Fredorbea
100 mW
So its been cracked since new then? That's the noise we all noticed in the first video I guess. Bummer just when you were starting to have some fun.
LightningRods mid drive kit
- Thread starter spinningmagnets
- Start date
i was thinking, why can't we use the bottle bottle screws to help anchor the kit
as i understand the placment as well as distance of the screws is considered standard in a frame.
LR could build an "anchor" similar to the a pump holder to hold it to a frame, only instead of the arms hugging a pump they would extend around the down tube and be bolted to the kit. just you'll have 2 bolts holding the anchor instead of a band which is used with just pressure, or you could run a bolt through these arms to connect them as well as the kit.
as i understand the placment as well as distance of the screws is considered standard in a frame.
LR could build an "anchor" similar to the a pump holder to hold it to a frame, only instead of the arms hugging a pump they would extend around the down tube and be bolted to the kit. just you'll have 2 bolts holding the anchor instead of a band which is used with just pressure, or you could run a bolt through these arms to connect them as well as the kit.
Cryptic
10 W
That'd be where my rear shock attaches 
TriPhase
100 µW
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2014
- Messages
- 9
emaayan said:
OK, I’m more the EE dude then ME dude, but my understanding is that the water bottle mounting bosses are often ‘press fit’ into the frame; They are great at keeping a water bottle in place but they just aren’t designed to take any serious load, torsion or otherwise. Deformation of the down tube might result, followed by deformation of the rider.
Although I don’t have L-R’s kit (yet), nor an exploded diagram, it seems that the mounting bracket (and shifting side plate) force to counter is torsion. How about using a variation of a ‘torque arm,’ possibly extending over to the seat tube? Although this could be a bummer for some bikes it would convert the twisting force into two lateral forces, which might be easier to deal with.
Cryptic
10 W
emaayan said:Cryptic said:That'd be where my rear shock attaches
so you don't have a place on the downtube for pump/bottle?
Nope.
BRK
10 mW
jdevo2004 said:Driving around. Sorry but I do not have a GoPro, just a regular camera. The video is crappy, the sound is crappy, the stabilization of the video makes you sick, but it is better than nothing while you wait for your kits to arrive!
Note: I ease into the throttle when taking off and changing gears. It has more torque than I would like to put into my system all ......
Your videos were great! Not that sickening at all. The jittery sky did look kinda weird there for a moment. I could hear the motor whine in the background, and it did not sound that bad to me. What was significantly annoying was that clackety-grinding noise in the foreground? Was that what it really sounded like? Hope not. I hope it was your camera vibrating against your bike or something.
You ride a lot like I do with smooth power on and power off, I never seem to break many parts that way.
Thank you so much for your videos as you are the first to show this kit in action. There are several build threads, but they all seemed to just never get there until yours.
I am beginning to understand the torque issue better now with the twisting of the motor assembly toward the chain side. I have an early eco-speed set up and I wondered why the under tube mount seemed to be over designed, but now I realize that they did it to overcome this tendency for the small gear to climb the chain and pull the entire assembly to the right side of the bike. This past weekend I tried the eco speed set up my bike with some clamps and it was a complete fail. The motor twisted around and even bent the bottom bracket mount a little bit. The older ecospeed mount only mounts on one side of the bottom bracket, so it is susceptible to this. The eco speed solution was to install 4 ea rivet nuts in the underside of the down tube and secure the motor bracket to that. They have since redesigned the entire bracket system, so I am not sure how it works now.
My kit is due in any day, so we'll see what I can come up with. I have a very limited set of tools here and I'll have to be creative.
BRK said:jdevo2004 said:Driving around. Sorry but I do not have a GoPro, just a regular camera. The video is crappy, the sound is crappy, the stabilization of the video makes you sick, but it is better than nothing while you wait for your kits to arrive!
Note: I ease into the throttle when taking off and changing gears. It has more torque than I would like to put into my system all ......
Your videos were great! Not that sickening at all. The jittery sky did look kinda weird there for a moment. I could hear the motor whine in the background, and it did not sound that bad to me. What was significantly annoying was that clackety-grinding noise in the foreground? Was that what it really sounded like? Hope not. I hope it was your camera vibrating against your bike or something.
You ride a lot like I do with smooth power on and power off, I never seem to break many parts that way.
Thank you so much for your videos as you are the first to show this kit in action. There are several build threads, but they all seemed to just never get there until yours.
I am beginning to understand the torque issue better now with the twisting of the motor assembly toward the chain side. I have an early eco-speed set up and I wondered why the under tube mount seemed to be over designed, but now I realize that they did it to overcome this tendency for the small gear to climb the chain and pull the entire assembly to the right side of the bike. This past weekend I tried the eco speed set up my bike with some clamps and it was a complete fail. The motor twisted around and even bent the bottom bracket mount a little bit. The older ecospeed mount only mounts on one side of the bottom bracket, so it is susceptible to this. The eco speed solution was to install 4 ea rivet nuts in the underside of the down tube and secure the motor bracket to that. They have since redesigned the entire bracket system, so I am not sure how it works now.
My kit is due in any day, so we'll see what I can come up with. I have a very limited set of tools here and I'll have to be creative.
a fellow ecospeeder
, i don't know how it used to be, the new one ,mounts on both side of the BB, and it doesn't bent at all (maybe just a few mm on itself) they just came out with a new motor which uses a solid neodymium iron boron magnets, which should give higher torque , but, the rpm has decreased to 64 rpm/ volts, they are selling it for ...500$.
with the current planetary gear reduction they are using i can't reach the speeds i want, unless i'll order from them a custom planetary of 3.71 instead of 4.80 they have now. that should give around 2000 rpm, but that one only yields around 50 kph according to my calculations. they only other "solution" is to get a 72v pack
(as for the cracked magent, i wouldn't choke it to bad quality just yet, my BROKEN magnets images are scattered around the forum, and even though i thought initially it was due to heat or speed, EVdeals have raised an interesting suggestion that it might be to a mis-aligned bearing just a little which caused the magnet to rub against the fins and eventually brake.i'm currently using the last magnet i have , and can't get more of them, so i'm hoping he's right.
L-R mentioned earlier that he has gotten a few defective motors in the past so this might one of them.
brixmitch
10 mW
emaayan said:
Brilliant!
LightningRods
1 MW
I just sent jdevo2004 a new motor. I'm not sure why the magnet cracked. We struggled like hell trying to anneal and lathe turn the motor shafts. All I can tell you after three months of effing hell is to never, ever try to anneal a steel motor shaft. They shrink, they warp, they do everything but tie themselves in a knot. I installed the first of the new motor shafts in jdevo2004's replacement motor today and it ran smooth, quiet and strong. I'm hugely relieved.
I had 20 motor shafts annealed before machining. About 10 of them were shipped out to customers. If any of the first 10 have issues with clicking or tapping noises I will replace their motor shaft with a new hardened one at no charge. I did my best guys and it didn't work out. All I can do is fix it for you. I'm ordering 20 new motor shafts from the factory to have machined as replacements.
It's a bit overwhelming to have all of you smarties out there dissecting and redesigning my kit but it's actually a really good thing. I've gotten as far as I have from all of the E-S commentary on how GNG should have designed their kit. The difference is that GNG doesn't listen and I do.
I've revised the hardware for the lower bracket and I can really see a difference. Absolutely splitting the hardware into left and right sections is the way to go. I will be making some upgrades on my next run of laser cut steel but just changing the hardware out makes all the difference. You can see the bolts on both sides bending and clamping the sheet steel securely together. Thanks to Jimnasium and the rest who came up with that mod.
I have four kits sitting here that were completely assembled with the old motor shafts and long bracket bolts. I'm now painting and prepping motors with the new motor shafts to replace the annealed ones installed in the kits. I also need to swap out all of the bottom bracket hardware. They should be ready to go out this week.
I am not going to screw around with the wiring and other parts inside of the motors. I will install thermistors when asked because that's a simple add on that doesn't get into the factory wiring and grommets. We are going to need to agree on how the wires for the temp sender will exit the case. The factory grommet is completely fused around the phase and sensor wires and doesn't allow room for more wires. I think we have to drill an additional hole and add a round rubber wiring grommet for the sender wires.
I had 20 motor shafts annealed before machining. About 10 of them were shipped out to customers. If any of the first 10 have issues with clicking or tapping noises I will replace their motor shaft with a new hardened one at no charge. I did my best guys and it didn't work out. All I can do is fix it for you. I'm ordering 20 new motor shafts from the factory to have machined as replacements.
It's a bit overwhelming to have all of you smarties out there dissecting and redesigning my kit but it's actually a really good thing. I've gotten as far as I have from all of the E-S commentary on how GNG should have designed their kit. The difference is that GNG doesn't listen and I do.
I've revised the hardware for the lower bracket and I can really see a difference. Absolutely splitting the hardware into left and right sections is the way to go. I will be making some upgrades on my next run of laser cut steel but just changing the hardware out makes all the difference. You can see the bolts on both sides bending and clamping the sheet steel securely together. Thanks to Jimnasium and the rest who came up with that mod.
I have four kits sitting here that were completely assembled with the old motor shafts and long bracket bolts. I'm now painting and prepping motors with the new motor shafts to replace the annealed ones installed in the kits. I also need to swap out all of the bottom bracket hardware. They should be ready to go out this week.
I am not going to screw around with the wiring and other parts inside of the motors. I will install thermistors when asked because that's a simple add on that doesn't get into the factory wiring and grommets. We are going to need to agree on how the wires for the temp sender will exit the case. The factory grommet is completely fused around the phase and sensor wires and doesn't allow room for more wires. I think we have to drill an additional hole and add a round rubber wiring grommet for the sender wires.
LightningRods
1 MW
All kits shipped from here on will have the factory hardened shafts and revised lower bracket hardware.
skyungjae
10 kW
jdevo2004 said:[youtube]1cn5oW38dks[/youtube]
I am going to use this chain guide: Bionicon C-Guide
The Bionicon C.Guide did not work for me when it came to chain retention. My chain would still come off over the top of the ring.
If you have room, you may want to get some sort of chain guide:
This one I used with my old GNG kit worked wonders. I never had a chain drop off any jump or how rough the terrain got. There are more simpler smaller designs you could probably find out that that'll clear the #219 set up.
--freeride--
100 W
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2011
- Messages
- 237
Or you get a damped derailleur...
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
I don't intend to single out a particular individual. The reason I decided to mention this is, that it is a frequent occurrence in this thread. It would be nice if we start to be more judicious in our use of quoted text.
That post is a perfect example of how not to use quotes. It is much better to only include in the quoted text, the portions of the post that are being referred to, instead of quoting the entire previous post.
I don't intend to single out a particular individual. The reason I decided to mention this is, that it is a frequent occurrence in this thread. It would be nice if we start to be more judicious in our use of quoted text.
LightningRods
1 MW
Making a chain guide for the chainwheels will be a lot easier with one chainwheel. Is anyone really finding that they need the small low speed chainwheel? This kit should be a mountain goat in low gear of high range. Having just one front chainwheel would make everything so much simpler and more bulletproof.
I'm not crazy about the idea of flipping the chainwheel bolts around. It's a much better idea to keep the chain on the chainwheel. I'd also like to avoid guides that rub the chain. Noise, power loss, it shouldn't be necessary. They should be positioned with just enough clearance to keep the chain from having room to escape.
I'm not crazy about the idea of flipping the chainwheel bolts around. It's a much better idea to keep the chain on the chainwheel. I'd also like to avoid guides that rub the chain. Noise, power loss, it shouldn't be necessary. They should be positioned with just enough clearance to keep the chain from having room to escape.
givitago
1 W
LightningRods said:
I like the dual chainring for a couple of reasons:
1) if my battery runs out or I have mechanical issues, I really appreciate the lower gearing
2) it actually is useful on really steep sections as with my lower power setup, the reduction is helpful
3) if the chain falls off the bigger ring, there is no issue. I am always in high gear for fast bumpy sections where chain drop is an issue.
A derailleur works well as a chain guide. I haven't had issues after properly adjusting mine in this setup, and in my last setup with a single chainring, it worked well as a chainguide without the shifter.
I think those bottom guides might help with chain slap, but you need something on the top to deal with dropped chains.
