Mob of bikers surround SUV and get run over in NYC
- Thread starter LSBW
- Start date
- Status
Architectonic
10 kW
The tl/dr version:
A motorcycle gang targets a rich Asian guy (driving with his family) to harrass and threaten for money. Gang member pulls in front of Asian guys expensive SUV and brakes abruptly while looking at the SUV behind.
The guy stops as several motorcycles stop in front of him. The car is surrounded by gang members.
The gang members start swinging at the car, slash one of his tyres, start to open the passenger door where his wife was, before he realised he is in serious danger and floors it, running over two gang members.
Several minutes later, the tyre fails and the gang members catch up and beat the guy to a pulp.
Photos shown on the following clearly show that the car was driving on its rim at the front right.
http://jalopnik.com/this-is-alexian-liens-range-rover-after-it-was-attacke-1441334110
A motorcycle gang targets a rich Asian guy (driving with his family) to harrass and threaten for money. Gang member pulls in front of Asian guys expensive SUV and brakes abruptly while looking at the SUV behind.
The guy stops as several motorcycles stop in front of him. The car is surrounded by gang members.
The gang members start swinging at the car, slash one of his tyres, start to open the passenger door where his wife was, before he realised he is in serious danger and floors it, running over two gang members.
Several minutes later, the tyre fails and the gang members catch up and beat the guy to a pulp.
Photos shown on the following clearly show that the car was driving on its rim at the front right.
http://jalopnik.com/this-is-alexian-liens-range-rover-after-it-was-attacke-1441334110
itchynackers
100 kW
Clearly the bikers were provoking. Clearly the suv was acting in fear/defense mode.
This all seemed to begin when a cyclist illegally changed lanes in front of the suv (on purpose). He didn't seem to "brake check", but certainly let off the throttle, thus slowing rapidly (for what reason?). Unfortunately, people are severely injured. In my book, the cyclists should be charged with the crimes. Similar to if a robber is killed committing a robbery. His accomplice would be charged with murder, not the victim.
This all seemed to begin when a cyclist illegally changed lanes in front of the suv (on purpose). He didn't seem to "brake check", but certainly let off the throttle, thus slowing rapidly (for what reason?). Unfortunately, people are severely injured. In my book, the cyclists should be charged with the crimes. Similar to if a robber is killed committing a robbery. His accomplice would be charged with murder, not the victim.
friendly1uk
1 MW
Eujangles said:friendly1uk said:Eujangles said:
Nothing wrong with stereotyping when looking for reason. It is circumstantial evidence, however weak.
1992 was barely yesterday. Telling us twice does not give it any more weight. It just makes you look younger
Yes there is something wrong with saying that because the motorcyclists were black they attacked an Asian. It's ignorant and offensive.
Also, your interpretation of my age is even less relevant to this discussion than racial profiling. Please don't try to undermine my point by singling out a small redundancy in my verbiage. It just makes you look pedantic
I am pedantic, I fault find for a living. Lets test my accuracy... how old are you? For that is my point, not your language. 22yo black guy close enough?
Most of the black guys I know are surprisingly racist. They bleat on about it the most, and do it the most. Your actually perpetuating racism now by making an issue from someone's fairly drawn stereotype. Maybe they shouldn't of said it. Best way to of told them this was to offer no feedback. To of made it a pointless comment. If nobody showed interest, they might of reconsidered the comments merit.
Anyway, Lets put this too bed. I don't really need your age or ethnicity confirming. It will only fuel a fire best left to dwindle.
back to the topic... i keep thinking about this, trying to see it from the bikers side. they claim lien was driving aggressively, forcing his way onto the highway, and rear ending one of them, after which he took off. they chased him down... and we know how it ended.
what we dont really know is how it started.
we have anecdotal evidence of the way the bikers rode, from their videos. many with no plates, frequently riding recklessly on shoulders and past other vehicles. also, after the altercation, they proceeded to engage in vigilantism, chasing down the SUV.
as for lien, we know he rear ended a bike. when surrounded by bikes, he took off, running at least one person over in the process. we know he was chased, and at some point, lost a tire. it isnt 100% clear how that happened. at some point, he got stuck in traffic, where he was severely beaten.
that is all the hard evidence we have, that im aware of.
its hard not to draw the conclusion that lien was the victim of a deliberate manouver, which escalated rapidly. its hard not to peg the bikers as a gang, or at least a mob, if they are mostly unorganized.
what we dont really know is how it started.
we have anecdotal evidence of the way the bikers rode, from their videos. many with no plates, frequently riding recklessly on shoulders and past other vehicles. also, after the altercation, they proceeded to engage in vigilantism, chasing down the SUV.
as for lien, we know he rear ended a bike. when surrounded by bikes, he took off, running at least one person over in the process. we know he was chased, and at some point, lost a tire. it isnt 100% clear how that happened. at some point, he got stuck in traffic, where he was severely beaten.
that is all the hard evidence we have, that im aware of.
its hard not to draw the conclusion that lien was the victim of a deliberate manouver, which escalated rapidly. its hard not to peg the bikers as a gang, or at least a mob, if they are mostly unorganized.
LSBW
100 W
This blogger has the video frame by frame and it's pretty clear that victim isn't a "victim"
http://www.mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/217012.php
http://www.mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/217012.php
arkmundi
10 MW
It'll play out in the courts. There are now 3 arrested bikers who'll need to defend themselves, and there may be more. And Edwin Mieses, who will prosecute for his injuries. It'll be interesting to see what testimony the 5 off-duty/undercover police officers will be allowed to give. There will of course be rigorous standards by the judges in these various cases as to what to allow into evidence, and who to allow as witness. There are really big state sanctioned gangs in play - the NYPD and the insurance companies, who by past performance are far from innocent, and will continue to portray the bikers as an organized gang. So, unfortunately for Mieses, its likely that he'll get run over again, in court.
MikeFairbanks
100 kW
If the bikers were in the right they would have called the police and given the license plate number, not chased him and beat him.
The SUV driver will win this case, hands down.
The SUV driver will win this case, hands down.
The "gang" is very careful about what they say, to avoid statements that can hurt them, and to also allow the opportunity to claim something that might help them. A quick review of their history shows that one of the things they do is organize group rides as a "show of force". It pleases them to have video of a large group that suddenly shows up at an unexpected location, and the overwhelmed police clearly avoid starting any "incident", which boosts the ego of the group and reinforces that...when they are massed, the police are "afraid" of them, giving them a small window of opportunity to quickly perform any one of several actions:
1) Instigate one or more "bump and pay" incidents, with dozens of gang members willing to act as witnesses. Insurance companies will often settle out of court. Notice the starting incident was NOT in front of a part of the city where there are lots of pedestrians as potential counter-witnesses.
2) This gang is known to video-record radical stunts that they perform on city streets, and then sell DVD copies as a source of income. One action that is necessary is to block off a street to avoid accidental car crashes with the stunting motorcycles. The "bump-and-pay" incident may have served a double-purpose of blocking this major highway (which happens to have very few side-streets), in order to video stunts.
Why would you risk having your expensive motorcycle wrecked performing stunts? Is is just for the fame, or the few bucks you might get from DVD sales?
On occasion, chunks of these groups are cordoned-off, and their motorcycles confiscated. Many prove to be stolen, and many do not have a license plate. Some were found to have an electric "plate-flipper". When riding in public, the plate is visible, but...when to think you want to do something illegal, you press a button and the plate flips-up to an unreadable angle.
Helmets, masks, goggles, gloves, no license plates, and riding on stolen motorcycles...if any stunt results in a crash (or a police-chase), the rider just walks away, and jumps onto the back of a friends motorcycle for a quick getaway...
When questioned, each rider said they were riding alone, and were not part of a "group"(yeah, right...).
edit: some riders may have indeed been riding along, and not part of this group, but this size of a motorcycle massing was not an accident of timing...it was planned.
1) Instigate one or more "bump and pay" incidents, with dozens of gang members willing to act as witnesses. Insurance companies will often settle out of court. Notice the starting incident was NOT in front of a part of the city where there are lots of pedestrians as potential counter-witnesses.
2) This gang is known to video-record radical stunts that they perform on city streets, and then sell DVD copies as a source of income. One action that is necessary is to block off a street to avoid accidental car crashes with the stunting motorcycles. The "bump-and-pay" incident may have served a double-purpose of blocking this major highway (which happens to have very few side-streets), in order to video stunts.
Why would you risk having your expensive motorcycle wrecked performing stunts? Is is just for the fame, or the few bucks you might get from DVD sales?
On occasion, chunks of these groups are cordoned-off, and their motorcycles confiscated. Many prove to be stolen, and many do not have a license plate. Some were found to have an electric "plate-flipper". When riding in public, the plate is visible, but...when to think you want to do something illegal, you press a button and the plate flips-up to an unreadable angle.
Helmets, masks, goggles, gloves, no license plates, and riding on stolen motorcycles...if any stunt results in a crash (or a police-chase), the rider just walks away, and jumps onto the back of a friends motorcycle for a quick getaway...
When questioned, each rider said they were riding alone, and were not part of a "group"(yeah, right...).
edit: some riders may have indeed been riding along, and not part of this group, but this size of a motorcycle massing was not an accident of timing...it was planned.
arkmundi
10 MW
Yes, Mieses and probably a lot of the riders that day had no idea what they were getting themselves into. For Mieses, they've already begun the effort to distance themselves. But they'll never extricate themselves completely, and depending on how this plays out in court, may walk away with millions or nothing but more pain & suffering.
LSBW
100 W
It's funny how his family keeps changing statements. First it was Mieses helping his "injured friend", apparently one he is never seen before.
That story fell apart pretty quickly, now it is something else:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Death-Threats-226654281.html?partner=nbcnews
Makes you wonder what they're gonna say in court.
That story fell apart pretty quickly, now it is something else:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Death-Threats-226654281.html?partner=nbcnews
Makes you wonder what they're gonna say in court.
i wont say mieses had it coming. he is a victim too, but not of lien. he is the victim of circumstance. i will give him the benefit of the doubt that he was unaware of the intent of the group (if he was, i dont think he would have got in front of the SUV). even with his record, he could have been a reformed man, but still enjoyed having fun. group rides are fun. so he went. unfortunately, the actions of the mob set off a chain of events leading to him being horribly injured. that is a terrible outcome. but i cannot fault lien for his actions. he didnt have many options.
in the end, i think we will find justice will not be served. mieses will get nothing, and the violent mob members will not get the punishment they deserve or the rehabilitation they need.
in the end, i think we will find justice will not be served. mieses will get nothing, and the violent mob members will not get the punishment they deserve or the rehabilitation they need.
Rassy
1 MW
arkmundi wrote:
We all understand that your sympathies lie with this lawless mob that was using the public highway as their own playground.
Others have mentioned that we don't know what happened just prior to where the video starts. I'm sure if the mob had had video of why the SUV driver (Mr. Lien) initially pissed them off they would have shown it, so it will just be up to the jury to either believe the mob or believe the Liens. IMHO it doesn't matter, even if the SUV driver sideswiped one of them, they had no right to try to detain him like that. Too bad he didn't injure more of them.
If it had been me, once the gloves were off, I would have lost it and used my SUV as a battering ram. Any bike right behind me would get a quick brake check. Beside me and I would swerve into them. Ahead of me and it's full on. Even at the end when stopped by the traffic jam, I would have stopped with enough room to move if approached be a menace intent on breaking my windows. There was probably room to go around in circles and take out a bunch more of them. Of course I would end up in jail if they didn't end up killing me, but they almost did that to him anyway.
So to me it seems the SUV driver wasn't very aggressive and didn't deserve to be harassed by the mob. I hope they get all the law can dish out. And just for the record I could care less about the injured biker. For whatever reasons he chose to put himself in the situation when he stepped in front of the SUV to block/dare it to move forward, let alone his decision to ride with the mob in the first place.
We all understand that your sympathies lie with this lawless mob that was using the public highway as their own playground.
Others have mentioned that we don't know what happened just prior to where the video starts. I'm sure if the mob had had video of why the SUV driver (Mr. Lien) initially pissed them off they would have shown it, so it will just be up to the jury to either believe the mob or believe the Liens. IMHO it doesn't matter, even if the SUV driver sideswiped one of them, they had no right to try to detain him like that. Too bad he didn't injure more of them.
If it had been me, once the gloves were off, I would have lost it and used my SUV as a battering ram. Any bike right behind me would get a quick brake check. Beside me and I would swerve into them. Ahead of me and it's full on. Even at the end when stopped by the traffic jam, I would have stopped with enough room to move if approached be a menace intent on breaking my windows. There was probably room to go around in circles and take out a bunch more of them. Of course I would end up in jail if they didn't end up killing me, but they almost did that to him anyway.
So to me it seems the SUV driver wasn't very aggressive and didn't deserve to be harassed by the mob. I hope they get all the law can dish out. And just for the record I could care less about the injured biker. For whatever reasons he chose to put himself in the situation when he stepped in front of the SUV to block/dare it to move forward, let alone his decision to ride with the mob in the first place.
This is retarded. Anyone who defends the bikers is an idiot. They were in the wrong and the funny thing is the helmet cam video from one of them that got posted proves it.
If I was in the SUV I would have been fearing for my life with a group like that pulling that shit. I would have got my fiancé to start filming everything she could and when they boxed him in well I would have run them over too, IM sorry I know its wrong but there is no way In hell I would have stuck around to see what they want to do, but as we all know the bikes are faster then the SUV so.... its would have been best to start shooting if I had a gun or smash as many of them as you can because waiting for the LAW to protect me and my family would not be an option. I'm not saying what my actions would be are the best but in the scenario of this case I feel its the only way. I don't believe in any of this shit. But Its not often I'm in this kind of problem either. On the other hand I have used my cars power to escape a couple times where other drivers were trying to kill me. I was lucky my car was faster then theirs... Because in Canada we can't carry a gun. It sucks there is people like this out there but it is what it is. And we have to make fast decisions to protect our self's sometimes they are not easy.
If I was in the SUV I would have been fearing for my life with a group like that pulling that shit. I would have got my fiancé to start filming everything she could and when they boxed him in well I would have run them over too, IM sorry I know its wrong but there is no way In hell I would have stuck around to see what they want to do, but as we all know the bikes are faster then the SUV so.... its would have been best to start shooting if I had a gun or smash as many of them as you can because waiting for the LAW to protect me and my family would not be an option. I'm not saying what my actions would be are the best but in the scenario of this case I feel its the only way. I don't believe in any of this shit. But Its not often I'm in this kind of problem either. On the other hand I have used my cars power to escape a couple times where other drivers were trying to kill me. I was lucky my car was faster then theirs... Because in Canada we can't carry a gun. It sucks there is people like this out there but it is what it is. And we have to make fast decisions to protect our self's sometimes they are not easy.
itchynackers
100 kW
I agree completely. The suv driver exercised incredible restraint. I'm fairly sure I couldn't have done that. Once the gloves were off (smashing windows, slashing tires) the only defense you have is offense. Only injuring one mosquito while holding a mosquito smasher in a swarm of mosquito's that are attacking you is incredible.
arkmundi
10 MW
NOOOO, if you had actually read anything I posted, so you're obviously someone who wants to perpetuate salacious speculation based on innuendo and lack of facts. My "sympathies" lie solely with Edwin Mieses and his family, and especially his two children, and the possibility of recompense for this tragedy in play. As well as the ES community, which through association is now part of a mob advocating violence on the roadways as a solution to perceived threats.Rassy said:
Rassy
1 MW
I love it when a total lack of logic leads to someone accusing me of wrongful speculation as they post wrongful speculation about me.
You have a right to your beliefs, and the rest of us have a right to ours.
The biker and his family have paid a big price for his actions. I just don't think Lien or his insurance company should pay for the biker's poor decisions.
MikeFairbanks
100 kW
Edwin Mieses needs to be the one paying, not the other way around. Due to his actions, a family man fleeing for his life had car damage and eventually was beaten.
I guess in any case you'll have people who desperately don't want to see the truth.
I guess in any case you'll have people who desperately don't want to see the truth.
Eujangles
100 W
@LSBW, I don't disagree with your observation, I disagree with the fallacy in logic your comment suggests (a black person attacking an Asian doesn't mean the black guy did it because he's black, or that he chose an Asian as a victim because he's Asian). There appears to be nothing racially motivated about the attack, either by the ethnicity of the mob or the victim. Maybe I've somehow misinterpreted your point, but you mention the race of the mob with no other context, and I don't see how it's relevant. I'm not shoving anything down your throat buddy...you should be prepared to defend an inflammatory comment on a discussion forum.
@friendly1uk, Not close on both counts, and as a fault finder, maybe you should check over your grammar and such before you post. "of" ≠ "have". Again, I don't see how my age or race is relevant. If you didn't want me to reply, you shouldn't have guessed.
@friendly1uk, Not close on both counts, and as a fault finder, maybe you should check over your grammar and such before you post. "of" ≠ "have". Again, I don't see how my age or race is relevant. If you didn't want me to reply, you shouldn't have guessed.
LSBW
100 W
LOL. Mods should lock this before it gets out of hand.
Eujangles, I'm from TO, try typing "jane and finch" in Google. Third search result is speaking for itself
Well, guess what is a main population there?
I'm not being racist, just pointing out FACTS.
Eujangles, I'm from TO, try typing "jane and finch" in Google. Third search result is speaking for itself
Well, guess what is a main population there?
I'm not being racist, just pointing out FACTS.
- Status