HubMonster hits 107mph on the flats on page 6

Hubmonster on SuperV breaks 100mph on a voltage that sagged to 101V. 166kph = 103mph :shock:
Video is loading and for some reason my GPS didn't capture anything, so the CA is all I got for now. The video is real crap with the front tire vibrating a lot above 130kph, so I'll do it all again with more interesting video. Here's screen capture of my CA for now. Before the first stop I hit 142kph. Then I got in a better tuck and held max throttle for longer on the way back, which was even into some headwind and hit 166kph. :shock: It doesn't even feel that fast with the enclosed full face helmet, so the next run I may have to go without to get the full sensation. :twisted:

Posting what I have now in case something happens. 8)

CA at 142kph.JPG


This was on 30s with voltage sagging to 101V and a 13" scooter wheel that is 19.2" in diameter. Unless you run a much lighter load with great aero, this voltage is too high to run it in wheel. You spend way too much time at low duty and all that partial throttle creates a lot of motor and controller heat.

John
 
Video hitting 88mph (142kph) Peak input 236A at minimum voltage of 101V, so over 23kw
[youtube]r7y-0nw49Ro[/youtube]
 
I'll take a better video, but here it is for now. The helmet insulates me so much from the world that I didn't even realize I went that much faster than the 1st run, so I just took it easy to get some fresh air through the motor before stopping. I almost forgot to get my finger out of the way too. :lol:
[youtube]0avfYsLW28k[/youtube]

I doubt it has much more to give, at least with my aerodynamics but whales have pretty good aero with no-load at 194kph, so I'll call that top speed on 30s, unless your voltage is a lot stiffer than mine.

John
 
What an accomplishment! How long did it take to get to full speed? It's hard to tell with a video :? .
Please be careful and keep the helmet on 8) . Looked like a flat road too, wonder where the wobble comes from?
 
jansevr said:
there are not many words to describe this! im sure your bike is very well built, but i donno if i would trust bike components at 100mph. all the more power to you though - that must be one hell of a ride with that power/weight.
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I'm just doing it for the guys, and don't intend to keep it that fast, but going down a nice flat highway at 100mph is a lot less stress on the bike than the freeriding it's made for. My only real concerns WRT the bike in street riding is that front tire. I'll be switching over to a moped type rim and tire for the front in the near future. The best part is the acceleration. It just explodes to higher speed when traveling at anything between 30 and 70mph. Even at 80 it's no slouch.

Drunkskunk said:
Nice vid. I think my next bike will need one of these.
By the way, Happy 5 years on ES.
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Funny, after I do an obligatory low and sleek street rocket, my next bike will be to copy yours, but with my Midmonster or MiniMonster as a mid-drive and slightly more enclosed battery room. Thanks for pointing out my ES birthday....5 years ago today I knew absolutely nothing, and in the many thousands of hours since I picked up enough to get by and even understand the shortcomings of SuperV as it sits and how to ensure it's dead reliable, all thanks to all my friends on ES. I love you guys.

Trackman417 said:
What an accomplishment! How long did it take to get to full speed? It's hard to tell with a video :? .
Please be careful and keep the helmet on 8) . Looked like a flat road too, wonder where the wobble comes from?
Click to expand...

Thanks. I can't see the CA in speed position (focus on the road is mandatory anyway), so I don't know when I topped out, but when I took off I didn't go to max throttle. I spend very little time at full throttle (actually a bit less, since I have an issue at 100%), and during that run I probably spent less than 20 seconds total the 2 times I twisted it up to the max range. Above 90 acceleration is relatively slow, about 80-90 is okay, but everything below that feels like a sprinter exploding out of the blocks.

I have the phase/battery current limit ratio set to only 1.75:1, so with my all up load of right at 400lb, the first revolution or two from a full stop aren't as brutal as I've experienced. Those radical launches are too nerve racking for me anyway. I'll take the feeling of the front end almost wanting to lift at 50mph any day. :mrgreen:

John
 
Ok...that was really fast....
One broken Part of your Bike and your done with your Sandal-Outfit ....

I like those Freakstuff....but i cant follow why guys thinking that they have another skin at home when something goes wrong....

Congrats tou your "Record"...but please next Time wear some Boots, Gloves and Helmet. Your first Contact with the Road where your Hands. U cant do nothing about that because instincts to protect falling. Your hands will never solder something again after crashing at 100mph...

I dont like it to pray about security. but this time i am the one who take this part overthinking what we do.
maybe i have seen too much shit on the road driving motorcycles...maybe i lost to much guys while driving motorcycles ...


AND.....you Freaking Badass Es-World-Record-Speeder have to take more Videos from that speed shit :mrgreen:

so take care buddy. Ride on and think about what happens with your ass kissing the road at 100mph ;)
 
That is seriously balsy John.

Have you tracked the temperature of the motor at all? Is 230A pushing it?
 
grindz145 said:
That is seriously balsy John.
Have you tracked the temperature of the motor at all? Is 230A pushing it?
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I haven't hooked up the temp sensor to the CA yet, but the motor is vented and heating up too quickly for my taste. The current isn't the problem, because I ran it at 215A peak with the motor sealed for 9 months at 20s, and the phase current was higher with my non-programmable controllers, because I had a bit more out of the hole. The difference is the duty cycle, and the high voltage is resulting in much more time at partial duty and phase current multiplication.

This is stressful for both the controllers and the motor. The dual 24s with matched 4115's are getting hotter than I like too, enough so that the only hill I would attempt is one on the highway where I could keep minimum speed at 50-60mph.

I finally have my proof that PWM does a poor job of making the motor "see" a lower voltage. It "sees" a lower power, but with our 3 phase motors it is absolutely not the same as a lower voltage. Maybe for someone running a much lighter load 30s could be a valid voltage with this size wheel, but at the 400lbs or so all up, 30s is simply too high.

While I work dropping some serious weight, which is way way unhealthy (yet Merlin is worried about me wearing boots and gloves), once I get some good videos for you guys I'll put the two 5s strings of LiNMC's in parallel for 42ah and run lights off of that (I charge that portion of the pack separately, so that works). That will give me more speed than I need at over 80mph max, and I think it will relieve a lot of the system stress that's coming from too high a voltage.

The alternative is to figure out a way to install a 10" scooter rim to reduce the tire diameter by 15%. That might be enough lower gearing to relieve the stress, and going to a 20" in front instead of the 21.5" fatty Kenda Flame 20" might look ok. Plus lowering everything by over 2" means better aero too. Sure that might work, but I need to get on with a new build that isn;t so compromised. ie One that puts the batteries inside the frame instead of taking up so much space outside and around it, and takes a rear shock proper for the load, and gets all that weight out of the wheel.

This bike is great at 20s, and it's time for some new bikes. Now that I broke a hundred, I think it's time for a real road rocket that keeps itself charged by the sun except when it's cloudy for days, and still be able to go even faster and handle rain. I also need to build a bike similar to Drunkskunk's, but a mid-drive with more power and battery. I'm surrounded by mountain trails and it's high time I take advantage of them.

One improvement I will make is to add the blades to get more air flowing through the motor. Maybe that will allow me to leave it at 30s for a while longer. The way I did the ventilation slots, it's a simple matter that doesn't even involve opening the motor.

John

PS- more pics and video to come.
 
holy crap :shock: .

pulls like a freight train john.
 
Now that I think of it, who else broke 100mph? Nobody that I know of!
CONGRATS JOHN!
Send DoctorBass a PM and see what he has in store, lol he's probably buying nanotechs right now :wink: 8)
 
Trackman417 said:
Now that I think of it, who else broke 100mph? Nobody that I know of!
CONGRATS JOHN!
Send DoctorBass a PM and see what he has in store, lol he's probably buying nanotechs right now :wink: 8)
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Thanks, if the good Doctor wants to catch me using a hubmotor he needs to take a step up in quality and buy a HubMonster from me.

I think we have some friends in Europe who did some builds with the biggest scooter hubbies from Kelly and danced with 100mph/160kph, but the high pole count motors can't handle the high operating frequency well due to the cheap stator steel, and the speed wind versions of those motors are crazy hard on controllers. They had a lot of headaches with overheating motors and blown controllers.

John
 
Those are some great vids. Nice too see CR from an Ebike POV. Those 100mph sandals are just gangster.
 
That is beyond impressive. But the thing that stuck out with me was the helmet! :mrgreen:

We need to keep you around, so I like the safety additions. I'm saving my pennies for christmas now :D
 
cal3thousand said:
That is beyond impressive. But the thing that stuck out with me was the helmet! :mrgreen:
We need to keep you around, so I like the safety additions. I'm saving my pennies for christmas now :D
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I've always had a helmet, and wore it when I felt it was appropriate. The only safety measure at those speeds is using what's inside my head to avoid a crash, not protect the outside. With a bunch of falling practice that I'm not going to do maybe enough gear could allow me to slide done the road, but just like I have not interest in riding around in a cage, I'm not going to wear one either. My odds are a lot higher of getting injured in a fall around the house anyway, but I don't see anyone suggesting I wear protective gear around the house. I'll stick with accepting that I'm dead if I crash anywhere near these speeds and choose to ride with sufficient attention and care to keep the chances of a crash remote.

Thanks for the concern, I know you mean well.


gensem said:
Congrats John!
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Thanks. We gotta get you up and running.
 
John, what do you think about this motor on the back of a Ruckus clone?

Could make for one hell of a grocery grabber.
 
pretty sweet!
at 88 mph shouldn't there be a flaming tracer coming off the back wheel?
just for trivia sake what's the wh/km like at that speed? :shock: :lol:

and based on thumbnail calc there's no way deathbike can't not do over 100 that he's held in reserve.
if not luke then others are gonna start crawling out of the woodwoork to knock down the top dog.
so don't expect your record to hold up for long & get to work now on 110 :mrgreen:
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
pretty sweet!
at 88 mph shouldn't there be a flaming tracer coming off the back wheel?
just for trivia sake what's the wh/km like at that speed? :shock: :lol:

and based on thumbnail calc there's no way deathbike can't not do over 100 that he's held in reserve.
if not luke then others are gonna start crawling out of the woodwoork to knock down the top dog.
so don't expect your record to hold up for long & get to work now on 110 :mrgreen:
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Mine is the hubmotor record AFAIK. I make no claims regarding non-hubs.

I think the wh/km were 80, but that was for the ride, not peak. For peak as a best guess I'd go with peak current of 236A and minimum voltage of 101V, so 23,800W input or about 140wh/km. I can't look at the CA at speed, so I don't know if the current peaked while still accelerating and tapered off.

There's definitely unexplained stuff going on with these controllers. eg I can't go to WOT, because it falls off somewhere above 90% throttle. That doesn't occur with no load though. Also, no load speed is 194kph, but that's at 120V. At my sagged voltage of 101v that would predict 163kph, so how the hell did it go 166kph? Due to the effect of wind resistance, I was expecting only about 135kph, maybe 140, certainly not 166. It just powered through like wind resistance was linear, so the controllers are definitely doing something different at higher rpm. The speed limit settings are programmed to 100% across the board. I knew the motor was capable of that power and rpm, just not at such a low pack voltage.

Maybe the WOT issue is something separate and just due to the way the throttle is connected in parallel to both. This is the first time I've run XieChang controllers with it. I ran only Wuxi's before that.

At least the unexplained things are about issues with positive results. 8)

John
 
John in CR said:
Trackman417 said:
Now that I think of it, who else broke 100mph? Nobody that I know of!
CONGRATS JOHN!
Send DoctorBass a PM and see what he has in store, lol he's probably buying nanotechs right now :wink: 8)
Click to expand...

Thanks, if the good Doctor wants to catch me using a hubmotor he needs to take a step up in quality and buy a HubMonster from me.

I think we have some friends in Europe who did some builds with the biggest scooter hubbies from Kelly and danced with 100mph/160kph, but the high pole count motors can't handle the high operating frequency well due to the cheap stator steel, and the speed wind versions of those motors are crazy hard on controllers. They had a lot of headaches with overheating motors and blown controllers.

John
Click to expand...

Congrat John,

This is a great achievment :wink:

100mph on a NO FAIRING ebike is absolutely hard to accomplish and you did it. ( well... i guess it has no fairing because i sont see any right?)

Was it really on true flat NO DOWN HILL?

it was with the 36 fets 150V infineon controller or green time...?

I thought that 166km/h would require alot more power than 230A and 30s... as well as without fairing too...

i know your motor is supposed to have great efficiency.. but... i mean that for 166kmh i would have toughht that it would require about 30 to 40kW battery power and probably 25-30kW at the wheel minimum..

No worrie i will probably not beat your 103mph. i dont have time for one more project this summer, i have too many people to help for their request about ebike and e motorcycle projects... and time for the familly and enjoy the great Zero too. I am still proud to have been a great inspiration with the accomplishment i did for some peolle and that it contribeted to make that community to grow 8)

Happy 5 years from mee too John

Doc
 
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