Lifepo4 and nicd

thomas

10 W
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Dec 1, 2008
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89
Location
Ebeltoft, Denmark
Can they be mixed in parallel safely?

Looking for a way to extend range on my new saxo and a 40cell 60Ah 120V sky energy pack would fit right into the trunk.
Charge it separately from the nicd pack but connect them in parallel when in use. The saxo nicd pack is 120V 100Ah. 100Ah lifepo4 would be ideal but its too expensive and takes up too much space in the trunk.
Since lifepo4 have a flatter discharge curve I guess the Ah difference woldnt be a big issue?
 
in parallel you will need to isolate the two packs with a schottky diode. that will get hot and eat a lot of power while carrying current.

can you add the lifepo4 in series? or why not add more nicads in series? you could put another 60V of 100Ah on top if the electronics will handle that. knowing how much voltage the controller will take is the hard part.

do you know how your nicads are laid out now? what size cells and how many strings are there in parallel now? maybe add more nicads in parallel so you can use the same charger and controller.

it is so pretty, whatta car. so far ahead of the times. citroen has that reputation.
 
The nicd pack consist of 20 6v saft blocks in series.

The citroen berlingo runs higher voltage and has similar electronics but a motor rated for higher voltages. I doubt it would be safe to run the saxo motor at higher voltages.

Just to get it right the schottky diode prevents current flowing back into the pack?
 
if you have the lifepo4 in parallel with your nicad. at full charge the nicad will be 141V and in order to match that with lifepo4 you would have about 40 lifepo4 cells in series at 3.5V, just kinda an arbitrary example.

the nicad will be full expended when they get to 100V and there is risk that even that voltage cutoff would allow some cells to be pulled under 1V which is not healthy for them and i assume the saft 5S modules supervise that.

your 40S lifepo4 will go as low as 85V, though 100V is a reasonable cutoff number and you could actually get most (90%)of the capacity from the cells at 100V low shutoff.

the schottky diode is there to protect the good side from discharging into the bad side if the voltage on the bad side drops so low that it would cause the good side to overdischarge and pull the cells below their minimum operating voltage. that could damage cells in the good pack if they are in parallel so the schottky is there to prevent the current from flowing into the pack from the other one. it always allows the current to flow out, just prevents current from flowing into the pack if it is dead and therefore protects the good pack from overdischarge.

that's why i asked if you could use another pack in series, because then it is easier to use the pack without the need for a diode in series. the diodes get hot too, and for a 200A draw, really hot. then maybe a FET type isolator like tiberius is making would be more appropriate in any case since it doesn't soak up the power and make heat as easily.

the used nicads in the saft 5S packs should be in relatively good shape if they are supervised, even after many years but finding them used, or even finding a junkyard which haas a used vehicle is unlikely without some real effort i would assume, but then your charger would be working at the same level and just charging more cells if they are all in parallel, but again you have to worry about putting packs in parallel even if they are the same chemistry and worry if the charger would see endpoint too, but this seems like a more reasonable effort. it would extend your range and give you a little more acceleration maybe, but you would not get the increased top speed you may be able to get by adding the lifepo4 or whatever in series. but that speed boost may be limited in the controller anyway.

others are much more knowledgable about batteries than me though so maybe they can offer an opinion.
 
Thanks for diode clarification

I believe the nicds are just overcharged causing them to self balance(the watering is done after a certain amount of overcharge hours) leaving them balanced enough to just measure total voltage.

I could also run one pack at a time simply switch to the other pack when needed with some simple relay control not sure how this would effect the energy meter systems in the car though. Need to find some experts on the sagem electronics and how they actually works.
 
after getting mine, I think that I will try to sell the nicd batteries. They usually cost a lot, so selling them will give me some room to buy a nice TS pack. I will have to study a lot to integrate it with the system and with the existing charger to give it an oem look. or I'll just make an external display to see the status of the charge, whatever. looks like these guys have interesting prices for batteries, plus they are in EU so no duties and lower shipping:
http://3xe-electric-cars.com/index.php?/virtuemart/3xE-LiFePO4-battery-lithium-iron-phosphate.html
We'll see....
 
I dumped this idea and started planning a TS conversion like you plan to do.

With a new charger the only thing that wont work is the energy meter from others experience.
I'm planning to use the water system to heat up the cells in cold weather.

Ive talk a little with 3x and their priced are pretty good so thats where I'm planning to get my cells from.
Last I asked for a quote they would ship the cells to Denmark for free.
 
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