Motorino XPn Chinese ebike (scooter)

I got a nice 12 km ride at mostly high speed. I also have a low speed that is governed at 33 km/h on flat ground to obey the law :roll: But I switched to high speed often to see how the system behaved. First off, I don't know why I don't have regen anymore, it just doesn't work and I would like it to work to save on my brake pads. Second, after tweaking the controller, I have adequate torque, a low speed to obey the law and a high speed of sustained 60 km/h on flat ground. So I'm not part of the 40 mph club. After the ride the motor was at a surprising 181.7 degrees Fahrenheit on the windings and 122.3 on the end caps. The brake disks were still glowing red :lol: Well not quite but they were really hot. 225 pounds of scooter and 245 pounds of rider is a lot of weight to bring to a stop. Here's a few picks of the battery, it's in two parts because it is easier to place it in the battery compartment that way. And picks of the CA readings, I think my CA is a bit off, I don't think I went at that top speed but maybe I did going down the other side of a big hill I went up, and the wh per km seems low, like if this is accurate then I am really happy with this. I glanced at the Wh reading a couple times and saw 4700+ on acceleration..

84v_30ah_konion1.jpg

84v_30ah_konion2.jpg
 
It's the second time recharging this battery using a Cellpro 10S charger from Revolectrix and it seems to work so much better than the other chargers I used before. Although it doesn't charge at more than 10 amps, it is still fast enough for my needs. The part I like the most is how easy it is for this charger to perfectly balance each cell, and the top charge is bang on checking with a multimeter. Right now I can only charge 10S at a time but I have a second one coming so I'll be able to balance charge all 20 cells at the same time. One thing I should mention about this new battery I made is that I used 12 gauge pre tinned copper wire for the bus bars.
http://www.wesbellwireandcable.com/BareCopper/12awgTin.html
Compared to the copper strips I used before to make my smaller 14S16P battery, the pre-tinned wire was a lot easier to solder on the cells, and it seems to have a stronger hold on the cells. I also noticed a significant reduction in resistance from each cell (20P strings of 18650). With the copper strips I was seeing resistance of 3.2 mohm per cell. Now it is 2.5 mohm per cell. These are readings from the charger and I heard they are not accurate but they are still a good reference point.
 
I received my bulk charger from BMS Battery. I was a bit nervous about it since the feedback I read about BMS Battery is either very positive or very negative so I didn't know what to expect. It took a little more than a week to receive the charger and it looks good. It also does exactly what it is suppose to, charging my battery to 82V. It stops at 82.2V. Up to now I'm happy with it.

bmscharger1.jpg
 
Some rewiring done today. I replaced the 12 gauge phase wires for 10 gauge ones. I replaced the 12 gauge power wires for 6 gauge welding wires and I put fuses on the DC/DC converter wires. I shouldn't get hot wires anymore.

heavy_wiring1.jpg
 
The wind screen I installed last week is a bit small but it does the job. Although I feel I still have wind hitting my helmet, I feel much less wind on my torso and this should help me this winter. I'm hoping for very little snow like last year so I can ride everyday. Some pics of my baby as it stands right now. It still looks good after travelling 4950 kms. I have some LED lights that I'm contemplating for the rear brake light and the front and rear signals. I'm hoping the LEDs will be a lot brighter than the incandescents in broad daylight. I'm also thinking of putting a Xenon headlight bulb.

moped1_small.jpg

moped3_small.jpg

moped2_small.jpg
 
I'm having lots of fun with my moped but there's something that is really annoying when I switch to low speed. The thing jerks forward constantly like it can't find a constant speed. Is there something in the controller's settings maybe that I can change to fix this? The low speed is great for very long range but travelling with this constant jerking forward is very uncomfortable.

EDIT: The more I ride the more I feel like the jerking is present when there's a lot of fluff in the battery like when it's fresh off the charger. Once the fluff is gone then the jerking is hardly noticeable so I won't worry about it for now.

I am also thinking of replacing the original AC beaker with an emergency contactor and a fuse close to the battery. Would these be good for my 74V30Ah konion battery? Or maybe there's something better? The max current I've seen on the CA is 77Ah.
http://kellycontroller.com/emergency-contactor-kemg-125a-125a-continuous-p-1176.html
http://kellycontroller.com/ane-100a-fuse-p-115.html

Thanks
 
I got this from Lyen

regen2.jpg


And he told me to solder it here on my controller's board. The board is one of the new 318.

regen1.jpg


And after reprogramming the controller, I got my regen back.
yay2.gif


So after much reading on this modification, I found out that after modding the controller with this resistor, it now regenerates 1.2 times more than it did before. So when the program is set at 75V regen, it really does 90V. 75V X 1.2 = 90V. And when programming the LVC you have to multiply the low voltage you want by 0.84 to get the real LVC that needs to be programmed in the controller. I wanted my LVC at 66V for 20S so 66V X 0.84 = 55.44V. So I set the LVC in the controller to 55.5V. Hope this helps someone else. Thanks to everyone that helped.
 
So now that winter is coming on, are you ready to go 2WD?

electron_fr_wheel.jpg

Looks like this motor would bolt right on the frt. end of that model.

http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=284
 
I know the extra motor I have won't fit between the front forks. I rode my scooter all winter last year, from that experience, I know that if I get caught in a snow fall and it starts to get slippery, I definitely don't want traction on the front.
 
Got me somahdohz ELLE EEH DEEZ. I received them this morning. The rear brake and signals are the right ones but looks like I didn't order the right ones for the front signals. Here's a small vid of the difference between the two in daylight. Not much difference in brightness. Incandescent's brightness is spread all around while the LED's brightness is more localized to one spot. The LEDs seem extremely bright in the dark though but I don't have a movie for comparison. I'm keeping the LEDs on because they use a whole lot less power.

 
So I'm looking through the 18650V cells I have left. I got 67 good cells that could be used. I just need 13 more good cells and I could make a 4S20P pack to plug in series with my 20S20P pack I have in the moped and go 100V. I feel I should ask in the battery forum but I'll try here first. Other than having to charge this 4S pack separately, is there anything bad about running a 20S pack in series with a 4S pack?

EDIT: After thinking about it some more, I asked myself: ''Why in the heck do you want to fiddle with these tiny cells once more!?''
 
Still riding with the 20S20P konion pack and it's going well. One 20P string is a little out of balance with the rest at the end of a week of bulk charging so I keep an eye on it with Cell-Logs and take care of balancing all the 20 strings on the weekends. It is cold up here now and the battery is suffering from it of course. I insulated my garage and installed a natural gas garage heater so the battery ( and scooter) is nice and warm when I go off to work in the morning. But the scooter stays outside all day and at night when I come back home, I get a lot less top speed and a lot less torque. So I looked into heating this battery when the scooter sits outside at work. I bought a bee hive heater which runs on 12V and only consumes 12 watts and doesn't become hotter than 122 degrees. I could either try to get my employer to let me use an outlet and power the heater with a 12V charger or install a 12V 10Ah battery to power the heater.

I just need to find the time to install all that.
 
i'm still riding mine too (clodmaxx on the other forum) with the stock SLA's. it's below freezing here in MI, and i have the same observations as you regarding cold affecting batteries (more so because mine are SLA's). i'm lucky here at work - there's a heated loading dock with a spare power outlet that i use. but 5 minutes or so in the freezing cold negates the 7 hours in a warm garage. so far i'm committed to keep riding it (everyone at work calls me crazy) so long as there's no snow on the road.

let me know how the battery heater works. i have a 3s lipo battery i keep in my pocket for heated gloves...i know i can use it for a 12v battery heater (or just buy another lipo) as i don't want to splice into the existing 12v relay. i need as much power dedicated to the scoot as i can.
 
skingy said:
(everyone at work calls me crazy)
Click to expand...

I know that feeling, same thing here but this is my second winter so now they just assume I am crazy and don't even bother talking to me anymore :lol: It's a commitment I made and it's been paying off big time selling my car and riding this scooter to work for the last 18 months.

If we can keep the battery warm at all times, it should work out awesome because the motor and controller do so well in the cold. Nothing overheats. :)
 
mistercrash said:
If we can keep the battery warm at all times, it should work out awesome because the motor and controller do so well in the cold. Nothing overheats. :)
Click to expand...

i was looking at other 12v ways to keep the batteries warm. an electric blanket or a bunk warmer (targeted to big rig drivers - it's basically a heated mattress pad). both options have a thermostat to control the amount of heat, and would be nice and large to put under and around the batteries. but it just seems like too much trouble for what it's worth. you would have to plug it in about 10-15 minutes before you ride (longer if you want them really toasty) and just seems like too much work for my SLA's. my gains by doing all of that wouldn't be as large as for someone like you with your konion's.

a potential new job offer would hinder my ability to take it to work and back...i'd have to drive my Z as it's too far of a drive. if that becomes the case, i may look into a 2013 Zero S next spring/summer. gotta keep the commute electric!
 
With over 5700 kms on the counter, I needed to get new tires. So I got two 110/80 10'' Michelin S1 tires. I read great reviews on them. I didn't get the chance to try them yet, freezing rain is coming down today and the roads are covered with ice. Here's a couple pics. The Michelins are a bit wider than the 3.50''X10'' Kenda I had before and a tiny bit smaller in diameter. The circumference of the Michelins is only 30 mm less then the Kenda.

michelin2.jpg


michelin1.jpg


EDIT: Well it's now Dec.21 and a sunny day outside so I went for a ride and those Michelin tires are a tremendous improvement on the Kendas. Better grip and a much smoother and comfortable ride.
 
I forgot to update about the bee hive heater I ordered to heat my batteries. The thing is about as big as 4 packs of gum, it is crudely hand made with simple tools and doesn't generate any noticeable heat after 20 minutes on a 12V power source. I plugged it to 24V and barely got 120 degrees out of it. I am certain that this is not capable of heating a large battery when it's below freezing outside.
 
I put Michelins on my Honda Goldwing. They had 1/2 as many groves as those and the grove ended where yours turns and follows the circumference of the tire. Several of us had them and were all scared to death of what was going to happen when we hit heavy rain. NOTHING, to our surprise they held on very well, except when you crossed over the paint.

mistercrash said:
With over 5700 kms on the counter, I needed to get new tires. So I got two 110/80 10'' Michelin S1 tires. I read great reviews on them. I didn't get the chance to try them yet, freezing rain is coming down today and the roads are covered with ice. Here's a couple pics. The Michelins are a bit wider than the 3.50''X10'' Kenda I had before and a tiny bit smaller in diameter. The circumference of the Michelins is only 30 mm less then the Kenda.

EDIT: Well it's now Dec.21 and a sunny day outside so I went for a ride and those Michelin tires are a tremendous improvement on the Kendas. Better grip and a much smoother and comfortable ride.
Click to expand...
 
I noticed that they do very well on wet pavement even when it's close to freezing. Must be in the compound more than the grooves. But I don't go as fast as a Goldwing :D My other brand of tires were also not very good on the painted lines or manhole covers when it's raining. Any tire doesn't do well on those when it's wet.

So I noticed that my 20S20P konion battery has a couple cells that are draining a bit faster than the others lately, I'm hoping that it's just because the scooter has been in freezing cold for 5 hours and I ride it back home from work. I've been keeping a close eye on them and topping them off the same as the others with an extra charger.
I received a couple of those

brksd25m-r_connector_end_large.jpg


And one of this

ext25-6.jpg


Like I mentioned in the battery forum and I plan on cleaning up the spaghetti mess I presently have under the seat. I want to bring it down to just two 6 mm connectors like the ones pictured below and that single DB25 cable for the balancing wires.

258000002(1).gif
 
I started cleaning up my charging set up for the 20S20P konion battery. I started on the charging end and maybe next weekend I'll find time to clean up the scooter end. So the battery will be split into two 10S packs instead of four 5S packs. That means there will only be one connector for each of the two Hyperion chargers and just one DB25 connector for all the balance wires.

one_cable_charging1.jpg


The two main connectors from the battery will need a series connector after the charging is done which I made already.

one_cable_charging2.jpg
 
If anyone is riding an e-scooter like me in Ontario, you know how important it is to keep the pedals on. The problem is that those pedals can catch on the pavement when cornering and they can send you flying in the ditch. The trick is to keep them horizontal, some do it by keeping their feet on them. I personaly prefer to keep my feet inside the scooter especially this time of year. To keep the pedals horizontal and still keep them on and functional to obey the law, I put a couple hose clamps underneath the scooter going around the pedal shaft and the swing arm's cross member. I tightened the clamps as tight as I could and now the pedals stay firmly horizontal but are still functional. They are difficult to pedal but they work. Only one hose clamp is shown in the pic but I put two of them.

pedals_hose_clamps1.jpg
 
Some problems with the motor this week during a very rainy day where there was a lot of puddles of water and melting snow (slush) on the road. The motor started making that terrible sound you get when two wires are shorting and it was locking up. I opened up the motor and other than some dielectric urathane coating that was worn off somehow, there was no damaged wires, no damage to the stator or rotor. I will re-apply some urathane and when it's dry, I will re-assemble the motor and try it in the vise. My guess is that the short occured in the the hall sensor wire plug, I noticed that the plug is kinda worn and it wasn't sealed from water. Running with the spare motor I had for now until I figure this out.
Now this motor is the original one of the scooter, I had to repair it back in August 2012 and that is when I put some holes in the end caps for ventilation and the urethane coating inside. It looks to me like the Urethane is not enough to protect the motor in wet weather, specially up here in Canada if you run all winter on streets covered with salt to melt the ice.

So I'm thinking that I should look into a stronger motor that will not need the ventilation holes and can be sealed as best as possible for winter riding. But what wattage should I be looking for?
Here's some specs of my scooter:
- 225 pound scooter
- 250 rider
- 500 watt scooter motor on 10'' tubeless wheel
- Lyen 18 FET controller (it needs a bit more grunt so I want to build up the traces and maybe a shunt mod?)
- 20S20P (74V 30Ah) Sony Konion battery made with tool packs from DocBass
- The cycle Analyst shows amp draw of close to 90 amps max and 30 to 45 amps continuous, depending on wind, slight hill etc.
- I see readings in excess of 4800 watts accelerating from a dead stop and 2000 to 3500 watts while riding, again depending on hills and winds

So, to have a motor that can be sealed and will not give me overheating problems, should I be looking at something like a 2000 watt motor? Much like this one?
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...tric-scooter-motorcycle/109978_518457432.html

Or go higher with 4000 watts like this one?
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...gy-saving-type-NEW-TYPE/109978_518862507.html

Can the battery I have handle a bigger motor? I'm not looking at motors from Kelly Controls because they don't have hubs with tubeless rims.

EDIT: I finished putting the old motor back together late last night and it looks like it's working fine. I wrapped the hall sensor plug in heavy plastic film and sealed it with zip ties at each end and will see if that keeps the plug from getting wet. I'll have to get a better plug some day.
 
So I had the same problem with the motor again, it started doing this sound like wires are shorting but I just can't find anything wrong with the motor just by inspecting the wires. I installed a spare motor I have and it worked fine for a week and now it is doing the same thing as the other motor so the problem must be somewhere else. I hope someone reads this and has a few ideas of what to look for because I'm not sure where to start. The motors look just fine and there's no damage to the wires. Could it be the hall sensors? If yes, what could be damaging my hall sensors on two different motors? :?
My CA got a lot of water into it last week and started giving some pretty funky readings so I opened it and let it dry but now the buttons don't work :x Probably my fault but I'm wondering if a CA that is shorting inside could damage the motors. It's just an idea here because I unplugged the CA and the motors were doing the same sound.
 
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