liveforphysics said:
You guys waiting for a 'more government' solution will be sorely disappointed. If you review your history you will see each and every government has collapsed or is currently waiting to collapse.
Just as every human who ever lived is dead or waiting to die. Is there a good scientific term that refers to missing a non sequitur in a theory? Meanwhile, the biggest government trashers always seem to support the worst big government candidates and their 'more government' solutions, such as Obama and his Obamacare. Hmmm.
Arlo1 said:
Woah what rock have you been hiding under?
What? You were hoping to pick him when you were choosing sides? No peaceful living for YOU!
It's just that sort of trying to silence any truth you don't like that so poisons O Duce's administration. It's quite the Tyrannical hate speech that's being trumpeted as his State of the Union address, (You must be pleased) where the question 'Who is he trying to help?' has already been asked. With the answer of 100 Democratic Senatorial candidates and 435 Democratic Congressional candidates in the 2014 elections. Them and himself. That's all, he's not trying to help anyone else.
In the 1980's the Republicans won three presidential elections with candidates identified as "Left leaning." Cartoons depicted the more liberal Republicans running for presidential knocked down or pushed aside as Reagan leaned way over. H.W. Bush was always referred to as a liberal Republican. Deficit spending is liberal politics. In the 80's it was joked that the Libertarian party was pushed so far to the left they had to circle around behind and come out on the right side.
Funny thing is, it looks like they REALLY DID! Why do people keep calling the Libertarians "Right Wingers?" Where's the guy that's the big Ayn Rand fan around here? He should tell you that she's always identified as a "Classical Liberal." Essentially with textbook purity, no occasional message drift. People talked of her as such a libertine, she kept denying it and reminding she'd been married to the same man all those decades, etc. (It's considered okay for a liberal to be a faithful spouse.) If you know your political theory you know that Capitalism is liberal and Socialism is conservative. That Obama's strong arm/the few dictate to the many government is not just conservative, it's totalitarian. (Don't miss Obama's hour of hate on TV tonight.) Some Republican group had some chastisement of John McCain for "Not being conservative enough," but so much of what the Republicans push anymore is considered "Classical Liberalism." I get so tired of goofball rhetoric.
Some things can be accomplished open source. But true advances cost money, they'll only happen if there's an investment by those who gain a return on investment if they succeed. Period. There's already all sorts of open source transportation available that people can throw together cheap and save all sorts of energy and money, but it's not legal to drive it on the street in the U.S. The same people who tout GREEN also tout government regulation which prevents it.
liveforphysics said:
Yet the longest surviving human cultures don't require it (while also imposing the lowest ecological damage per capita), and without exception every government type has or will collapse (with the source for that being all human history).
Ummm, nope. Thousands of years ago, they had highly structured governments in these longest surviving human cultures. These societies were driven from their land by their own exploiting it to death. My ancestors who came to the U.S. from England lived alongside my ancestors who came to the U.S. from Saxony until the first used up their land and were forced to go SOMEWHERE. Hence the crossing to "Anglaland" and the beginning of Anglo Saxons. (Who are English only.) Only one example, there are oh so many. And these peoples were far less loving. Society got BETTER with amassing resources. The Indians were in the process of burning America to the ground dating back to before Columbus arrived, through the 19th century. The worst forest fires recorded in North America were started, apparently deliberately, by the American Indians. Who had a far larger role in nearly making the buffalo extinct than some would have you believe. The Indian tribes were at war with each other and killing themselves off, their population had been and continued to decline before and during contact with European settlers. Oh, this doesn't taste nearly so good as that pablum grade school history classes force feed and some so ignorantly keep spitting up again.
NOTHING backs up the fantasies some insist on deluding themselves with. You go to the Hindi speaking world and they tell you that the British raised their quality of life by stopping them from fighting with each other and giving them a single language to communicate with. That could have all been one country over there if they had just been capable of getting along with one another. The philosophy that Emerson and Thoreau were influenced by is what learned people there were saying they NEEDED to do, it was NOT what existed in that part of the world at the time. If you would LEARN history you would see it proves you wrong. (Start with some cultural anthropology classes at your local community college.)
flathill said:
We will evolve into two human species
A fork if you will
Human 1.0
Human 2.0
1.0 grunts
2.0 who can afford it
Excuse me, but I thought that happened around 3 centuries ago. If you mean there will be an end to the ability to advance from being a grunter, well, that too is how it used to be before we amassed resources. What's his name that turned the cottage industry of spinning into the mill industry of creating fabric and almost single handedly turning the English economy into an industrial powerhouse rose from the grunt level, something that had been historically unknown without mass killing and conquest. Under Ghengis Khan or any other major leader whose name you wouldn't recognize (But whose names I'd have fun spouting) if you had a better place in society it was because you killed and stole for it. That is the real history of human beings. As to the possibility of reverting to a world where you only get out of grunting if you can afford to, I think Obama's angry tirade tonight is going to thrill those grunters dumb enough still believe that raising the minimum wage doesn't make them poorer, even though the history of raising the minimum wage proves it DOES make them poorer.
So it's time to give up . . . .(I'll let you continue this. . . .)
should make our main effort to be to help all of our fellow humans.
