Joby Motors Santa Cruz, CA

i like it and the price is not so off ...its okay , But shouldn't we get continuous rating before buying it . We are in a process of doing this for colossus and one more test is on....so peak tells you nothing...Our idea is not to state peak...but to state continuous shaft power , not current from battery..(alllways bigger than real mechanic power ) Those are things i think every motor should declare even if its for plane ....and also the environment in witch the continuous test is performed .. Sky or road etc...
 
Agreed. The more real world testing results, the better, and I truly respect all the parameterizing that you and Hal are doing for the Colossus project. Unfortunately even some big companies have a habit of only providing limited product data that shows the product in the most favourable light. These motors really need ES guinea pigs to find their thermal equilibrium limits in traction applications....(transverse mounted and without prop wash)
 
boostjuice said:
Yes, but those figures are likely for flight/wind power generation where airflow is significantly higher.
Click to expand...

why would you not consider the option of using a small cooling fan (ducted ?) on one end of the motor shaft ?...if you believe forced cooling is critical ? After all, that is common practice on most industrial motors.
 
Hillhater said:
boostjuice said:
Yes, but those figures are likely for flight/wind power generation where airflow is significantly higher.
Click to expand...

why would you not consider the option of using a small cooling fan (ducted ?) on one end of the motor shaft ?...if you believe forced cooling is critical ? After all, that is common practice on most industrial motors.
Click to expand...

Of course forced cooling would help, but if continuous power handling in low>moderate airspeed traction applications approaches close to the published specs for high airspeed applications, then many would be satisfied with the performance straight-up without cooling mods. That would simplify setup, and keep the whole setup narrower for transverse mounting into a bicycle/small motorcycle frame. To force air evenly though the coils in such a large diameter motor when using a small high-rpm fan and ducting, it would necessitate a large funnel shaped cover, with a 90degree bend leading into the center of the protruding cone. I can envisage this doubling or tripling the width of the overall package, which creates clearance issues with pedals (at least for my potential application). An ~200mm prop mounted on the end of the shaft would need a beastly cage. Not something i'm personally keen on.

All I'm saying is that IMHO only testing by purchasers for EV applications will truly tell us how these compare with other such big hitters (Astro's, Colossus, CA-120 etc.) for continuous/high duty cycle power output. There is a fair bit of temp/power info on Astro's floating about. The Colossus looks like it's going to be well parametrized for traction apps before they're even sold to customers....It would be nice to be able to better compare apples with apples.
 
boostjuice and i are basically saying that ; ratings should be made in real time performance that can later be used to compare two motors when buying them ; without having to think ( ah, if i put this than it will maybe.... be able to push amps more ...and if i do this....then bla bla ) Normally you know the performance of Agni motor , llynch motor and so on.... You dont go thinking about it since they have everything stated as it is and Cedrick Lynch is also there to give you complete details . . But when we get to out runners and some other bldc motors ....buah ...things get complicated(lack of details)....without any particular reason... Good
example, Plettenberg is used on that carbon bike from Germany.... But i still dont know what is exact continuous power of Plettenberg .... and they know that their motor is used in bikes etc...
So ,where is the continuous rating for that ? And when u find it ; than try to find out if it that is performance with air venting through or not ..... Thats like 1300 euros question :)
 
markobetti said:
i like it and the price is not so off ...its okay , But shouldn't we get continuous rating before buying it . We are in a process of doing this for colossus and one more test is on....so peak tells you nothing...Our idea is not to state peak...but to state continuous shaft power , not current from battery..(alllways bigger than real mechanic power ) Those are things i think every motor should declare even if its for plane ....and also the environment in witch the continuous test is performed .. Sky or road etc...
Click to expand...

I like what you are trying to do. Spesificing the conditions in which the peak / continuous power was achieved is admirable. It is always good to show peak powers since it seems that is what the RC motor companies do, and people think that peak power is the best way to compare motors. Since everyones application is different it makes it hard to spesify a continuous power without also sepsifying the cooling conditions. Most large motors with liquid cooling spesify a continuous power, provided a given coolant flow rate and inlet temperature, it is up to the customer to get that coolant flow rate and temperature into the motor to get the advertised performance. With air cooling it is slightly harder to do since measuring air-flow is more difficult, and ensuring you have that airflow once the motor is installed is also difficult. One thing that I like to do when simulating a motor, is to estimate the total loss of the motor at the continuous rating, so for example: Continuous rating, 10kW, 5000RPM, 19Nm with 900W of heat dissapation. An efficiency rating at continous power gets you the same information. This heat produced indicator and allows the potential customer to estimate if they think their application will be able to remove that heat to get the advertized output power.

-ryan
 
Seems we are on the same track . One more thing to add : controller + motor efficiency . For example ; 36 fet 4110 fet cntrl + colossus 12 motor = 85 efficiency (lab info ) . We also have on the way a controller that is supposed to be 100 pure sinewave and i hope we will be able to test sinewave motor + sinewave cntrl get bigger efficiency and better performance curve
 
they seem to be some of the finest motors around,
just looking at the specs here http://www.jobymotors.com/public/views/pages/jm1s.php

the graph of idle power is interesting, (and shows very similar numbers to the ca120-70 also) but it doesnt quite add up to the over 95% efficiency shown in the other graphs, more like 90% ? -if you are losing 380w to idle (shown at 5500rpm), then peak efficiency would be found when the ir losses are the same -ie 760w total lost, if you then make 7.6kw then its 90% efficient? am i missing anything here?

sounds fair to use 380w to eddy losses etc at 5500rpm for a motor of this diameter, it may even have some real good magnetic materials too,
i read somewhere that so far they claim upward of 90% and are working on 95%.
 
Electrical gurus what is the crux with high current sensorless controller ? Can we just beef up a Castle 160 with larger fets, shunts and caps ? I have a JM1 with a 130KV and smooth can for a water jacket in the works. It will be used for a surfboard/jetski project with a 122mm pump . Is there a sensorless 350amp 16s Lipo ESC out there ? I'm looking at the Jeti spin 300 14s( 220a continuous 59v max) and the swordfish 240 12s (240a continuous 50v max) I'm looking for 6000rpm max and would get it wound for a lower KV if I can find a higher volt sensorless controller . Thanks
 
Berky said:
Electrical gurus what is the crux with high current sensorless controller ? Can we just beef up a Castle 160 with larger fets, shunts and caps ? I have a JM1 with a 130KV and smooth can for a water jacket in the works. It will be used for a surfboard/jetski project with a 122mm pump . Is there a sensorless 350amp 16s Lipo ESC out there ? I'm looking at the Jeti spin 300 14s( 220a continuous 59v max) and the swordfish 240 12s (240a continuous 50v max) I'm looking for 6000rpm max and would get it wound for a lower KV if I can find a higher volt sensorless controller . Thanks
Click to expand...


You have a JM1??? When I visited the factory, I never saw any with a smooth can and they never mentioned water cooling. That's awesome if they have that. Are you sure you're not thinking of the Astro 3220?

Sadly, there aren't any decent RC esc's. The castle creations HV160 is the best out there. The Jeti-Spin series had a track history of exploding rapidly in every EV it's been tried in (at least that I'm aware of).

You application of driving a surfboard impeller may actually work out though with a good Castle creations controller, as the starting torque would be very low, and more importantly, the time spent at low RPMs would be very low.
 
Hey Luke,
Diederik at Joby is super cool to deal with he is doing the smooth can and 130KV wind (I think standard is 30 to 80 KV) Yes I'm hoping the low and progressive start up load along with water cooling controller and motor will make it survive . What do you think the Castle controller can handle if it's watercooled ? Is the 160 there largest one they make ? Thanks
 
if you are going to watercool a motor and controller why not buy this controller from castlecreations http://www.castlecreations.com/products/hydra_hv_line.html
 
Thanks for the link. Is the Hydra 240 a Ice 160 with water cooling ?
 
Thanks John ! The Castle Hydra HV240 sold out plus it's $450 to $550. I think someone could sell a truck load of bomber 360amp 80v sensorless controllers.
 
I ordered one of these about a month ago from their website and am still waiting for it to ship, it looks good on paper at least and worth trialing for ebike application.

Has anybody tried mating a motor like this to a pancake shaped planetary gear or a series of them to get the RPMs down to crank cadence? It might be possible to keep the entire unit down to 4" wide so it can fit between the cranks?
 
Hi,

i have a gernal question about Joby Motors. What's there communication strategie? I'm realy interested in one of the motors. I tried to get some detailed information like a parameter matrix. I contact them with my official company adress (which should normaly get attention) and later on with my private adress, giving no interference about my origin, getting no answer either...so what's there problem? On the sheets finest motor on market, but the company ... which is the complete opposide than in the thread?!?

Does anyone own one of these motors?

thanks so far

Flo
 
Joby energy is sadly dead.


Ben quietly pulled the plug on the operation a couple months ago. Sad deal.
 
liveforphysics said:
Joby energy is sadly dead.


Ben quietly pulled the plug on the operation a couple months ago. Sad deal.
Click to expand...
frock!
 
Bugger! They quietly slipped out of buissness taking nearly $900 of my hard earned with them. I guess I am not likely to see a motor in the post any time soon. It looked too good to be true. Thank God I still have the Astro!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
Controller options for dual Joby JM1S-2TY
Replies
2
Views
915
pna
P
Lock
TM4 develops new high-performance electric drive system
Replies
2
Views
1,775
Lock
Lock
fechter
Glossary of EV terminology
Replies
0
Views
9,912
fechter
fechter
Reid Welch
"Extreme MY1018" archival, closed out
Replies
11
Views
15,908
GIGATT
G
Back
Top