Lebowski's motor controller IC, schematic & setup, new v2.A1

The 600A rated one might though - biggest problem is getting rid of 600A X 2V of heat!

I just clicked on your high power controller link - the topology was exactly what I had in mind last night (reconsidering the IPM modules due to cost) including the 'power ring' capacitor! Damn... That's crazy.
 
heathyoung said:
The outputs of the Lebowski board need to be able to sink 15mA - I would assume they can do that, and is there an error handling input (ie. when a fault happens - can the drive be interrupted?)

If you had the option of hall outputs vs. quadrature encoding - what would you be better off with?
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly the outputs can deliver enough current to drive LED's, around 25 mA if I am not mistaken.

If the choice is to divide a full e-rotation into 4 (digital quadrature encoding) or 6 (hall encoding) slices, 6 is always better...
 
My understanding of quadrature encoding is not that there 4 pulses per revolution, but 4 pulses to make up direction and position "increment" There can be hundreds of these pulses per revolution, giving very high resolution position information no idea what is standard for a motor sensor though.
 
This explains the operation of the quadrature encoder well, vastly superior to hall effect resolution.

http://www.ni.com/white-paper/4763/en/
 
kiwifiat said:
This explains the operation of the quadrature encoder well, vastly superior to hall effect resolution.

http://www.ni.com/white-paper/4763/en/
Click to expand...

I mean this looks the same as hall signals, but only 2 instead of 3 (so a full e-revolution is chopped into 4 bits instead of 6 as with halls). So less accurate than halls...
 
Got a new motor today, a lexus MGR, the rear motor out of an lexus rx350h-rx400h also used on the toyota highlander hybrid. Originally since its the Toyota synergy spec system it is designed for 600v. Right now I am testing with 110v.

Now the strange thing is, just like the brushless inrunner I tested before the IC keeps not finishing the FOC measurement (it resets itself, so next serial command takes you back to main menu), so no spin up. Mind pointing me in the direction, I remember last time it had to do with some pwm settings.

here is my setup currently

Code: 
0x7CE2	0x071B	0x019C	0x2B55	0x0443	0x00A3	0x06DC	0x0051
0x0036	0x0026	0x7FBC	0x0116	0x0000	0x0046	0x8000	0x015C
0x00AE	0x0294	0x03F7	0x03F7	0x03F6	0xAAAA	0xAAAA	0xAAAA
0x0BB7	0x0D62	0x008F	0x10BB	0x0002	0xE77E	0x06E0	0x2000
0x0000	0x0000	0xF000	0x0000	0x0000	0x00BC	0x02A4	0x0000
0x03FF	0x0570	0x0045	0x0570	0x022D	0x03E8	0x0258	0x0064
0x0890	0x0190	0x000E	0x0298	0x0000	0x999A	0x0030	0x0000
0x01E0	0xFFFF	0x6666	0xFFD0	0x0000	0xFE20	0x0000	0x07AE
0x0030	0x0000	0x01E0	0xFFFF	0xF852	0xFFD0	0x0000	0xFE20
0x0003	0x0000	0x0078	0x0000	0x0000	0xFFFD	0x0000	0xFF88
0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0003	0x0000	0x00C8	0x0000
0x0000	0xFFFD	0x0000	0xFF38	0x0000	0x0000	0x000C	0x0000
0x00F0	0x0000	0x0000	0xFFF4	0x0000	0xFF10	0x05AB	0x1DE1
0x02FF	0x028E	0x02B8	0x0138	0x053A	0x7530	0x028E	0x0010
0x03BA	0x0042	0x0010	0x038E	0x0000	0x03E8	0x00C8	0x0DAE
0x03B6	0x6000	0x0116	0x0751	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0x4000	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000
0x0032	0xFFFF	0xC519	0x764B	0x5482	0x41B3	0x35C3	0x2D7A
0x276B	0x22C9	0x1F1E	0x1C28	0x19B5	0x17A6	0x15E6	0x1463
0x1312	0x11EB	0x10E4	0x0FFB	0x0F28	0x0E6B	0x0DC0	0x0D23
0x0C94	0x0C10	0x0B97	0x0B27	0x0ABF	0x0A5F	0x0A05	0x09B1
0x0962	*

also waiting to try the new firmware when my chips arrive. :D
 

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I think when this happens it is always due to a dip in the 5V, causing the controller IC to reset.

Just finished v2.90 (update file in the correspindding thread), your 2 chips will be in the mail tomorrow morning. :D
 
There is one big issue, had my remy core from an bmw hooked up before. This worked perfectly fine, this causes me to think it is not the 5v rail since the FOC measurement for the Remy works fine.

What will cause the IC to draw more current? Any way of trying to get the same mistake with the Remy motor?
 
where does the 5V come from ? I think what typically happens is a kickback from the motor to the main battery, the 5V dcdc does not respond quick enough and the 5V drops.
i haven't looked at your setup yet, what version was it ?
 
Version, thats a good one bought december 2015 so must be what ever version was live then.

setup is two modules of 17s A123 batteries supplying the 110v (roughly), the 12 volt is a wall power supply, 3A capable.

Made my own pcb, has a tracopower 1-2450, so should supply 1A. Also attached the schematic and layout, it works fine for my other motor.
 

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Well, all I can say is that the only way for the chip to go back to the main menu straight at the end of an inductance measurement is via a reset . And if you don't reset it yourself then the reset comes from something happening on the 5V.

Different motors have different inductances and therefore different amount of energies stored in the coils. The kickback from this to the battery can affect the 5V based on how good your DCDC's are (a slow DCDC may not respond fast enough to a drop in the battery voltage and may not be able to keep a stable 5V). So, results in the past are no guarantee for results in the future...

A comment about your little PCB, you have little cap on the 5V (a few 100nFs which is good, but only 3 47uFs which it not so good). I always have around 10 47uF's spread all over the PCB. So maybe more cap on the 5V will help to reduce the voltage dip.

The version is shown in the main menu in the copyright message.
 
Noise?

Or do you have a ground plane?

Scope the 5v rail on the Brain right at the brain and see what it does during a measurement.

Is your 5v rail properly regulated?
 
Took my scope out. Measuring the 5 volt rail that I use to power the IC and the throttle pots.

Very steady however during the FOC measurements there are clear peaks down, for the remy motor its no issue. Lowest value seen on the 5v rail is around 4.5v (measuring outside the inverter housing
Reuploaded the remy hex dump and got it spinning fine, did a measurement and that worked just fine.

No will try the Lexus motor again, first try will be changing nothing and just running FOC measurement. What is the brown out voltage for the IC?

remy hex dump
Code: 
0x5ADE	0x010D	0x07EB	0xF709	0x01B4	0x00A3	0x02BE	0x0051
0x0036	0x0026	0x7FBC	0x0116	0x0000	0x0046	0x8000	0x015C
0x00AE	0x0294	0x03F7	0x03F7	0x03F6	0xAAAA	0xAAAA	0xAAAA
0x0BB7	0x04AF	0x008F	0x05DB	0x0006	0xE67E	0x06E0	0x2000
0x0000	0x0000	0xF000	0x0000	0x0000	0x00BC	0x02A4	0x0000
0x03FF	0x0570	0x0063	0x0570	0x022D	0x03E8	0x0258	0x0064
0x0890	0x0190	0x000E	0x0298	0x0000	0x999A	0x0030	0x0000
0x01E0	0xFFFF	0x6666	0xFFD0	0x0000	0xFE20	0x0000	0x07AE
0x0030	0x0000	0x01E0	0xFFFF	0xF852	0xFFD0	0x0000	0xFE20
0x0003	0x0000	0x0078	0x0000	0x0000	0xFFFD	0x0000	0xFF88
0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0003	0x0000	0x00C8	0x0000
0x0000	0xFFFD	0x0000	0xFF38	0x0000	0x0000	0x000C	0x0000
0x00F0	0x0000	0x0000	0xFFF4	0x0000	0xFF10	0x05AB	0x2704
0x0071	0x028E	0x02B8	0x006D	0x01D4	0x7530	0x028E	0x0010
0x03BA	0x0042	0x0010	0x071C	0x0000	0x03E8	0x00C8	0x2716
0x03B6	0x6000	0x018E	0x028F	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0x4000	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000
0x0032	0xFFFF	0xC519	0x764B	0x5482	0x41B3	0x35C3	0x2D7A
0x276B	0x22C9	0x1F1E	0x1C28	0x19B5	0x17A6	0x15E6	0x1463
0x1312	0x11EB	0x10E4	0x0FFB	0x0F28	0x0E6B	0x0DC0	0x0D23
0x0C94	0x0C10	0x0B97	0x0B27	0x0ABF	0x0A5F	0x0A05	0x09B1
0x0962	*
 
Version is 2.51

Okay, Got everything hooked back up and working. Got some video of the 5v rail, throttle supply, during FOC measurements.

However, now it hangs up and does not reset it self. Used my Remy motor HEX to have a base line, motor the Lexus mgr does spin now. However no matter what kind of sensor loop voltage I choose the FOC measurement keeps crashing it.

Will take the inverter apart and beef up my capacitors. Probably will stack them for the quick fix, if it is a fix at all.

Motor doing its spinny thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exbnxTDsoy8

FOC 5 volt measurement, does indeed dip below 4.7v so some caps will be added.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6I6StEjsLQ
 
dude, good timing. I had added four more 100nf and 4 more 47uf caps. However no succes.

Turns out stepping in 10 and 15 is the issues i was having with the pwm.

She does the FOC calc fine now at 14khz sample freq.

Code: 
0xFF59	0x004A	0x50EB	0xFEC4	0x01B4	0x00A3	0x02BE	0x0051
0x0036	0x0026	0x7FBC	0x0116	0x0000	0x0046	0x8000	0x015C
0x00AE	0x0294	0x03F7	0x03F7	0x03F6	0xAAAA	0xAAAA	0xAAAA
0x0BB7	0x04AF	0x008F	0x085D	0x0004	0xE67E	0x06E0	0x2000
0x0000	0x0000	0xF000	0x0000	0x0000	0x00BC	0x02A4	0x0000
0x03FF	0x0570	0x0063	0x0570	0x022D	0x03E8	0x0258	0x0064
0x0890	0x0190	0x000E	0x0298	0x0000	0x999A	0x0030	0x0000
0x01E0	0xFFFF	0x6666	0xFFD0	0x0000	0xFE20	0x0000	0x07AE
0x0030	0x0000	0x01E0	0xFFFF	0xF852	0xFFD0	0x0000	0xFE20
0x0003	0x0000	0x0078	0x0000	0x0000	0xFFFD	0x0000	0xFF88
0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0003	0x0000	0x00C8	0x0000
0x0000	0xFFFD	0x0000	0xFF38	0x0000	0x0000	0x000C	0x0000
0x00F0	0x0000	0x0000	0xFFF4	0x0000	0xFF10	0x05AB	0x2144
0x001F	0x028E	0x02B8	0x006D	0x01D4	0x7530	0x00D2	0x0005
0x05B2	0x0042	0x0010	0x071C	0x0000	0x03E8	0x00C8	0x2716
0x03B6	0x6000	0x018E	0x028F	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0x4000	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000
0x0032	0xFFFF	0xC519	0x764B	0x5482	0x41B3	0x35C3	0x2D7A
0x276B	0x22C9	0x1F1E	0x1C28	0x19B5	0x17A6	0x15E6	0x1463
0x1312	0x11EB	0x10E4	0x0FFB	0x0F28	0x0E6B	0x0DC0	0x0D23
0x0C94	0x0C10	0x0B97	0x0B27	0x0ABF	0x0A5F	0x0A05	0x09B1
0x0962	*
 
The first step will be a car with room above one of the axles. Currently look at a lotus 7 type kitcar or a mid engined car (F type MG, Toyota MR2 ect.) need to finish work on my bms first.

So first step will be a parallel hybrid.
 
Hello,
I'm trying to build the same controller as your Tomdb, Honda ima.
Also I have a problem with the measurement FOC motor inductance.
For now trying with little outruner motor from the vehicle water pump 200W 6000RPM and battery 22V.
5 volts on the chip is okey, I used a lot of capacitors and power supply with efficient DC converter.

Thank you very much for help
 
Lebowski said:
kiwifiat said:
This explains the operation of the quadrature encoder well, vastly superior to hall effect resolution.

http://www.ni.com/white-paper/4763/en/
Click to expand...

I mean this looks the same as hall signals, but only 2 instead of 3 (so a full e-revolution is chopped into 4 bits instead of 6 as with halls). So less accurate than halls...
Click to expand...

Well no, yes 4 bits but not per e-revolution. Check out the AS5040 from Austria Micro Systems that is good up to 30,000 rpm.

http://www.ams.com/eng/content/download/1285/7214

512 pulses per mechanical revolution for each channel A and B gives 2048 distinct edge transitions per mechanical revolution or 0.175 degrees mechanical. Obviously multiply this by pole pairs to get e-revolution precision but either way significantly better than available from halls. Some available devices have 4096 pulse per channel per mechanical revolution giving even higher precision. Of course the whole point of going sensorless is to avoid the cost of any kind of encoder but the cost of the AS5040 isn't too bad in my opinion.

You are doing great work with your controller it is really impressive to see what Arlo and others have built with your controller chip.
 
kiwifiat said:
You are doing great work with your controller it is really impressive to see what Arlo and others have built with your controller chip.
Click to expand...
Thanks ;) You come to the island ever? You should come ride in the CrX :)
 
kiwifiat said:
Well no, yes 4 bits but not per e-revolution. Check out the AS5040 from Austria Micro Systems that is good up to 30,000 rpm.

http://www.ams.com/eng/content/download/1285/7214

512 pulses per mechanical revolution for each channel A and B gives 2048 distinct edge transitions per mechanical revolution or 0.175 degrees mechanical. Obviously multiply this by pole pairs to get e-revolution precision but either way significantly better than available from halls. Some available devices have 4096 pulse per channel per mechanical revolution giving even higher precision. Of course the whole point of going sensorless is to avoid the cost of any kind of encoder but the cost of the AS5040 isn't too bad in my opinion.

You are doing great work with your controller it is really impressive to see what Arlo and others have built with your controller chip.
Click to expand...

Interfacing and using a chip like this is no big deal... but there are dozens of chips like this on the market and unless there is a universal way of connecting and readout making an interface to the controller IC is no use. Also, who uses this ? Finally, this particular chip can be configured to give hall sensor like output signals, so can be used with the controller IC.
 
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