manufacturer wants to bite the bullet. Some small builders do similar things but are in a different price range like the luna apex/apollo or some even smaller builders like exess-bikes or optibike, all in the 5k+ range. I know because I looked high and low too.
After this there is no way I would go for an external chain reduction bike with a second chain, the coaxial design is just too good in comparison in durability and reliability.
For hub motor builds there is an ecosystem of a few frame builders basically cloning the clones of the stealth bomber with slight variations for better or (usually)worse. They have a much bigger variety to choose from.

 

[Hillhater]

Cyclone coaxial is probably unique in that power/price range, but there are other very similat coaxial drives around as you say like Optibike ($$$s), Bofeili, and some others from Tw and China ..but mostly < 1kW
And , i agree, a secondary chain drive is not in my future either.
I guess if high power is the priority , then Cyclone is the go, but i am more interested in the "Stealth" aspect of this drive and 1-2 kW would be enough for me, which gets me other options like Bafang Ultra, TSz3, possibly some of those other coaxial drives.
Actually, i could just buy a complete Bofeili powered ebike ($1100 new) and swap in a Cyclone drive

 

[DingusMcGee]

Tommm,

the design is like that by purpose

.

Nonsense....frocking Nonosense.

I suppose that my 4 Specialized bikes' disc brakes hardware just happened by design that they were made to fit perfectly for Shimano adapters with no washers ?


There likely are some placement standards for the disc brake braze-on. Standards that that get precise fit with no washer additions needed and Specialized by design uses them??

Face it Mr Tommm, this Cyclone Elite Frame is a misfit by design/quality control among bike frames but one can ge it wheeling down the road.

 

[Tommm]

Tommm,

the design is like that by purpose

.

Nonsense....frocking Nonosense.

I suppose that my 4 Specialized bikes' disc brakes hardware just happened by design that they were made to fit perfectly for Shimano adapters with no washers ?


There likely are some placement standards for the disc brake braze-on. Standards that that get precise fit with no washer additions needed and Specialized by design uses them??

Face it Mr Tommm, this Cyclone Elite Frame is a misfit by design/quality control among bike frames but one can ge it wheeling down the road.

Of course, being so far out of alignment that we have to use washers is bad design.
But, being able to move the brakes sideways inside the adapter is by purpose, it doesn't have to do with the bike. If you set up a big name mtb you will need to use this little wiggle room to have a precise fit too.
See:
https://youtu.be/l4hgbV_Hb7g?t=1m42s

 

[DingusMcGee]

Tommm,

Of course, being so far out of alignment that we have to use washers is bad design.
But, being able to move the brakes sideways inside the adapter is by purpose, it doesn't have to do with the bike. If you set up a big name mtb you will need to use this little wiggle room to have a precise fit too.

The wiggle room you speak of is 2 out-of-round slots on the Shimano Disc Brake Calipers -- Having to add washers has to do with frame building quality control -- something lacking in the Elite Frame which might be just lack of concern.

Or is this sloppiness just okay for little name mtn bike builders?

 

[Tommm]

The wiggle room you speak of is 2 out-of-round slots on the Shimano Disc Brake Calipers -- Having to add washers has to do with frame building quality control -- something lacking in the Elite Frame which might be just lack of concern.

Or is this sloppiness just okay for little name mtn bike builders?

It is not OK but after dealing with the Chineese through various industries I have came to expect it, and potential buyers should expect it too with these kind of things. I also had to sand down the inside of the headset crown race because it was just too small, even though I ordered the correct size, for example.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I tried to offer a deal where we would purchase, say, 10 of the cyclone coaxial drives and then fabricate/machine the proper bracket on ANY bike of your choice. The post was removed for some reason. I guess I'll build my own and go from there. I also located very quiet helical steel gears for the drive to replace the plastic ones. Oh well!

 

[Tommm]

I tried to offer a deal where we would purchase, say, 10 of the cyclone coaxial drives and then fabricate/machine the proper bracket on ANY bike of your choice. The post was removed for some reason. I guess I'll build my own and go from there. I also located very quiet helical steel gears for the drive to replace the plastic ones. Oh well!

You can ask for metal gears from cyclone now too. I have it and they do not seem louder than cyclones with plastic gears+chain reduction systems.

I would be more interested if cyclone made a 7.5kw coaxial drive bike...

 

[Hillhater]

I tried to offer a deal where we would purchase, say, 10 of the cyclone coaxial drives and then fabricate/machine the proper bracket on ANY bike of your choice. The post was removed for some reason. I guess I'll build my own and go from there. I also located very quiet helical steel gears for the drive to replace the plastic ones. Oh well!

Swampdonkey, your post is in the "For sale" section now....i guess a mod moved it .

 

[SwampDonkey]

I tried to offer a deal where we would purchase, say, 10 of the cyclone coaxial drives and then fabricate/machine the proper bracket on ANY bike of your choice. The post was removed for some reason. I guess I'll build my own and go from there. I also located very quiet helical steel gears for the drive to replace the plastic ones. Oh well!

Swampdonkey, your post is in the "For sale" section now....i guess a mod moved it .

Ah, ok that works. Id like to get a group together to justify making the custom tooling and jigs and such.

 

[olivier38]

Photos of almost finished elite bike.
The carbon fibre battery box has nostrils to cool the controller. Air flow travels up hill so water doesn't enter.
Its hard to tell in the photo. But the bike is huge. These are 29er rims with 2.4" tyres.

Hi, very nice job!
I just bought the same frame kit+motor. now I would like to mount a front derailleur because the chain line is very degraded. how do you install the front derailleur? it seems the offset between the vertical tube and the crankwheel is very wide and i'm not sure that with a "stock" derailleur bought to my local dealer will fit.
thank you (from France)

 

[Tommm]

Hi, very nice job!
I just bought the same frame kit+motor. now I would like to mount a front derailleur because the chain line is very degraded. how do you install the front derailleur? it seems the offset between the vertical tube and the crankwheel is very wide and i'm not sure that with a "stock" derailleur bought to my local dealer will fit.
thank you (from France)

What do you mean by bad chainline? You can loosen the bolts holding the motor and knock it to the desired position outwards/inwards with a rubber or wooden hammer. So the chainline is adjustable, even if you only use the 22t cog(which you should).
The chain should be straight going from the 22t chainring to the middle cog in your cassette, and that's the cog where you should use it the most, because the chain wears quicker if it is sideways.

 

[olivier38]

Hi, very nice job!
I just bought the same frame kit+motor. now I would like to mount a front derailleur because the chain line is very degraded. how do you install the front derailleur? it seems the offset between the vertical tube and the crankwheel is very wide and i'm not sure that with a "stock" derailleur bought to my local dealer will fit.
thank you (from France)

What do you mean by bad chainline? You can loosen the bolts holding the motor and knock it to the desired position outwards/inwards with a rubber or wooden hammer. So the chainline is adjustable, even if you only use the 22t cog(which you should).
The chain should be straight going from the 22t chainring to the middle cog in your cassette, and that's the cog where you should use it the most, because the chain wears quicker if it is sideways.

Hi,
OK, understood. I have to push motor towards the left side. Is it a problem if the right side of the motor is too much inside? that is to say, if the right side of the motor is inside the mounting cylinder? (pelase forgive me if my explanation is not very clear, so I hope the picture will help to understand).

 

[Tommm]

The motor is inside the cylinder for me too, I got it like that when it was shipped. It is about 1cm max inwards. When on the biggest cassette gear and 22t on front the chain is close to the rear wheel rubber, about 1cm away, but it does not touch(2.4" rubber). When in the middle gear of 9 speed cassette the chain is straight.

Be careful to tighten the screws back carefully, alternating between them to get them all same tightness. If you don't make it tight enough, the motor will slowly spin inside the cylinder while riding and will rip your wires apart. And don't make it too tight either as you are just pulling steel and there will not be a hard stop to it, before something breaks.

https://imgur.com/a/SdcApUK