LI-ion NiCoMn Battery from BMSBattery

[aaronlim]

The new BMS I ordered came yesterday and i got professional help to replace the BMS. But the result is still the same!

49.7V coming out directly from the battery (without BMS), when i plug it into the BMS, the output is only 24.6V. Seems like the both old and new BMS are working the same way.

Is my battery destroyed?

All individual cells of the battery are 3.8V +- 0.02V. But why when it goes thru the BMS it comes out 24.6V?

 

[Lessss]

Put that no bms 49v battery under a load and measure it then

 

[aaronlim]

Put that no bms 49v battery under a load and measure it then

how do i do that?

Its a 14 pin connector

 

[Lessss]

Your battery has a + end and a - end yes? just temporarily connect right there. you want to see if the battery sags when directly under load bypassing the bms

 

[Rassy]

Aaron, I'm stumped at the moment. So here is the best I can do. Maybe the original BMS was wired wrong (such as the main power negative output to the controller attached to the wrong place), and when the new BMS was installed the wiring was copied which resulted in the same problem.

On the BMSBattery site they have an explosion of the BMS that shows the large black negative from the battery must be attached to the B- point, etc.

Edit: The battery itself should be okay, based on your 13 individual cell measurements.

 

[999zip999]

You can use a house light bulb or two.

 

[dnmun]

.

 

[Lessss]

Edit: The battery itself should be okay, based on your 13 individual cell measurements.

Not if there is an issue with the connectors between the cells.

I had a LIFEPO4 pack that would read full voltage until you tried to use it. It was a faulty fuse.
Had another pack start to do the same. One of the screws had vibrated loose. Tightened that up and all good.

 

[aaronlim]

I am sure there is no issue with the BMS as both old and new BMS behave the same way. 24.7V output. I have checked with BMSbattery and they said its wired correctly after i sent them pictures.

I suspect is what Lesss said is a faulty fuse or something is loose, as before i was having this problem, i was soldering a new connector to it and there was a big spark. Is there a fuse in this battery? What type of fuse is it?

 

[dnmun]

.

 

[aaronlim]

why look for a fuse? you were looking for a toggle switch before and couldn't find it either.

did you ever explain what shorted? did it short again a second time when you got this new BMS?

your pack has full voltage, the output of the BMS is half that because of the leakage. if you put a resistor across the leads it may drop to zero. if current flows when you put the resistor on the leads, it will get hot. if it gets hot, your BMS is functional.

i still think the BMS is shut off because the cells are outa spec somewhere. the BMS is behaving normally, nothing wrong with it or the previous one, imo.

if you shorted the output of the battery again then it may have shut off because of the current surge.

The new BMS was installed professionally by an electrician. I don't think he shorted anything i cannot confirm. I was soldering a C14 connector to the output side of the battery and the spark came from there when i accidentally shorted it. I did not unplug the battery from the BMS as at that time it was all sealed up. After the spark, it started to behave like this which is why i thought i destroyed the BMS, but after a new bms its still the same.

 

[dnmun]

.

 

[999zip999]

Dues it have one of those programable bms's ?

 

[lcyn]

So my guess is the HVC was set too low when that BMS was programmed, since that was one of the things BMSBattery had to set on my replacement BMS.

If the HVC is set at 50V, then why did the battery come out of the box at 53.8V? I tested the voltage the moment i got it. I then played around with it a little but it was never able to start charging until it was below 50V.

BMSbattery is now telling me to try to reset the BMS by shorting the transistor thingy...I have no idea how to do this. I put a voltmeter on the reset transistor on the BMS and it measures 3.23V even when i have plugged out the battery. I tried using a jumper wire to short it but nothing seems to happen...am i doing it the wrong way?

How does one go about shorting the transistor?? They gave me the same advise, but I do not know how to short it. I do not want to damage anything, so if anyone knows how to do this it would be very appreciated if you could help me.

Thank you

 

[Rassy]

If the HVC is set at 50V, then why did the battery come out of the box at 53.8V?

I'm not saying my conclusion is correct, just a good possibility. Just because the battery was shipped with a higher voltage there's no expectation on my part that the BMS they installed on the battery was actually used to charge the battery.

In fact, the battery cells were probably fully charged prior to the installation of the BMS. I've noticed that my battery can sit for weeks without losing significant voltage. Right now it hasn't been used for a week and a half and I just checked and it's at 53.9V. When the charger is plugged in at these voltages nothing happens. Once it is used a little and then plugged into the charger I think the charger pushes it up a little over 54V before shutting off.

 

[lcyn]

How does one go about shorting the transistor?? They gave me the same advise, but I do not know how to short it. I do not want to damage anything, so if anyone knows how to do this it would be very appreciated if you could help me.

This is the picture they sent. Help.

 

[TheBeastie]

Did a bit of research on "Lithium (NCM) Nickel Cobalt Manganese - Li(NiCoMn)" batteries and from what I read the main reason the Lithium Cobalt is around is because the original patent on Lithium Cobalt technology has now expired so it should be cheaper and safer for any company to mass produce it with out any legal problems, yeah you can argue legal problems aren't a big problem in China but they still do exist. The Ebike favorite Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry is the subject of patent disputes.

Li(NiCoMn) is a Tri-element battery, seems like the idea is to combine the three common existing Lithium battery types of "Lithium Manganese", "Lithium Nickel", "Lithium Cobalt" design into what I am calling a "Soup Battery" to get the similar benefits of these different elements into one more chemically stable battery and cut costs.

Got most of this opinion from here http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithiumS.htm
Tri-element cells which combine slightly improved safety (better than Cobalt oxide) with lower cost without compromising the energy density but with slightly lower voltage. Different manufacturers may use different proportions of the three constituent elements, in this case Ni, Co and Mn.

 

[Haste]

anybody else get one of these? updates?

 

[ABTsportsline]

Reading through this thread it sounds like the NiCoMn batteries themselves from BMSbattery are fine, but the BMS they use are subpar.

So if one could install a different BMS, this pack wouldn't be such a bad deal at the lower prices & weight, correct?

 

[Rassy]

So if one could install a different BMS, this pack wouldn't be such a bad deal at the lower prices & weight, correct

I sort of agree, but there are a couple of other points.

They only used 13 cells in series for a 48V battery, and the high resting voltage is lower than a standard 16 cell in series LiFePO4 battery. On top of that, they discharge on a straight line instead of maintaining their higher voltage for the majority of the discharge cycle. So on a 48 volt battery you end up getting a fair amount of your usage in the mid to high 40 volt range instead of the low 50 volt range. If the lower weight is more important than the lower voltage than they become a better deal. I don't know how their lifespan compares to a Ping, but just for the record I have another 48V 15AH Ping on order. It weighs about the same as the BMSBattery 48V 20AH LINiCoMn, but the Ping has the cool little 16 LEDs that I like.

 

[lcyn]

I have had the 48v Li-Ion NiCoMn from BMS battery for over a year now, with about 150 cycles on the battery I use most often. So far It has been excellent, with no loss of capacity yet. I much prefer this battery to the LIPO from Hobbyking (44v nano), since the HK batteries are already puffing and show considerable loss of capacity. Plus the lipos just plain scare me.
I have had very good experiences with BMSbattery customer service, with fast shipping and good product.
I also like the lighter weight and smaller form factor of the Li-Ion NiCoMn, as compared to my Ping battery--I just ordered and received a new one from BMSbattery, and was pleased to see that it is even smaller and lighter than the one from a year ago.

 

[toniovelo]

Very interesting the NiCoMn BMSBattery. I think i buy a 48v 10ah battery (for a bafang BPM it's ok or not???) but what is the really continous discharge current in your tests? 15A/20A/30A? It's not clear! Thanks.

 

[toniovelo]

I forgot, the LI-ion NiCoMn Battery from BMSBattery in 48v 10ah is good to use with bafang bpm code 10 or 11??? Thanks!

 

[toniovelo]

I forgot too, i see on this forum that the BMS (LI-ion NiCoMn Battery from BMSBattery) is upgrade of 15/30A to 20/40A? it's true? Thanks a lot.

 

[eva-michael]

Well at least it works, unlike the dead charger they sent me!!!


EDIT........................

Apologies to bmsbattery!!!!!

It was ev assemble who sent me the dead charger!

Bms battery sent me a working charger!

Oh...That's a unjust misunderstand....I think you made a big mistake about your 48V Li-ion battery pack as you require below customised setting when you order one charger from us.
"16S LiPo 66.4V (charging to 4.15 V per cell NOT 4.2)" as setting requirement in your order. And we made the order as per your requirement.
That's not dead charger problem but wrong setting requirement. We are sorry to hear this. Someone in this forum may help you reset the charger as there is a thread of guidline about how to reset KP charger.

We don't have more information so we really don't know it's for 48V Li ion and not 16S Li ion. If we find something strange, we will email customers for double check. For example, something order sensorless Bafang motor and brushless controller. Then we will surely email customer to double check if they really need these controller as they don't match sensorless motor.

Generally 48V LiPO is 13S. But it's clearly mark 16S LiPo and 4.15V/cell. So it's very clear information and customer also received a copy of his order via email.
We will try to provide you more support if we find out a customer mistake. Not matter it's before sales or after sales.