RageNR
100 W
- Joined
- May 23, 2016
- Messages
- 216
Ello there fellow ES-ers (is that allowed?)
This will be my build thread for my newly acquired Klein bike.
Just picked her up a few hours back for $400.
It is a 2000 Mantra Comp, in duo-tone blues. I will be repainting her later.
Was so excited when I got home, I just had to take it out for a ride. That was @ 1am. Thankfully, TacoBell was still open. LoL
My original build thread was for a 1996 ProFlex Beast. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80665
Many members advised against my plan for using that frame at high speeds. I agreed with their point, but that was the bike I had. It really was not suited for anything past 35mph.
The advice was to find and purchase an older DH bike, like a Giant. Unfortunately, in my area these are hard to come by. Price-to-value is completely out of whack in the resale market here. Have to work with the best I can get.
Yes, I could have bought one on Ebay. Not something I wanted to gamble with.
I posted the other build in the Technical section. Had some details I wanted to hash out before starting the build.
And I had a lot of questions when I initially made that thread. Here, I will try to clean up my ideas/direction.
Was trying to keep this build under $1000. With the cost of the Klein, and all the parts, I am expecting to avg $1250
Platform
2000 Klein Mantra Comp
>Dual Suspension
>Frame Size - Large
>Frame Material - Aluminum
>Weight - 26lbs
>Swimgarm - the newest design by Klein before Trek stopped production. It is much stronger and beefier than the previous designs.
>Front fork - Answer Manitou MARS w/3.15in travel
>Rear Shock - Fox Float R w/7in travel
>Wheels - Bontrager Race
>Drive Components - Shimano LX/XTR 9 speed (11-32t)
>Shifters - Shimano Deore LX Rapid-Fire
>Brakes - Avid 1D-20 squeeze brakes (aka "Rim Crushers")
[the 2000 version of the Mantra has mounting points on the swingarm and front fork for disc calipers. Will be upgrading to these later on]
UPDATE: The stock front fork has mounting holes for a standard disc caliper. That one will be bolt on and go. The rear will require an adapter to fit current caliper mounts.
Kit Options
>Motor - Cyclone 1800-3000w 24-72v
>Freewheel - 5hole Brown $15
>Chainwheel - 3 Chain 48t-48t-24t (48 for speed, 24 for low end grunt)
>Mounting - The Cyclone is going to be mounted above the crank, against the front face of the swingarm. See pictures below for reference
Electronics
>Controller - stock one for now
>Display - Cycle Analyst v3 (CA3-DPS) $145 shipped from Grin
>Power - 3x Muiltistar 20,000mAh paks in 18s1p configuration (total of 75.6v, 20AH, 200A, 1330Wh) $130ish from HobbyKing
>Charger - still figuring this one out. Please comment if you have recommendations (want something that charges fairly fast {less than 3hrs}, but also want something portable to take with me {can charge slower})
>Battery Connection - Break away setup mounted under the seat. Batteries will be carried in a backpack.
Output Goals
Speed - 50+ mph
Output - 3000w, ..duh
Voltage - 75.6v (66.6 Nominal)
Range - 35-50 miles
Stealthy as possible
Fairly smooth ride. Reason for choosing a dual suspension MTB
Realistic Goals
44-48mph
3000w
75v
35 miles
Rockford Fosgate 1000w, 2 JBL 6x9s, and a 12in Kicker ported SUB-sqube Was going to use a home theater bluetooth soundbar, but I like the handlebars my Klein came with.
Think that pretty much sums up the direction of the build. Let me know if I missed anything.
Now I would like to talk about a few other things on my mind.
First, I really like the Klein Mantra frame. It is a straight body tube, with no downtube. A completely open design. It just screams to be made into a mid-drive.
Not my bike. LOOK AT ALL THAT SPACE!!! I just love the design.
It also opens the door for upgrade later down the line. Might decide to put a bigger motor on it eventually. 8000W anyone? heheheee
Another look:
And another:
^^^ This one has a Girvin carbon front fork, like the ProFlex.
Something else I had not considered before...
You know how a lot of MTB-ers will complain that dual suspension bikes rob pedaling power? I wonder how much of this will affect the dynamics of a mid-drive? Of course, it will depend on how it is set up, and the bike design as well.
The Klein Mantra is a dual suspension bike. BUT, with a huge key difference.
The entire rear of the bike is the swingarm, suspended by the 2 mounting points on the frame and the rear shock. The pedals and crank are part of the rear assembly.
This makes the bike ride like a hard tail when you are standing on the pedals. Only when you sit on the seat does the rear susp become active. Very interesting...
Ok, so what does it matter? Well, these mid-drives produce a lot of torque. If a bike is designed in such a manner that the rear suspended portion is separate from the crank, then the torque from the motor could move the rear. Maybe not much, but remember MTB riders complaining about loss of power by way of dampening from the rear susp. This could potentially rob power from the motor. Especially under hard acceleration.
Thinking on this made me realize something. The issue with the Bafang BBSxx motors is they are geared too low, and cause stress on the driveline parts.
Would that make a dual susp bike a better fit for these systems? One where the separation of rear susp and crank allow some relief from the high torque?
The Klein Mantra's design seems to be much better suited to a mid-drive. Everything that spins is suspended or all part of the same rigid structure.
Maybe I am way off the mark here. Still, it was an interesting thought.
Anyways, I am super stoked to get this project going. After I get the fund$ dilemma, choice of charger, and parts order locations figured out.. I will be ready to get started.
Please, comment away. I like to hear everyone's opinions and experiences.
And thank you to all that have provided feedback thus far. Much appreciated!
This will be my build thread for my newly acquired Klein bike.
Just picked her up a few hours back for $400.
It is a 2000 Mantra Comp, in duo-tone blues. I will be repainting her later.
Was so excited when I got home, I just had to take it out for a ride. That was @ 1am. Thankfully, TacoBell was still open. LoL
My original build thread was for a 1996 ProFlex Beast. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80665
Many members advised against my plan for using that frame at high speeds. I agreed with their point, but that was the bike I had. It really was not suited for anything past 35mph.
The advice was to find and purchase an older DH bike, like a Giant. Unfortunately, in my area these are hard to come by. Price-to-value is completely out of whack in the resale market here. Have to work with the best I can get.
Yes, I could have bought one on Ebay. Not something I wanted to gamble with.
I posted the other build in the Technical section. Had some details I wanted to hash out before starting the build.
And I had a lot of questions when I initially made that thread. Here, I will try to clean up my ideas/direction.
Was trying to keep this build under $1000. With the cost of the Klein, and all the parts, I am expecting to avg $1250
Platform
2000 Klein Mantra Comp
>Dual Suspension
>Frame Size - Large
>Frame Material - Aluminum
>Weight - 26lbs
>Swimgarm - the newest design by Klein before Trek stopped production. It is much stronger and beefier than the previous designs.
>Front fork - Answer Manitou MARS w/3.15in travel
>Rear Shock - Fox Float R w/7in travel
>Wheels - Bontrager Race
>Drive Components - Shimano LX/XTR 9 speed (11-32t)
>Shifters - Shimano Deore LX Rapid-Fire
>Brakes - Avid 1D-20 squeeze brakes (aka "Rim Crushers")
[the 2000 version of the Mantra has mounting points on the swingarm and front fork for disc calipers. Will be upgrading to these later on]
UPDATE: The stock front fork has mounting holes for a standard disc caliper. That one will be bolt on and go. The rear will require an adapter to fit current caliper mounts.
Kit Options
>Motor - Cyclone 1800-3000w 24-72v
>Freewheel - 5hole Brown $15
>Chainwheel - 3 Chain 48t-48t-24t (48 for speed, 24 for low end grunt)
>Mounting - The Cyclone is going to be mounted above the crank, against the front face of the swingarm. See pictures below for reference
Electronics
>Controller - stock one for now
>Display - Cycle Analyst v3 (CA3-DPS) $145 shipped from Grin
>Power - 3x Muiltistar 20,000mAh paks in 18s1p configuration (total of 75.6v, 20AH, 200A, 1330Wh) $130ish from HobbyKing
>Charger - still figuring this one out. Please comment if you have recommendations (want something that charges fairly fast {less than 3hrs}, but also want something portable to take with me {can charge slower})
>Battery Connection - Break away setup mounted under the seat. Batteries will be carried in a backpack.
Output Goals
Speed - 50+ mph
Output - 3000w, ..duh
Voltage - 75.6v (66.6 Nominal)
Range - 35-50 miles
Stealthy as possible
Fairly smooth ride. Reason for choosing a dual suspension MTB
Realistic Goals
44-48mph
3000w
75v
35 miles
Rockford Fosgate 1000w, 2 JBL 6x9s, and a 12in Kicker ported SUB-sqube Was going to use a home theater bluetooth soundbar, but I like the handlebars my Klein came with.
Think that pretty much sums up the direction of the build. Let me know if I missed anything.
Now I would like to talk about a few other things on my mind.
First, I really like the Klein Mantra frame. It is a straight body tube, with no downtube. A completely open design. It just screams to be made into a mid-drive.
Not my bike. LOOK AT ALL THAT SPACE!!! I just love the design.
It also opens the door for upgrade later down the line. Might decide to put a bigger motor on it eventually. 8000W anyone? heheheee
Another look:
And another:
^^^ This one has a Girvin carbon front fork, like the ProFlex.
Something else I had not considered before...
You know how a lot of MTB-ers will complain that dual suspension bikes rob pedaling power? I wonder how much of this will affect the dynamics of a mid-drive? Of course, it will depend on how it is set up, and the bike design as well.
The Klein Mantra is a dual suspension bike. BUT, with a huge key difference.
The entire rear of the bike is the swingarm, suspended by the 2 mounting points on the frame and the rear shock. The pedals and crank are part of the rear assembly.
This makes the bike ride like a hard tail when you are standing on the pedals. Only when you sit on the seat does the rear susp become active. Very interesting...
Ok, so what does it matter? Well, these mid-drives produce a lot of torque. If a bike is designed in such a manner that the rear suspended portion is separate from the crank, then the torque from the motor could move the rear. Maybe not much, but remember MTB riders complaining about loss of power by way of dampening from the rear susp. This could potentially rob power from the motor. Especially under hard acceleration.
Thinking on this made me realize something. The issue with the Bafang BBSxx motors is they are geared too low, and cause stress on the driveline parts.
Would that make a dual susp bike a better fit for these systems? One where the separation of rear susp and crank allow some relief from the high torque?
The Klein Mantra's design seems to be much better suited to a mid-drive. Everything that spins is suspended or all part of the same rigid structure.
Maybe I am way off the mark here. Still, it was an interesting thought.
Anyways, I am super stoked to get this project going. After I get the fund$ dilemma, choice of charger, and parts order locations figured out.. I will be ready to get started.
Please, comment away. I like to hear everyone's opinions and experiences.
And thank you to all that have provided feedback thus far. Much appreciated!