LightningRods mid drive kit

[LightningRods]

Another thing to consider when choosing a belt drive system is what tooth counts of sprockets you can find. With the particular supplier that I use, the smallest M5 driver you can get is 18T. The smallest M8 driver is 22T. To get a 5:1 reduction you'd need a 110T driven. A 110T M8 has a pitch circumference of 880mm or over 34 inches. That's 11 inches across!

If it isn't obvious to readers Matt uses M5 pulleys in the primary stage to get a lot of reduction in a small space and then M8 in the secondary stage to handle the slower speeds and higher torque.

 

[Dani]

I see.. thanks for the explanation.

 

[recumpence]

Another thing to consider when choosing a belt drive system is what tooth counts of sprockets you can find. With the particular supplier that I use, the smallest M5 driver you can get is 18T. The smallest M8 driver is 22T. To get a 5:1 reduction you'd need a 110T driven. A 110T M8 has a pitch circumference of 880mm or over 34 inches. That's 11 inches across!

If it isn't obvious to readers Matt uses M5 pulleys in the primary stage to get a lot of reduction in a small space and then M8 in the secondary stage to handle the slower speeds and higher torque.

8mm pitch will handle 14 tooth, but it is a custom part. I stock 16 tooth 5mm pullies.

Matt

 

[jdevo2004]

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[t0me]

I wouldn't worry about the phase wires, I've been running 38A through mine for many months (original GNG supplied kit/motor) without any heat or other power issues.

 

[ebike11]

Well I got my kit today hurray! I have lots of time in the coming days so hopefully I will have it up and running by this weekend.

I have been working on the installation for the past 5 hours or so with some minor hiccups. A couple of missing nuts, a couple of holes not threaded, but they are both for the belt and chain guards so not a big deal. I had to rearrange the crankset bearing to the outside to allow for more clearance for the crank arm and the crankset chain guard. A Home Depot trip is in order to buy some washers to fix spacing issues with chains, and a lot of head scratching when it came down to removing the old BB and installing the new one. I am finished for the night but have a couple of questions.
First of all I am not impressed with the stock phase wires that come with the motor. They do not look like they can handle much current. Do you think it is safe to run 30 amps through the controller with those wires?
Second, I remember seeing a post that says the phase wires do not match up by color when using an Infinion controller which I have. I understand that Lyen has flipped some wires to color code it properly. What wires go where for the Infinion controller?

Cant wait for vids!!!

 

[jdevo2004]

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[Fredorbea]

Wow! it will be interesting to see and hear a video when it is loaded but that is way noisier than what I was expecting.
Sounds a bit like a blender. Is the "buzzing" the freewheel on the primary side? :?

 

[t0me]

Definitely sounds like something's not right.
Anything rubbing?
How's your belt tension?

 

[emaayan]

well actually a lot like my motor, especially the zoom zoom

 

[spinningmagnets]

The noise level is going to continue to be a subject of speculation. I'm sure we have all seen videos of an E-bike being ridden, and the hub-motor noise (along with the wind noise) sound very loud...even if the kit being shown is known to have only a modest noise level. I think the best way to compare the noise level is to have two different kits next to each other (with the rear wheels in the air, of course)...and to spin up each for a moment.

That way, the same microphone placed at the same distance to each kit will provide a comparative example of the loudness of each kit.

This brings up another question, what is a good distance to place a dB meter? ES establishes E-bike standards, so if we take a dB meter brand "X" and place it two meters away from a path-line, and the bike rides past it...is that a reasonable test?

edit: Also, putting the motor next to a wall is guaranteed to reflect the noise back onto the listener/microphone. My stuff is always quieter in the outdoors, regardless of which kit I'm testing...

 

[skyungjae]

The noise level is going to continue to be a subject of speculation. I'm sure we have all seen videos of an E-bike being ridden, and the hub-motor noise (along with the wind noise) sound very loud...even if the kit being shown is known to have only a modest noise level. I think the best way to compare the noise level is to have two different kits next to each other (with the rear wheels in the air, of course)...and to spin up each for a moment.

That way, the same microphone placed at the same distance to each kit will provide a comparative example of the loudness of each kit.

This brings up another question, what is a good distance to place a dB meter? ES establishes E-bike standards, so if we take a dB meter brand "X" and place it two meters away from a path-line, and the bike rides past it...is that a reasonable test?

+1

LR's kit is substantially quieter than the standard GNG kit; however, if you pick up the bike and full throttle it, it does make some noise. Riding on the trail, most people won't know the wiser that you're riding an ebike as you pass inches away from them going up a hill.

The fact of the matter is that we don't ride no load at full RPM like in a video game. Even if we can get to high RPMs while riding, there are a ton of other noise factors like tires that add or drown out the actual motor sound.

This kit is probably quieter than most comparable mid-drives out there (others that produce similar power). :wink:

 

[spinningmagnets]

I am embarrassed that I haven't gotten mine running yet, I am waiting for a custom battery that should arrive soon, plus I am finishing upgrades so I can refinance my house to a lower interest rate, while making preparations for the Interbike trip.

Does anybody know if a sinewave controller helps with the motor noise at all? There has been some speculation that with the unavoidable chain and tire noise, the mild buzzing of an affordable square-wave controller on this motor might not make any difference...

 

[jimnasium]

OK I found the wiring post and got it set up. There is a weird cycling of the throttle at some points that I assume is from the cheap throttle control or not programming the controller or cycle analyst. I will get around to figuring out how to do all that later. I will try to do some vids, but as you can tell by the quality of this first vid, my phone is pretty crappy. Oh well, some vids are better than none.
BTW this is at 104 volts.

One thing I picked up on in the video at low RPM (around the 0:47 mark) is the kind of "thunk thunk thunk" sound. Mine does that too. In my case, I think my freewheel on jackshaft has some runout, or perhaps it is the bearing inside the jackshaft. I backed off on my belt tension and it seems to help.

 

[jdevo2004]

It is noisy, but not as noisy as the video makes it out to be. First I am in an enclosed area and second is that you do not have any background noise for reference. Right at the end of the video it cuts out you can hear my chair squeak so I guess that is the only other sound of reference you have haha.
As for the cause of the noise, I speculate that some of it comes from the ACS front pully which you can tell was manufactured in Lightningrods shop. The teeth of the plastic/nylon pully are gritty. I am certain it is causing some noise and excess friction. I have read in past posts that Mike wants to get around to making that part better but for me it is good enough for now. I would upgrade it later if Mike makes a better part for it. It would also not be too hard to design a better version in emachineshop for those not willing to wait although that option could be a bit pricey for low batch runs.

I just got up and eating breakfast. Ill be back to installing in a couple of hours and get another video of it in a later stage. Maybe Ill even talk so you guys get a better reference of the sound.

 

[jdevo2004]

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[speedmd]

It seems much louder than my GNG1. Do you have a power meter on it. What voltage? Clamp meter anywhere near by? Could have a hall wired wrong. I remember mine sounding load when I swapped out with one of the many controllers I tried that was wired different. Is it getting hot to the touch quickly? Check it before you melt something.

 

[r3volved]

Ya that sounds similar to my gng1.1 with no belt.
But that's not the sound it makes when it's all together and rolling down the street.

 

[givitago]

Sounds pretty similar to mine. Check out the video I posted in my build thread in my signature. I figure I have the halls correct as the temps are low and it is pretty smooth like yours. The wrong combinations really grind. It would be cool if it could be cured by a different hall combo though.

 

[sparkz]

Just watched a very short video of LR spinning up one of his big block motors, and the sound seemed much quieter than the ones just posted. Is that a quality of the big block motor, or is something else going on?

 

[Deanwvu]

You can't compare videos from different people in different places with different equipment.

 

[sparkz]

Understood - too many variables. I tried to match volumes on the voice portion of the tracks, but that still leaves quite a bit of variance. It's just that the pitch and harmonics seemed so different. There are several ways of measuring sound levels; a weighted SPL is a general measure, but even that is pretty useless considering the widely varying conditions we will be using the kit in. I was wondering at the perceived sound differences between the two motors. Is this a v6 versus v8 kind of thing?

 

[melodious]

:lol: Seems the new ES members with the LR kit are a bit skittish of the sound of power. Put it on the bikes and gear up with protective equipment and tell us what you think

Edit: @100+ volts I hope your throttle hand is feathery smooth

 

[Deanwvu]

Understood - too many variables. I tried to match volumes on the voice portion of the tracks, but that still leaves quite a bit of variance. It's just that the pitch and harmonics seemed so different. There are several ways of measuring sound levels; a weighted SPL is a general measure, but even that is pretty useless considering the widely varying conditions we will be using the kit in. I was wondering at the perceived sound differences between the two motors. Is this a v6 versus v8 kind of thing?

Likely that the different recording devices used, as well as the dynamics of the spaces they were in, would emphasize different frequencies of the sound produced by the motor and kit.

All that matters is two aspects of real world testing:

1. Does the sound annoy you (the operator)?

2. Does the sound annoy/scare/freak out other cyclists or pedestrians?

Those are more reliable questions that require real world testing.

If the sound is too much, I'm sure the LR kit will be easy to resell here

 

[Fredorbea]

:lol: Seems the new ES members with the LR kit are a bit skittish of the sound of power. Put it on the bikes and gear up with protective equipment and tell us what you think

Edit: @100+ volts I hope your throttle hand is feathery smooth

Put it on the bikes is right! There are quite a few kits out there now and I don't know about everyone else but I want info and videos. There is only 3 build threads, all of which have almost no activity.