Introduction

[Reese]

Hey all,

I have an xtracycle on a cannondale right now and am looking at an e-mundo. I live on a steep hill and in a part of the city thats comparable to the hills of the east bay, maybe a 30% grade and my average load includes my growing 50lb child and about a dozen library books - the xtra isnt cutting it in terms of pulling a load and keeping its own balance, and I have a dream that one day I will stop having to call friends to pick up drywall and building materials for me...I am a complete novice - not mechanically inclined aside from some bike maintenance - but I would like some advice on buying/building something that would work better for me. I looked at the E-mundo, and it was the closest thing I could find to what I am looking for. I haven't had a chance to really look over all the posts, they are a bit overwhelming - so if theres some posts that might be of help me me let me know. Look forward to "hearing" from yinz!

 

[mrgarci1]

Hi Reese, welcome!

You could certainly go with the e-mundo, but if you already have the xtracycle you could retrofit the bike by yourself pretty easily in a variety of ways. First you have to decide what your needs are, and what your budget is.

A front hub motor (probably a geared motor would work best for hills and cargo) would give you something very similar to the e-mundo, for a LOT less money. These kits are fairly simple to install and you can find all the info you'd need on this forum either in the archives or in the brains of the members. This could run you from maybe $500, with the upper limit being determined by your imagination and your credit score

An alternative that is designed for the xtracycle is the StokeMonkey: http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/ but at $1300 before batteries, that's still a very expensive proposition.

 

[morph999]

Yeah...it's $2000, though. Right? I don't know how much those kind of bikes are but you might be able to do it for cheaper if you build it yourself.

You want to buy a 2nd bike or you want to convert your xtra-cycle into an e-bike? It'd be so much cheaper building the e-bike yourself and probably more powerful than a ready-made one. If you want to haul loads or your 50 lb child, you might look into the crystalyte X5's.....5303, 5304, and 5305 versions. They are super powerful.

If you wanted to go with an X5...you are probably looking at $750 for the motor and controller if you buy at ebikes.ca. That's where I bought mine.

Then either SLA's or lithium.

SLA's at 48v -- add about $160 ...so $750 + $160 = $910 total
Lifepo4 at 48v -- add about $600 - $1000 so $750 + $800 = $1500 or more


or maybe you could go with a nine continent motor. Motor and controller would be about $475 so it'd be about $300 cheaper than the crystalyte X5.

 

[hillbilly]

Reese... welcome to the "club" so-to-speak and the inner circle of those of us looking for an ebike capable of beating serious hills. I've been looking into the question of which bike/motor/battery combination for hills for a few months now and have read extensively here on ES and other sites. After much thought and some good personal message exchanges with experienced members here I've decided on a Yuba Mundo bike for its rigid steel frame rather than an Xtracycle.

The big question remains unresolved, however, and that is -- how do I power it?

"Morph" suggested the X5 series motors and that motor is high on my list, along with Cyclone and eLation (both non-hub drives). In a recent thread "Dogman" said this, which leaves me still "up in the air" but I find it quite thought-provoking:

" “The bmc will climb better, the clyte will climb longer without overheating. You'd only pay that weight penalty if you need to, as I do living in the desert. Otherwise, unless you will be going up hill for many miles continuiously, the lighter weight and smaller battery weight and cost would make the bmc a great choice.

There is no "best setup" one shines for one type of riding, the other shines for the other. But the one that has the widest range of use is the clyte x5. The one that can cost the most is also the x5.”

The hills I want to climb are quite long -- logging roads that ascend 1-4,000' over several miles. I want to carry about 50 pounds of camping gear and I definitely do not want to get stuck out there, so reliability is a very important factor. I keep hearing positive things about every motor but as yet I've not heard a real-life report from someone who has ridden an ebike in the kind of conditions I describe.

By the way, the first question I posted here about "An ebike for the hills" brought a large number of very good responses. Here's the thread, which I continue to study myself as I continue to climb the 30% ebike learning curve

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11827

Carl

 

[deardancer3]

Welcome Reese!

Here is the link to our "Newbie guide", under cosntruction. It is

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1188

The major topics one needs to concentrate on at first are:

*Understanding the terminology-- what all the acronyms and buzz words mean- you might already have done this.

*How to easily use Endless Sphere forum- using searches, asking questions, where your priority items are located in the forum.

*Knowing your needs, limitations and non-negotiable items- looks like you are in need of a heavy load hill climber, and a car replacement category. sounds like your are a fairly skilled cyclist-- that is good, and you can do basic bike services.

*What it takes to meet your needs-- ie how much system power for maximum load needs, how much energy for maximum range, etc.

--
For what your needs are, I dont think there is any pre-built to do what you want, so you can just skip stuff about prebuilts.

Your needs may be fairly demanding financially, so be sure they are true needs; ie, it takes a lot to climb long steep hills with big loads at fairly good speed--- a high power motor and lots of battery, a solid controller. Might be good to talk about budget at this point, the ability to put out the full 750 watts for 60 minutes can be quite surprising for a Lith Ion pack.

Jumping to the solution statements, if you are considering a long wheel base bike, you could go with a chain drive which increases efficiency and is easier on battery requirements. since you said you were not real adept mechanically, you might want as close to a turnkey chain drive kit as possible. So I would say to consider the 36v Cyclone kits just as a point of comparison. They can be geared down to supply some real tractor like hill climbing at fairly good efficiency, making battery
selection easier.

It sounds like you are in a major metro area, so taking a peak at some good ebikes might be easier than if you were in some rural area.

Anyway welcome, and good luck with your research.

any

 

[torker]

Hillbilly, Did you get going with the Puma?

 

[hillbilly]

Dave,

Yes, thanks to "fishmasterdan" my Trek is converted (and I love it), though it turns out that the motor is actually a BMC v1. I guess there are differences, perhaps subtle, between a "real" Puma and this particular BMC.

I posted a review of my bike in the Reviews section of ES but there is late-breaking-news: the controller we installed turns out to be 20 amp, not 30. Dan reviewed my V-3 data logger info and noted that I was maxing out at just under 600 watts. Being a noobie I hadn't noticed any lack of power, mainly because I had nothing to compare it to. John Holmes was able to confirm that the controller was not what all of us had thought -- I'm waiting now for a 35 amp replacement from Holmes. When it is installed I'm expecting a significant boost in power -- and as soon as that happens I'll update my review.

Carl

 

[Drunkskunk]

Reese, welcome to the forum!

The e-mundo is a nice bike, but I don't think it will suit your needs for a couple reasons.

• Its a BMC V1, 400 watt motor.
  Its front wheel drive.

A 30% grade hill is pretty extream. I've owned cars that couldn't go up a 30% grade in anything but 1st gear, and atleast 1 that could have never made it up at all (Geo Metro, had to go in reverse up a 15% grade at a state park)

to pull up that kind of hill at even low speeds (5-8mph) is going to take some serious power. a 400 watt motor just won't do. BMC does make a 1000 watt motor, but I don't think that will sustain the heat, as your weight + 50 pounds of kid and another 75 pounds of bike is going to take sustained pulls of over 1500 watts or more.

Really, there are only 2 options in anything bicycle sized. a 5305 in a small diameter wheel running high voltage and loads of amps. (its an "advertised" 750 watt motor, but known to handle 3000 watts well) But thats still not going to have much pull and it will get hot.
The other option will be to fit a chain drive motor like a 1000 watt cyclone. it won't be as elegant a solution, but it may be the best option for climbing hills in the extream.

The other thing to note here is the placement of the motor. Front wheel drive is fine low powered bikes, as there isn't much danger of the wheel slipping under normal riding conditions, but on something like you will need, having the power from the rear is the only thing that makes sense.

 

[Ole]

Hi Reese. I'm new to this forum too. This is my firs post.

I see you live in a very hilly area and are considering buying a Yuba Mundo with an electric motor. I live in a very hilly area (Bergen, Norway) too and I use a Mundo 18speed with a Stoke Monkey kit. Just wanted to say you can't go wrong with this combination. You will probably never find a hill to steep for this setup and the gears make it possible to go fast too. If you want to be on the dark side of the law the 20mph speed limiter is easily disabled and you will go as fast as the motor can push you depending on terrain and wind. Gears also make it possible to go really slow when riding in steep technical terrain and when walking next to the bike up stairs etc. With a Ping 48v 20ah battery I get 80-100km range depending on my effort and load on bike. It is an expensive setup but what you get is a bike that can be used for everything.

Regards
Ole