Lithium Batteries Shipping Rules Discussions

OneWayTraffic said:
Rassy said:
GTA1 wrote:
$50,000 is a pretty petty fine for the risks irresponsible behavior poses.

Perhaps the penalty need to be upped to lifetime bans from air travel (aka being on the "no fly" list, and fines of $1m per infraction, and / or lifetime imprisonment.

Bringing potentially dangerous cargo on board should be no less an offense than bringing firearms, mercury, or explosives on board an aircraft.
Guys, before you jump all over GTA1, remember he is just egging us on. He's the one that jumped on this forum recently and began extolling SLA, including SLA's future "improvements". He doesn't even understand the differences in various Lithium chemistries. From here on out I plan to just ignore this troll and keep my fingers crossed that the nice light LiFePO4 that I've enjoyed for the last year and a half don't explode and burn. :D

He may be a troll, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

Air travel is relatively safe because even small risks are systematically hunted down and eliminated. I wouldn't want to be on the same plane as someone elses home built custom made LiPo pack. And if someone smuggles a dangerous pack on a plane, in contravention of the rules, then they deserve what's coming to them. The problem for us is that not all Lithium chemistries are alike.

It's a pity that the baby is being thrown out with the bathwater here, but what is to be done? It's not enough to simply say that LiFePO4 is safe, it has to be proven. And then there's the possibility that future LiFePO4 based packs will be more dangerous than currently.

I'd be in the "get the cells certified, and ship them for local assemby" camp myself, which should keep most hobbyists happy, and let bigger companies get their packs certified.

In the meantime there should be some lobbying for more flexibility in approving packs built from safe cells.




I am sure that the FAA will give LiFePO4 a very fair and reasonable evaluation, as with other technologies like LiPo.

Chances are, the evaluation will result in far more stringent, severe, and tough regulations not only for air transport, but also for surface transport of these devices.

Plus the requirement for all manufacturers to be licensed, cells and packs to be individually certified as being in compliant with regulations and proven to be safe before it is permitted on common carriers.

Keep up the irresponsible behavior that keeps cropping up on here... and wait for the first incident to happen.... and it will likely result in a total ban.
 
Here are pictures of what happened to the plane after an on-board fire:

http://upsfire.com/philfire.htm

While Lithium batteries were not conclusively found to be the originating source / accelerant, the final FAA report states:


Since August 2006, the CPSC, in cooperation with Dell, Apple, Lenovo, and
IBM, has recalled more than 9 million laptops containing secondary lithium batteries,
which were prompted by reports of batteries overheating, resulting in two minor injuries
and several cases of property damage. The recall warned consumers of the potential
for the batteries to overheat in laptop computers and the possible fire hazard to their
users. Further, the CSPC has issued five additional recalls for other products containing
secondary lithium batteries. During the Safety Board’s public hearing, the CPSC predicted
that more incidents and recalls would occur if the deficiencies with the secondary lithium
batteries were not addressed.






1.18.6.2 Recent Lithium Battery-Related Safety Alerts
On March 22, 2007, PHMSA issued Safety Advisory 07-02, “Transportation of
Batteries and Battery-Powered Devices by Airline Passengers and Crew Members,” to
“inform the traveling public and airline employees about the importance of properly
packing and handling batteries and battery-powered devices when they are carried
aboard aircraft.” The advisory suggested measures for complying with regulations and
minimizing transportation risks associated with batteries and battery-powered devices.
Concurrently, ALPA issued Safety Alert 2007-03, “Responding to In Flight Passenger
Electronic Equipment Fires,” to “educate its members as to the characteristics of a fire
involving a portable electronic device.”
On August 3, 2007, the FAA issued Information for Operators (InFO) 07016,
“PHMSA Guidance on the Carriage of Batteries and Battery-Powered Devices,” because
it continued to receive reports of cabin smoke or fire suspected to have originated from
batteries or battery‑powered devices carried in the cabin.66 The InFO provided the guidance
contained in PHMSA Safety Advisory 07-02. The InFO reminded operators to be aware
of the risks associated with using primary and secondary batteries and battery-powered
devices in the passenger cabin and readdressed the availability of guidance for the safe
transport of batteries and battery‑powered devices on board aircraft.

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2007/aar0707.pdf


Particularly of concern is this finding:

A 2006 Safety Board review of the reported battery incident data for the previous
10 years showed an increase in aviation incidents involving both secondary and primary
lithium batteries. Specifically, from February 2001 to February 2006, secondary lithium
batteries were involved in four aviation incidents compared to the one incident involving
secondary lithium batteries in the previous 5-year period. Data from February 2006 to
July 2007 showed that the number of incidents (nine) involving secondary lithium batteries
was nearly double that of the previous 10 years. Similarly, primary lithium batteries
were involved in three incidents from February 1996 to 2001, four in the following 5-year
period, and six from February 2006 to July 2007. A review of FAA records confirmed these
statistics.


While data beyond 2006 is not immediately available, my understanding is that the trend line of incidents involving batteries, both primary and secondary, are increasing.

In the case of OEM Laptop batteries made by major manufacturers like Sony and marketed as OEM battery packs by Dell, HP, etc. these batteries are at least, potentially recallable.

However, large numbers of Lithium batteries (of all chemistries) are now being made by firms in China and used to either build new battery packs, or rebuild existing battery packs.

Furthermore, many of the higher power battery packs are made by manufacturers or distributions with little concern for detailed record keeping, incident reporting, and proven safety systems.

While hobbyists should not be singled out, it is self evident that many hobbyists, who field devices from robots, model aircraft, cars, electric bicycles, scooters, etc., are transporting these devices with little awareness or concern as to their safety.

At the present time, luck has been on the side of the transportation industry that there have only been a few serious incidents. But with the millions of these batteries now in circulation on a daily basis, it is nearly inevitable that it is a matter of time before a failing battery pack cause a highly publicized incident that will cost lives and property.


If the electric vehicle community have any sense of legal, moral and social responsibility, they will be at the forefront of making this technology safer, rather than to fight or attempt to circumvent regulations currently in place.

Although it could not be determined whether lithium batteries played a role in
the UPS cargo fire, public hearing testimony and the continued occurrence of incidents
involving these batteries on board airplanes suggest the need for greater attention to the
risks posed by transporting these batteries on commercial aircraft. A review of FAA and
CPSC records shows that the number of both secondary and primary lithium batteryrelated
incidents (many of which involved laptop computer fires that resulted from either
internal or external short-circuiting of the secondary lithium batteries) has increased
consistently over the years.75 Since February 2006, the CPSC has recalled more than
9 million laptops containing secondary lithium batteries and has issued additional recalls
for other products containing secondary lithium batteries. During the Safety Board’s
public hearing, the CPSC predicted that more incidents and recalls would occur if the
deficiencies were not addressed. Further, the increasing popularity of portable electronic
devices suggests that lithium battery-related incidents, particularly those involving
secondary lithium batteries, will continue to increase. The Safety Board concludes that
testing and incident data indicate that lithium batteries can pose a fire hazard.



Explain to me, any of you, how many of the manufacturers you are dealing with, honestly, fairly, and financially, are able to deal with a battery recall ?

My guess: NONE.



For those who think they can sneak Lithium batteries on board.... here is a scary point:



Because many incidents involving lithium batteries are exempt from reporting
requirements, the data regarding such incidents are incomplete, which has prevented
a thorough assessment of the causes of these failures and the risks associated with
transporting lithium batteries.


This hole was just recently plugged:



Require commercial cargo and passenger operators to report to the Pipeline and
Hazardous Materials Safety Administration all incidents involving primary and
secondary lithium batteries, including those contained in or packed with equipment, that
occur either on board or during loading or unloading operations and retain the failed
items for evaluation purposes. (A-07-107); Current classification: Open—Acceptable
Response
Analyze the causes of all thermal failures and fires involving secondary and primary
lithium batteries and, based on this analysis, take appropriate action to mitigate any risks
determined to be posed by transporting secondary and primary lithium batteries,
including those contained in or packed with equipment, on board cargo and passenger
aircraft as cargo; checked baggage; or carry-on items. (A-07-108); Current classification:
Open—Acceptable Response
Eliminate regulatory exemptions for the packaging, marking, and labeling of cargo
shipments of small secondary lithium batteries (no more than 8 grams equivalent lithium
content) until the analysis of the failures and the implementation of risk-based
requirements asked for in Safety Recommendation A-07-108 are completed. (A-07-109);
Current classification: Open—Acceptable Response

http://www.ntsb.gov/speeches/hersman/testimony_hersman_090514.pdf
 
nutsandvolts said:
But we already know you think we should all use lead acid, so we don't expect any different argument from you.


Wait!

Show me some proof that I ever said "we should all use lead acid".

Unless it is your intent to defraud readers by claiming I said things I never said.

Fraud is a rather poor means to win an "argument" in public.

IMHO, transport of any high power capacity storage device, broadly stated, whose safety (e.g. its state of discharge) cannot be guaranteed, should be seriously curtailed, though not necessarily banned from air transport without stringent regulation.

The definition of high capacity energy storage device shall include, but are not limited to: flywheel energy storage systems, compressed air energy storage, mechanical devices (springs or torsion bars or such devices), larger (more than 10ah) batteries of any chemistry, etc.
 
GTA1 said:
nutsandvolts said:
But we already know you think we should all use lead acid, so we don't expect any different argument from you.

Wait!

Show me some proof that I ever said "we should all use lead acid".

Unless it is your intent to defraud readers by claiming I said things I never said.

Fraud is a rather poor means to win an "argument" in public.

He said you think we should all use lead. He didn't quote you, and certainly didn't misquote you. His argument is pretty well supported by your repeatedly spouting disinformation and half-truths about lithium while at the same time promoting lead:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9482&hilit=lead&start=45#p164689

As if it matters either way, no sense being a fanboy about any particular technology. Use the right tool for the job. Anything else is just stupid.
 
nutsandvolts said:
How do you suppose the gazillion laptop and cell phone batteries are being transported? It's a massive market, shipping will not stop, no way is that going to happen. What about the thousands of other hazardous materials? They are still being transported. They are going on cargo planes not passenger planes or ships or trucks.


By and large, the market for laptop and cell phone batteries are made to stringent specifications by OEMs like Samsung, HP, who put their name on the product and assume liabilities for any problems.

Furthermore, the CPSC, and the manufacturers themselves, will undertake recalls (both voluntary and mandatory) when even minute numbers of battery packs fail --- well below one per ten thousand.

Contrast this with Lithium battery pack makers for e bikes and vehicles.

Can you honestly say all but the very best and biggest vendors have the financial capacity to absorb the cost of a recall?

Can you say that a chinese vendor that sells to mom and pop wholesalers outside of China will have the financial capacity, let alone the safety concerns and awareness?

Given the potential kind of abuses hobbyists (which include me - I use Lipo for my aircraft) put battery packs to, can anyone assume the responsibility?

It will probably take a rash of fires started by electrical failures on e Vehicles stored in garages or in homes before this problem is taken seriously.

Chances are, that will have to happen, dealing the entire e Vehicle business a serious setback, before safety awareness and fail safes works its way into "home built" and "manufactured vehicles.

You would not be so careless if it was your home that got set on fire by a short circuit in your e Vehicle.
 
julesa said:
GTA1 said:
nutsandvolts said:
But we already know you think we should all use lead acid, so we don't expect any different argument from you.

Wait!

Show me some proof that I ever said "we should all use lead acid".

Unless it is your intent to defraud readers by claiming I said things I never said.

Fraud is a rather poor means to win an "argument" in public.

He said you think we should all use lead. He didn't quote you, and certainly didn't misquote you. His argument is pretty well supported by your repeatedly spouting disinformation and half-truths about lithium while at the same time promoting lead:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9482&hilit=lead&start=45#p164689

As if it matters either way, no sense being a fanboy about any particular technology. Use the right tool for the job. Anything else is just stupid.


I never said "we should all use lead" and it is not supported by the link.

Lead and Lithium have different characteristics. I am in favor of lead-acid for my applications. What you choose is your problem.
 
I'll repeat my question to the group: Does anyone think a pack of unconnected cells meet the DOT guidelines?

If so, why not make packs that get connected by the end users:
  • Small packs get controller/bms activated connections
    Large packs get connected manually using busbars or plugs
 

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Given the confusion between cells and batteries, which DOT seems to have taken great pains to maintain, I'd say one could reasonably assume that each hermetically sealed case is a battery, and that connections or lack thereof among separate batteries is not addressed in the shipping restrictions.
So any size pack with individual cells less than 300 WH would be permitted, interconnected or not, as long as it could not accidentally be turned "on".
 
dak664 said:
Given the confusion between cells and batteries, which DOT seems to have taken great pains to maintain, I'd say one could reasonably assume that each hermetically sealed case is a battery, and that connections or lack thereof among separate batteries is not addressed in the shipping restrictions.
So any size pack with individual cells less than 300 WH would be permitted, interconnected or not, as long as it could not accidentally be turned "on".
Somebody in the system can make the distinction between discrete cells and batteries, or we wouldn't be having this discussion... cells are permitted and batteries (beyond a certain capacity) are not.

As GoGo has implied, a shipping container for cells can be converted to a battery pack at the destination. An intelligently designed container could convert easily or even electronically. If it can be shown that connections to the cells cannot occur without assembly or user intervention, for all intensive purposes the containers' contents are discrete cells.

This may be strategy of the LifeBatt modules that contain a few cells, but can be joined to create larger packs. Conversely, Valence seems to be shipping large lifepo4 packs:
ucharge_xp_familty.jpg

http://www.valence.com/products/battery_modules
https://na4.salesforce.com/sfc/play/index.jsp?oid=00D6000000076DF&d=05D600000004CKp
 
These companies have lots of funding and have most likely spent the money to have their packs certified in order to be shipped. That is why their packs will cost you three times as much than buying a DIY kit like you could get at my store.
 
A check with the PHMSA Regulations show that the $50,000 Fine is factually incorrect.


There are two ways Federal Officials can proceed against a violator.

Civil Violations can attract a maximum penality of $50,000 or $100,000 if it "results in death, serious illness or severe injury to any person, or substantial destruction of property."


However, if a person "willfully or recklessly" violates the law, as many of the posters on this blog clearly are demonstrating their intent to do so, then criminal penalties as follows apply:

For an individual up to $250,000 and five years imprisonment,
* For a corporation up to $500,000 and five years imprisonment,
* Criminal penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment for willful violation resulting in the release of a hazardous material that results in death or bodily injury. (49 U.S.C. § 5124).


Be rest assured that Federal Investigators will seize the violator's computer equipment and backup copies, seize archives and records of all blog /forum postings they can get a hold of, and stop at very little to convict someone stupid enough to "recklessly" cause to be transported large capacity lithium batteries that resulted in a serious incident.


Things said on this forum will make great fodder for a Federal Prosecutor.

Another option under the law is to prosecute not under Hazmat Regulations, but under anti-Terrorist regulations.... with much stiffer penalities than the above.


Have fun flying your e Bike and high capacity lithium battery around!








Civil Penalties
For knowingly violating regulations:

* A minimum penalty of $250 per violation, except training violations are subject to a $450 minimum penalty;
* A maximum assessment of $50,000 per violation per day, except $100,000 if violation results in death, serious illness or severe injury to any person, or substantial destruction of property.

Compliance Orders
The Secretary may issue an order requiring compliance with the Federal hazmat law, or an order, special permit or approval issued under law.

Penalty Assessment Criteria:

1. Nature and circumstances of violation,
2. Extent and gravity of violation,
3. Degree of respondent's culpability,
4. Respondent's history of prior violations,
5. Respondent's ability to pay,
6. Effect of penalty on respondent's ability to stay in business; and
7. Such other matters as justice may require (especially corrective actions).

Criminal Penalties

For willful or reckless violations:

* For an individual up to $250,000 and five years imprisonment,
* For a corporation up to $500,000 and five years imprisonment,
* Criminal penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment for willful violation resulting in the release of a hazardous material that results in death or bodily injury. (49 U.S.C. § 5124).

Civil Action in Federal Court
U.S. Attorney General may bring civil penalty action in U.S. District Court, which may result in an injunction, punitive damages, and assessment of civil penalties considering the same penalty amounts and factors as prescribed in an administrative case. (49 U.S.C. § 5122)


http://phmsa.dot.gov/portal/site/PHMSA/menuitem.ebdc7a8a7e39f2e55cf2031050248a0c/?vgnextoid=e4439f5cf6f57110VgnVCM1000009ed07898RCRD&vgnextchannel=a45a764e4da7e010VgnVCM1000008055a8c0RCRD&vgnextfmt=print#page5
 
GTA1 said:
A check with the PHMSA Regulations show that the $50,000 Fine is factually incorrect.


There are two ways Federal Officials can proceed against a violator.
blah blah blah deleted

GTA, you're conflating the other thread with this one. In the other thread, we are talking about risks to passengers on planes. In this thread, we are talking about shipping batteries from seller to buyer, which can be done (and is often done) by ground transport.

Please cool it with the hyperbole, it is not adding anything.
 
After re-reading the HMR, I concur with Dave Kois.

cycle9 said:
I did read the document, and the part highlighted in yellow seems to contradict the specific rules they laid out later in the document.
frodus said:
This from Dave Kois at EVComponents:
"No need to be concerned yet. This ruling did not adopt any new rules for the
transport of lithium batteries. If the person who posted the information would have
read the document he linked to he would have known this. It is highlighted in yellow
in several places in the document. The ruling does however make some changes to the
transportation of batteries in general, which are only voluntary for now but will be
implemented starting January 2010. I will follow up with the appropriate
authorities as well as our freight broker to determine what we will be required to
do. It does look like they are looking at drafting new rules specifically for
lithium batteries in the future and I will certainly be on top of any new
developments with this including the commenting."

Cycle9's comments about possible conflicts with information later in the document, may be due in part to the arrangement of information in the document: there are details later in the document (after Section II, part C) that are referential/review of amendments; some of which will not be adopted.

(Pg2200, Col2)
SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION:
I. Background
II. Overview
  • A. Amendments To Enhance the Safe
    Transportation of Batteries and Battery-
    Powered Devices
    B. Additional Amendments Adopted in
    This Final Rule
    C. Amendments Not Being Adopted in
    This Final Rule
III. Section-by-Section Review
IV. Regulatory Analyses and Notices
  • A. Statutory/Legal Authority for the Rulemaking
    B. Executive Order 12866 and DOT Regulatory Policies and Procedures
    C. Executive Order 13132
    D. Executive Order 13175
    E. Regulatory Flexibility Act, Executive Order 13272, and DOT Policies and Procedures
    F. Paperwork Reduction Act
    G. Regulatory Identifier Number (RIN)
    H. Unfunded Mandates Reform Act
    I. Environmental Assessment
    J. Privacy Act
    K. International Trade Analysis
 
cycle9 said:
GTA1 said:
A check with the PHMSA Regulations show that the $50,000 Fine is factually incorrect.


There are two ways Federal Officials can proceed against a violator.
blah blah blah deleted

GTA, you're conflating the other thread with this one. In the other thread, we are talking about risks to passengers on planes. In this thread, we are talking about shipping batteries from seller to buyer, which can be done (and is often done) by ground transport.

Please cool it with the hyperbole, it is not adding anything.


Thanks for your comments.

I am not conflating --- the regs and penalties I quoted above specifically have to do with transport of hazmats.

There is a superset of regs that apply to passenger air transport.

PHMSA is the government's "authority" on all goods transported.

See: http://phmsa.dot.gov/



FYI, I am not trying to be alarmist --- but I am saying that "we" as buyers, sellers, users of high capacity energy storage devices, need to come up with our own protocols, rules, and "best practices" and enforce it on members.

Otherwise, if we sit around and wait for an incident to happen, the government will slap on much more stringent regulations than we can devise now.

At this time, shipments of high capacity batteries are still small in volume, and very few incidents have happened.

That will not be the case if e Bikes / vehicles take off, and suddenly we are dealing with a few million on the road.

Let's get our safety act together sooner rather than later.

I for one, will, having due consideration of the risks, NEVER transport a non major factory made (i.e. Dell, HP) large battery pack by air regardless of how safe I think it is.

I will, use surface transport to ship these devices providing that they are in a discharged state (and hence, pose much lower hazards from things like a electrical short that may be no fault of the battery pack).
 
TylerDurden said:
Here is Part 49, CFR

The most relevant paragraphs are here:

A. Amendments To Enhance the Safe
Transportation of Batteries and Battery-
Powered Devices
The most noteworthy amendments in
this final rule address the transportation
of batteries and battery-powered
devices. Currently, batteries and batterypowered
devices are subject to a number
of requirements in the HMR. Most
importantly, the HMR restrict the
transportation of electrical devices,
including batteries and battery-powered
devices, that are likely to create sparks
or generate a dangerous amount of heat
that could cause fire, smoke, or
otherwise adversely affect the packaging
material or means of conveyance. These
batteries and battery-powered devices

are forbidden from transportation unless
packaged in a manner that prevents
such an occurrence (§ 173.21(c)).
Additionally, the following types of
batteries and devices powered by
batteries are subject to packaging and
hazard communication requirements:
• Wet (electric storage) batteries
(§ 173.159);
• Batteries containing sodium
(§ 173.189);
• Lithium cells and batteries
(§ 173.185);
• Solid potassium hydroxide batteries
(§ 173.213); and
• Battery-powered vehicles and
equipment (§ 173.220).
These requirements primarily address
the hazards posed by the chemicals
contained in the batteries as opposed to
the stored electrical energy. For
instance, wet cell batteries are required
to be packaged in a manner to prevent
leakage of the corrosive battery fluid in
the event of an accident. The electrical
hazard of the battery is addressed
through general requirements to prevent
short-circuiting, and the general
prohibition on transporting electrical
devices without proper protection and
packaging (§ 173.21). However, the HMR
currently prescribe no separate or
unique classification for identifying
materials that present a hazard in
transport based on their stored electrical
energy. This final rule addresses the
electrical hazards posed by batteries and
battery-powered devices by enhancing
packaging and hazard communication
requirements.
A growing number of incidents
involving batteries and battery-powered
devices transported by aircraft have
highlighted the transportation safety
risks. Additionally, several factors are
contributing to a heightened concern for
the future transport of these devices,
with particular attention to the risk
onboard aircraft, including: (1) The
increasing number of batteries and
battery-powered portable and handheld
devices (e.g., laptops, cellular phones,
etc.) carried by airline passengers and
otherwise transported in commerce; (2)
the development and use of batteries
with extended operating life and greater
stored energy; and (3) the increasing
number of counterfeit batteries in
distribution and use. If not adequately
protected from damage, short circuiting
or, for devices containing batteries,
inadvertent activation, batteries and
battery-powered devices of all types can
create or cause sparks or a dangerous
amount of heat for extended periods,
and in some cases, cause a fire. Cargo
fires are a significant hazard in all
modes of transportation and can have
particularly catastrophic results in air
transportation. If located aboard an
aircraft during flight, inadequately
protected batteries and battery-powered
devices can pose a significant threat to
the safety of people, property, and the
environment.



The regulations address both the dangers of stored energy being released, and the chemical hazards of different chemistries, plus the sheer proliferation of cells and devices carrying them, and particularly, counterfeit cells that basically are unregulated.


Overall, I would say the regs are very sensible, and e Vehicle enthusiasts would do well to go beyond them in ensuring the safety of high capacity battery packs we commonly use.
 
Recent advisory. Note: while addressed to recyclers, references are applicable generally.
"These requirements also apply to shipments of batteries from battery manufacturers, equipment manufacturers, distributors and retail
sales outlets."
View attachment 2009_Battery_Safety_Compliance_Advisory.pdf
 
Lessss said:
I wonder what lead acid battery compaty GTA runs or works for..or has a financial interest in..?



The CFR applies to ALL Batteries, regardless of chemistry.
 
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