LightningRods mid drive kit

[Wishes]

Hi Mike,

I have just got back to my Titus project with the GNG and LR top and bottom plates, only to discover that the jackshaft from the GNG is bent on the freewheel side. Is the jackshaft you sell the same as the GNG original or will I need to buy the LR belt sprocket and a different freewheel as well? And/or if anyone has an original GNG jackshaft available, I'll buy that too.

Alex

If you bent 1 gng jackshaft you will bend another. I went through 2 of them before I decided to replace it. But then again I do have LR's belt upgrade and plates.

His jackshaft has a key lock on both ends like the gng stock one. I don't see why it could not be used as a replacement for the stock gng jackshaft. But LR will be able to confirm that.

 

[LightningRods]

Yes I intentionally made this first jackshaft as a replacement part. GNG is very inconsistent about providing replacement parts. Some parts at some times Jon is very cooperative about selling. Other parts, like motors, he'll charge you nearly the price of the entire kit and then charge you the same amount for shipping as if it were a complete kit. I tried to order a jackshaft months ago and he ignored me. Skyungjae tried to order one and was successful. It depends on Jon's mood (and his cash flow no doubt).

If anything breaks on your GNG kit, I can replace it with a better part.

I will be offering different jackshaft designs in the future including wider GNG style shafts and housings for wider motors and BBs and also full custom jackshafts built to customer specs. I'm pondering outer support bearings to stop these bending issues.

 

[windtrader]

Hello LR,

I'm still finalizing the specs for my build. One of the things about the GNG and LR kits as well as others is the configuration of the motor below downtube. Is this done to accommodate the most variety of frames, especially FS?

The reason I ask is it seems like it would be cleaner and more secure to mount the system up and inside the triangular space. Obviously, a lot of frames would not work but many would too. Even then, maybe there are too many variations to have a common kit fit so it would require a custom mount.

I'm sort of stuck on this point of mounting motor below or above the downtube. Ideas?

Thanks

 

[Wishes]

Hello LR,

I'm still finalizing the specs for my build. One of the things about the GNG and LR kits as well as others is the configuration of the motor below downtube. Is this done to accommodate the most variety of frames, especially FS?

The reason I ask is it seems like it would be cleaner and more secure to mount the system up and inside the triangular space. Obviously, a lot of frames would not work but many would too. Even then, maybe there are too many variations to have a common kit fit so it would require a custom mount.

I'm sort of stuck on this point of mounting motor below or above the downtube. Ideas?

Thanks

I think your right about why it was originally designed to fit under the tube. It will fit a larger amount of bike models than inside the triangle. Also a lot of people using the space inside the triangle for batteries.

Although LR's plates are solid as hell. I suppose in theory there is probably an advantage to have the motor mounted inside the triangle. It could provide more secure mounting points to fix the motor to the frame versus a motor hanging underneath the tube with side brackets. But as you said, that will require custom work for most frames.

Wishes

 

[spinningmagnets]

The first LR kit has to fit the most possible frames so Mike can start to make a profit...he is underwater right now, with no financial backers. After the initial costs are recouped, I am certain he will be developing several other products to service the heavy-duty off-road market, and...it sounds like a left-side drive "big block" kit for 100mm-BB fat bikes, but...we'll see soon.

Everything depends on the buying publics' response to the first kits.

 

[LightningRods]

I've always liked the idea of motor inside the triangle designs. I also like the idea of joining motor and pedal power in a jackshaft between the BB and rear wheel. So much of the time it does come down to what there is room for. The frustrating irony for me is that full suspension downhill bikes are the best candidates for a mid drive and they are the models with almost no room inside the frame. It's all taken up by suspension linkages, shocks and reservoirs. Cruiser bikes and cargo bikes, which can get along fine with a hub motor most of the time, have tons of room for all sorts of great mid drive designs.

My plan at this point is to offer this current layout in 68mm, 73mm, 83mm and 100mm widths. I am going to start with small block versions and then see how well the 103mm wide big blocks fit each of these BB widths. The 100mm BB will be a slam dunk obviously. I won't know if I can shoehorn the wide motor into a 68mm BB until I try.

I'm already talking to people about custom builds. Joe from British Columbia sent his Giant DH Team full suspension bike frame down to me. It has a 100mm BB and the steep front frame tube typical on FS bikes. I talked over the idea of doing one off sheets with my laser shop and they said as long as I have some kind of production run to throw them in with that it's no problem. So the 'universal' off the rack kits will make it possible to do the custom builds that I'm most excited about.

People have mentioned other motor designs and for a custom build I'll work with anything the customer wants. For my production runs I'm going to stick with the 'GNG' design motors because they are a great value and create some consistency for batches of parts. GNG gave you one BB width, I'm going to offer four. That makes things complicated enough for right now.

My sea freighted shipment of small block motors is due in April 20. I'm trying to clean up existing orders and prepare for a rush of business when I have completed kits ready to ship. My plan is to keep parts inventory to build 20 kits at any one time.

 

[windtrader]

I am leaning toward a left side drive now and confirming the gearing options for optimal efficiency and power for the terrain I'll be riding (some pretty long steep hills, i.e 1500' ele gain in 2 miles), I stumbled across some performance graphs a few days ago and just can not find them now. They showed how the motor performs at various voltages. I would love to see a few shown at 48 and above. Thanks in advance, Don

 

[teslanv]

As a rider who generally wears jeans, would I be asking for trouble if I used one of these kits with loose pant legs? - Do you offer chain/belt guards?

 

[LightningRods]

I'm working on a big block direct drive right now on a Giant DH Team FS bike. I have another customer with a Giant DH Team who wants a small block running through the BB and rear derailleur. It will be interesting to see how the two very different installs on the same type of bike will compare. I'm developing a 100mm BB motor mount that I hope will work for both installs.

Speaking of the direct drive on the left, is there a particular hub that people have been having good luck with for mounting both a disc brake and a single run sprocket on the left side?

 

[LightningRods]

As a rider who generally wears jeans, would I be asking for trouble if I used one of these kits with loose pant legs? - Do you offer chain/belt guards?

I'm working on both a full primary side enclosure (meant for my belt drive but should also work for chain drives) and guards for the driver and driven sprockets on the secondary side. There always seems to be something else.....

 

[windtrader]

Speaking of the direct drive on the left, is there a particular hub that people have been having good luck with for mounting both a disc brake and a single run sprocket on the left side?

So far the best I'm thinking is using the disc brake mounting for the chain and a regular c style cable brake for the rear. Plan on a disc up front for certain.

 

[teslanv]

As a rider who generally wears jeans, would I be asking for trouble if I used one of these kits with loose pant legs? - Do you offer chain/belt guards?

I'm working on both a full primary side enclosure (meant for my belt drive but should also work for chain drives) and guards for the driver and driven sprockets on the secondary side. There always seems to be something else.....

LR - That would be the feature that finally convinces me (as mostly a commuter) to buy one of these kits.

 

[LightningRods]

I'm very pleased to announce that I'm going to be working with long time E-S member Edward Lyen to provide a plug and play controller solution for my kits (and a great upgrade for any GNG). Edward is well known here as the 'go-to guy' for quality high performance controllers at a very reasonable price. Here is a description of what we're putting together:

"For the GNG or equivalent motor with voltage range between 48-72V and up to 40 amps would be the 12 FET 4110 Mark II Extreme Modder LYEN Edition Controller ($139). This controller utilizes switching voltage regulation circuitry for better efficiency, less heat than the power resistor, and wider range of voltages without making change on the resistor network. It can actually operate from 36V to 84V without any changes. Therefore, your request to operate it from 48V to 72V is absolutely perfect.

Yes, I can add the Cycle Analyst version 2 & 3 compatible connection to the controller ($4)."

This covers everything that I want in a controller. I'm going to ship a motor down to Edward so that we can sort out the details. He will ship directly to customers who contact him and ask for the "LightningRods Special" controller. For international customers I can take delivery of the controller and include it in your package to save international shipping.

And of course for you hard core power freaks, Edward has even more powerful controllers. We'll come up with some sort of electric sub station for the big block. Start saving for batteries.

 

[teslanv]

I'm very pleased to announce that I'm going to be working with long time E-S member Edward Lyen to provide a plug and play controller solution for my kits (and a great upgrade for any GNG). Edward is well known here as the 'go-to guy' for quality high performance controllers at a very reasonable price. Here is a description of what we're putting together:

"For the GNG or equivalent motor with voltage range between 48-72V and up to 40 amps would be the 12 FET 4110 Mark II Extreme Modder LYEN Edition Controller ($139). This controller utilizes switching voltage regulation circuitry for better efficiency, less heat than the power resistor, and wider range of voltages without making change on the resistor network. It can actually operate from 36V to 84V without any changes. Therefore, your request to operate it from 48V to 72V is absolutely perfect.

Yes, I can add the Cycle Analyst version 2 & 3 compatible connection to the controller ($4)."

This covers everything that I want in a controller. I'm going to ship a motor down to Edward so that we can sort out the details. He will ship directly to customers who contact him and ask for the "LightningRods Special" controller. For international customers I can take delivery of the controller and include it in your package to save international shipping.

And of course for you hard core power freaks, Edward has even more powerful controllers. We'll come up with some sort of electric sub station for the big block. Start saving for batteries.

Awesome. - I know Lyen also sells throttles, ebrakes etc. So between the two of you guys you should be able to supply a complete kit, less battery. Perfect for the lazy builder like myself

 

[LightningRods]

Awesome. - I know Lyen also sells throttles, ebrakes etc. So between the two of you guys you should be able to supply a complete kit, less battery. Perfect for the lazy builder like myself

Yep, Lyen is the other half of my brain on e-bikes. I don't have the time, inclination, and probably the cranial capacity to become as knowledgeable about electronics as he is. Plus he's a really good guy with a great attitude. My plate is full. I'll rely on him for the electronic controls.

 

[turbo1889]

As far as your question for what rear hubs are being used for left side direct drives go I've been using mainly the Staton-Inc. double threaded hubs for that (south paw freewheel threads on left side of hub, regular freewheel threads on right side of hub). I think you will find it is a rare left side direct drive build that also has a rear disk brake as well. Most of us are sacrificing rear disk brake for the left side drive and going to V-brake rear and disk brake front combo which works pretty well if you get good quality pads for the rear V-brake. Most of your braking capability is in the front anyway.

 

[skyungjae]

Subscribed.

I'm glad to see LightningRods' products diverge from the massive GNG thread. 8)

As for my build, I've "upgraded" my 9 speed Shimano Deore drivetrain to a SRAM X7 8 speed drivetrain.

The X7 shifter shifting is all done with the thumbs, so it's much easier to upshift into a smaller cog while reducing the throttle load. It was very difficult reaching over and triggering with my index finger and operating the throttle.

I'm curious if the Lyen controller will have the option for an external speed sensor and a Cycle Analyst plug. That would be awesome. :wink:

 

[Wishes]

Subscribed.

I'm glad to see LightningRods' products diverge from the massive GNG thread. 8)

As for my build, I've "upgraded" my 9 speed Shimano Deore drivetrain to a SRAM X7 8 speed drivetrain.

The X7 shifter shifting is all done with the thumbs, so it's much easier to upshift into a smaller cog while reducing the throttle load. It was very difficult reaching over and triggering with my index finger and operating the throttle.

I'm curious if the Lyen controller will have the option for an external speed sensor and a Cycle Analyst plug. That would be awesome. :wink:

I think the external speed sensor is more dependent on the version of CA you have. As for the CA plug, Lyen definitely can wire controllers for them, but will the plug be included at this special price, I don't know. Good question.

Wishes

 

[LightningRods]

I'm glad to see LightningRods' products diverge from the massive GNG thread. 8)

I'm curious if the Lyen controller will have the option for an external speed sensor and a Cycle Analyst plug. That would be awesome. :wink:

I believe that it's an additional $4 to have Lyen wire in a CA plug. I know that he does it and I know it's inexpensive. Lyen's a great person to work with. I'm really excited about how this complete package is going to work out.

I'll still be over on the GNG thread but hopefully it will be easier to find what you're looking for here, at least for a while.

Edit: Yes, I said right in my announcement about Lyen that he adds CA for $4. The CA has a wheel mounted magnetic speed sensor that sends info to the CA. You not only get a speedo readout on the CA display, the CA can be programmed to limit max speed on motor to keep you legal on the street.

SpinningMagnets is sending me some of his thermistor temperature senders to interface with the CA. I can embed them in the motors while I have them apart modding the spindles. That should provide temp data as well as a heat triggered power rollback to keep the overvolters from turning the motor into a toaster.

 

[teslanv]

I'm glad to see LightningRods' products diverge from the massive GNG thread. 8)

I'm curious if the Lyen controller will have the option for an external speed sensor and a Cycle Analyst plug. That would be awesome. :wink:

I believe that it's an additional $4 to have Lyen wire in a CA plug. I know that he does it and I know it's inexpensive. Lyen's a great person to work with. I'm really excited about how this complete package is going to work out.

I'll still be over on the GNG thread but hopefully it will be easier to find what you're looking for here, at least for a while.

Edit: Yes, I said right in my announcement about Lyen that he adds CA for $4. The CA has a wheel mounted magnetic speed sensor that sends info to the CA. You not only get a speedo readout on the CA display, the CA can be programmed to limit max speed on motor to keep you legal on the street.

SpinningMagnets is sending me some of his thermistor temperature senders to interface with the CA. I can embed them in the motors while I have them apart modding the spindles. That should provide temp data as well as a heat triggered power rollback to keep the overvolters from turning the motor into a toaster.

Shaping up to be the PERFECT Mid-Drive Kit...

Show me those belt/Chain Covers and I am sold.

 

[scorpionice]

Waiting is hard.

 

[LightningRods]

Shaping up to be the PERFECT Mid-Drive Kit...

Show me those belt/Chain Covers and I am sold.

They're coming! Laser cut sheet ABS and cast urethane on the primary side and laser cut steel on the secondary. I've done the design work. I just have to pay the man to make them.

 

[oatnet]

Subscribed. After seeing so many markets for sturdy US products getting undercut by cheaply made Chinese versions, it is nice to see the market for a cheaply made Chinese product about to be undercut by a sturdily made US version. :lol: Kudos!

-JD

 

[LightningRods]

Subscribed. After seeing so many markets for sturdy US products getting undercut by cheaply made Chinese versions, it is nice to see the market for a cheaply made Chinese product about to be undercut by a sturdily made US version. :lol: Kudos!
-JD

Thanks JD! We can't let China make EVERYTHING! :lol:

 

[turbo1889]

"Quality" and/or "Custom" and/or "Heavy-Duty" are the market nitches where U.S. made can still kick China rear.