I got a Corbin Sparrow! A very modded Corbin Sparrow

[MitchJi]

Hi Luke,

2001 Rav4 EV that I upgraded the battery to have 30kWh of additional pack.

Palatov DP1e with 30kWh of battery...

And the reason for updating this thread! The Sparrow is now DeathSparrow. I replaced it's yellow bricks of sadness with 15kWh of Lithium with punch.

What kind of batteries did you use? All the same kind?

Rav4 EV: I want to Lebowski controller swap this vehicle to get big power as well.

Palatov DP1e: Hopefully soon to get a motor controller from Arlo to get it's power up from ~100hp to 400hp.

Corbin Sparrow: She needs a motor that plays well with all the power the Zilla 1kA can deliver. Motor fitment now is extremely tight, almost touching chassis and swingarm both already with the ADC 8" it has now.

Suggestions? I've got zero experience playing the large brushed motor game.

Modify the chassis and/or swingarm?

Get three Lebowski controllers instead of two and upgrade to PMAC (you know you want to do it )?

 

[riba2233]

Check out this guys.. You can ask them for something custom..


http://kostov-motors.com/tractionmotors/kostovevmotors%28ac-dc%29/seriesdcmotorsforelectricvehicles/

 

[liveforphysics]

I know I could go brushless. I've never done a series DC hotrod yet, and I've already got the battery (56s 75Ah of NMC pouches) and controller all mounted and installed already to do big power with DC.

I've looked at Kustov and all the off-the-shelf stuff in 8". Nothing seems more special than anything else.

I don't need high continuous power. It's just a toy for bursts of acceleration, 1/4mile of WOT at the very most. I just want something that survives taking the full 1kA the Zilla has to offer for say 10 seconds.

I remember hearing about custom trick stuff to series brushed motors to make them handle big burst power. Who is still doing these mods? Jim Husted's site seems to no longer be up, is he still doing motor mods for hire? Is there someone better now days?

 

[flathill]

The 200-mph drag bike sitting in Shawn Lawless’ shop sports an electric motor that once was rated at 29 hp. Today, the bike’s power plant, made by GE and salvaged from an old forklift, puts out somewhere north of 800 hp.


Welcome to the world of electric drag racing, where racers modify their motors in ways analogous to how traditional hot-rodders boost engine displacement and crank stroke. But don’t expect to find many tips on electric motor hot rodding in online forums or magazines. Today, many of those tricks come close to being black arts practiced by a few gurus.

One of the most accomplished of these practitioners, at least in the eyes of drag-biker Lawless, is Dennis Berube. Berube souped-up the electric motor that sits in Lawless’ 200-mph drag bike. Berube also claims to be the fastest electric drag racer on four wheels, having piloted an electric dragster he built to 159.85 mph in a 7.956-sec run down the quarter mile.

Berube had his first inklings of how electric motors could be modified two decades ago when he got a job repairing and rewinding armatures. While learning his craft, he worked with a German engineer “who gave me a lot of good tips about dc motors,” he says. But most of his knowledge comes from 23 years of experimenting with his own race cars. “In evaluating an idea, you have to be diligent about documenting your setups. And you have to try the idea for one or two months, not change something after every run,” he says.” “That’s why I have over 4,000 time slips from quarter-mile runs with my electric dragsters.”


As you might expect, both Berube and Lawless are a bit cagey about discussing the details of their motor modifications. But they are willing to broadly outline how to turn an old motor from the scrap yard into something ready to challenge quarter-mile records.

All electric motors for drag racing are dc series-wound motors, rather than induction motors or something else more exotic, because “dc motors are torque monsters. They have extremely high-starting torques from 0 rpm,” notes Lawless.

Modification typically starts with installing low-friction, lowdrag bearings on the motor shaft. Next, parts within the motor that are nonconductive get extra insulation, such as a layer of powder coating, to minimize the potential for arcing. This step is not taken lightly. “After all, we are taking a motor designed for 200 A and putting 2,000 A through it,” says Lawless.


Meanwhile, all the motor’s conductive parts are typically replaced with beefed-up versions. The commutator gets special attention. “You can run direct leads into each commutator mounting point — in other words, get rid of parallel links within the commutator itself — or just make them a lot bigger,” explains Lawless.

Racers sometimes modify the motor windings as well. “Some people change the field windings depending on the specific rpm and torque levels they are trying to get. They may also shim the field windings to put them closer to the armature, but that depends on whether you are optimizing for torque or rpm. You are effectively altering the motor gearing when you tweak design parameters like that,” explains Lawless.

Finally, drag racers know when to shut things down. “You can’t run the motor long because it only has so many windings,” says Berube. “You are eventually going to overheat.”

 

[flathill]

you could also try the guys who used to race up in sactown in the early 2000s

Remember this guy?

JB Straubel - Porsche 944 240 SC/B 17.278 79.14

http://www.nedra.com/reports/nocal00.html

 

[Harold in CR]

Try John Metric, Pres of NEDRA. Forget about Husted. He screwed several guys over motor mods. One of those was Rimac E car from Croatia.

Check out diyelectriccar.com. Major, Metric and a couple others over there are big into racing. Major is/was motor tuner/head wrench, I believe, on Lightning Motorcycles world speed record a year or so back.

 

[liveforphysics]

Major has been kindly helping advise me now. Major is an awesome guy.

I turned up the Zilla to the full 1kA today. The car feels quite a bit faster now, and if you roll-on throttle with a little finesse, it transfer weight to the rear and helps it to go rather than just smoke the tires. That said, it still smokes the tire even from a 50mph roll on if you just stomp the pedal.

It seems the blasting sparks issue was largely caused from events when wheel spin would let the motor spin up and touch the Zilla's rev limiter. For whatever reason, when it touches the rev limiter, it explodes molten materials. Major advised I keep those occurrences minimized.

At 232VDC and 1,000A it certainly feels better to drive, and it was no slouch before.

 

[Hyena]

it still smokes the tire even from a 50mph roll on if you just stomp the pedal

Sounds like you have it dialed in with *just* the right amount of power

when it touches the rev limiter, it explodes molten materials. Major advised I keep those occurrences minimized.

Wise advice! EVs are all about reducing emissions and consumables, you don't want to be trading carbon for ionic copper emissions :lol:

 

[Drunkskunk]

Dude! That thing is freaking awesome!

So if you're dumping molten parts, but the motor continues to run without issue, wouldn't that mean something sacrificial was being melted? Like the brushes? Could you maybe add larger brushes that would take the heat better?

Or possibly enlarge the commuter from a narrow ring to something larger diameter, so it has more surface area to contact more brush with less resistance and localized heating?

 

[Arlo1]

Major has been kindly helping advise me now. Major is an awesome guy.

I turned up the Zilla to the full 1kA today. The car feels quite a bit faster now, and if you roll-on throttle with a little finesse, it transfer weight to the rear and helps it to go rather than just smoke the tires. That said, it still smokes the tire even from a 50mph roll on if you just stomp the pedal.

It seems the blasting sparks issue was largely caused from events when wheel spin would let the motor spin up and touch the Zilla's rev limiter. For whatever reason, when it touches the rev limiter, it explodes molten materials. Major advised I keep those occurrences minimized.

At 232VDC and 1,000A it certainly feels better to drive, and it was no slouch before.

 

[johnrobholmes]

The RPM limit is likely bouncing the gates between regen and torque currents, which would have a mean effect on brushes. If you want to tinker, reducing the brush width from the leading edge could help although I hate the suggestion of reducing brush area. You could also serrate the brush face to reduce contact area. In the goldilocks zone of serration pitch it will reduce comm wear and increase motor power since current seems to travel along edges at the interface and there is less drag. There has also been research showing that the comm can be textured for better power transmission, so that there are small dips and peaks that act like dimples on a golf ball with the copper and graphite piling into them as lubricant. Trying to locate that article, it was a good one that basically stated that smooth surfaces perform poorer than irregular ones for commutating.


Interesting stuff, those commutators and brushes.

 

[major]

He has a series wound motor and Zilla controller. The system does not support regeneration. I believe the motor has a brush advance so reducing the brush contact area is counterproductive.

 

[VeloV]

Is your Sparrow the one from that, um, Z place in Santa Rosa?
They had a burgundy jellybean there but I didn't look under the covers when I was in their warehouse.

 

[liveforphysics]

Nope. My sparrow came from the legend EV builder Bob Schnivis.

A good friend sent me a Zilla 2,000A HV controller to replace my 1,000A HV controller! WOOT!! I also upgraded the pack to 25kWh. Now it's got some pretty crazy range as well as burst power potential.

I'm thinking 11"-13" motor externally mounted on the swingarm with a belt drive and a single very large dragster DOT cheater slick.

 

[riba2233]

Why not hub motor?

 

[liveforphysics]

Why not hub motor?

Find me the right hub and controller and it would be my first choice.

 

[riba2233]

I'm sure that someone like you could do some custom work :wink:

Idea - find a largest chinese hub motor, three of them, unwind them, stack three stators side by side, wind it, make custom rotor shell and covers. Also custom axle. That would be a beast Triple sevcon size 6 controllers :lol:

 

[The fingers]

Witness the major historical event: the birth of the axle motor design! Spool for drag strip, computerized split axle for street use. 8)

 

[Evoforce]

That looks like a lot of fun! I want one... but I would have to build a rumble seat for two on it. I had been eyeing those for awhile. Looks like you are enjoying it.

 

[Hillhater]

I wish Myers would get on and build that 4 wheel EV they have been pushing for some time.
It looks real like it could be a lot of fun....with the right drive and battery package :wink:
..."but why is it only a single seater ?

 

[electron bom]

A good friend sent me a Zilla 2,000A HV controller

I'd say 'good' is an understatement...

I also upgraded the pack to 25kWh..

I'm thinking 11"-13" motor externally mounted on the swingarm with a belt drive and a single very large dragster DOT cheater slick.

This is a ~1400lb vehicle right? Most excellent decision!!!

Please please please post more vids!

 

[SHiFT]

Great vid. I can only imagine how strange it must've been for the drivers on that highway. The statements to police, and news reporters probably went something like: "I don't know, it went by so fast... It looked like, well, like a very large boot."

 

[liveforphysics]

Great vid. I can only imagine how strange it must've been for the drivers on that highway. The statements to police, and news reporters probably went something like: "I don't know, it went by so fast... It looked like, well, like a very large boot."

A large red boot streaming smoke from the rear of it going sideways.

I'm looking forward to getting the more reasonable 2,000A controller setup on her.

 

[grindz145]

A 'reasonable man's" car.... where have I heard that before....

 

[arkmundi]

I remember reading about the Sparrow when it first came out and thought "kinda cute." Now, understanding LEV's and battery, its more like "why go bankrupt - this should be what everyone drives if you want to be under wraps rather open on an eBike. So looking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers_Motors .... http://www.myersmotors.com/ ... he's at it again, raising capital to launch the new & improved version...

What are the chances this car will be real?

Many people failed to climb Mt. Everest – then came Sir Edmund Hilary and Tenzing – and now many people have climbed to the top of the world. Many people failed to run a four-minute mile – then came Roger Bannister – and now many people have broken through this time/speed barrier. Many people failed to build sustainable (electric) car companies – then came Elon Musk. This trail has already been blazed– Myers Motors believes it can walk this trail.

In the whole scheme of things, the amount of money needed to bring this car to market is pocket change to many people and corporations that want to see a better world. The small amount of money needed, the hundreds of well-paying manufacturing jobs that can be created, and promotional value of an electric car plant near a large city makes this very attractive to a large metropolitan area. And, the amount of money needed to bring this car to life is even within the realm of possibility to crowd fund. Because the amount of money needed to bring this vehicle to life is so small (relatively speaking) and because the vehicle is practical, fun to drive, and makes more financial sense than any other car on the road, we believe this vehicle has a very high probability of making it to market. And your “vote” makes it that much more of a likely reality. If you want to be part of creating an electric future, sign up to be part of this historic opportunity.