crossbreak
1 MW
No. Your are wrong, think again. Also i talked about the proto not the final product.Hillhater said:
Neematic - 20kW middrive bike
- Thread starter Allex
- Start date
Allex
100 MW
agniusm said:
Hm could it be mxus hub
I saw a couple of people asking if they will offer a Frame + Motor Kit,
and the answer from Neematic was, that they currently only plan to sell it as a complete bike :-(
Maybe we need to show them more interest from the community for a modular approach like the LMX.
Cheers, Ulli
and the answer from Neematic was, that they currently only plan to sell it as a complete bike :-(
Maybe we need to show them more interest from the community for a modular approach like the LMX.
Cheers, Ulli
macribs
10 MW
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 3,702
Allex said:agniusm said:
Hm could it be mxus hub
Does not look like mxus hub, looks more like those Revolt motors?
Enough with the teasing, let us know more please. Neematic do you hear me? Details please.
Man does this bike look good. Haven't had such cravings since a late night party after a Pink Floyd concert in the early 90's :wink:
Allex
100 MW
That black space looks to bulky, to bad that batteries are still so big...
macribs
10 MW
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 3,702
Allex said:
Well if it is a Revolt they could have to chosen to close the sidecovers due to water cooling.
I am sure if you order one, they will let you have any size battery you like. Even a small and light pack
Inside the battery box you could have room for a charger, or an inflatable tent
morati
10 kW
Man does this bike look good. Haven't had such cravings since a late night party after a Pink Floyd concert in the early 90's
PF-Division Bell.......LOL, I went to that one too.
Seriously, this thing is looking good! Happy they decided to go with quality parts.
PF-Division Bell.......LOL, I went to that one too.
Seriously, this thing is looking good! Happy they decided to go with quality parts.
Hello chaps,
I am currently working as an engineer at Neematic and therefore I can disclose some info for you. Linukas (your old chap) is the main idea generator at Neematic.
I was happy to read your discussion about the rear suspension of our bike. What crossbreak mentioned about reaction forces during acceleration and motor breaking is really relevant but it is not a fault. I would rather say it is a trade-off. When we were choosing rear suspension/transmission design, we thought about three cases - mounting motor in the frame (not on the suspension axle); mounting motor on the swing arm pivot point and react torque to theswing arm; and mounting motor on the swing arm pivot point and react torque to the frame. All these concepts have their advantages and disadvantages.
The first one (as it is on LMX P2) might give you less squat (suspension compression due to traction forces) if the chain goes close to the swing arm pivot point (when it goes on the chain slider). However, when the rear suspension is compressed and the chain lifts of the slider the chain force that compresses suspension also increases. This effect anlso increases with increased rear sprocket diameter.
The second concept gives the least influence of traction force on the suspension. The chain forces are reacted on the swing arm therefore they do not influence suspension. However, mounting motor on the swing arm increases the moment of inertia of the swing arm and also influences unsprung mass. If the motor is not large, then the inertia forces are negligible. However, 20kW motor is quite large and might give adverse effects on the suspension.
The third concept is what we are currently after. This concept gives some suspension compression on traction. The suspension compression due to traction force depends on the traction force but does not depend on the position of the swing arm (up or down). Also the sprung mass and sprung inertia is minimized. We tried this concept on our first pre-prototipe (one with relocated hub motor) and the outcome was satisfying. During testing we did not find any adverse effects that would make ride worse.
We have second concept in mind. With the current bike design we can easily react motor torque at the swing arm and see how it feels.
I am currently working as an engineer at Neematic and therefore I can disclose some info for you. Linukas (your old chap) is the main idea generator at Neematic.
I was happy to read your discussion about the rear suspension of our bike. What crossbreak mentioned about reaction forces during acceleration and motor breaking is really relevant but it is not a fault. I would rather say it is a trade-off. When we were choosing rear suspension/transmission design, we thought about three cases - mounting motor in the frame (not on the suspension axle); mounting motor on the swing arm pivot point and react torque to theswing arm; and mounting motor on the swing arm pivot point and react torque to the frame. All these concepts have their advantages and disadvantages.
The first one (as it is on LMX P2) might give you less squat (suspension compression due to traction forces) if the chain goes close to the swing arm pivot point (when it goes on the chain slider). However, when the rear suspension is compressed and the chain lifts of the slider the chain force that compresses suspension also increases. This effect anlso increases with increased rear sprocket diameter.
The second concept gives the least influence of traction force on the suspension. The chain forces are reacted on the swing arm therefore they do not influence suspension. However, mounting motor on the swing arm increases the moment of inertia of the swing arm and also influences unsprung mass. If the motor is not large, then the inertia forces are negligible. However, 20kW motor is quite large and might give adverse effects on the suspension.
The third concept is what we are currently after. This concept gives some suspension compression on traction. The suspension compression due to traction force depends on the traction force but does not depend on the position of the swing arm (up or down). Also the sprung mass and sprung inertia is minimized. We tried this concept on our first pre-prototipe (one with relocated hub motor) and the outcome was satisfying. During testing we did not find any adverse effects that would make ride worse.
We have second concept in mind. With the current bike design we can easily react motor torque at the swing arm and see how it feels.
Linukas
10 W
Hi there, nice to see discussion about our new project.
It is hard to answer correctly some of questions, as we testing some different stuff and do not know exactly what would be in final product yet, but here are some details:
- we do not use hub motor;
- we also do not use any of standard motors;
- we work with some different modified motors, so even I do not know which one will go to final product (yes, we will try rv160 too);
- for first prototypes battery will be ~2.3kwh and just after review of drivers we will decide if it will be same or smaller/bigger;
It is hard to answer correctly some of questions, as we testing some different stuff and do not know exactly what would be in final product yet, but here are some details:
- we do not use hub motor;
- we also do not use any of standard motors;
- we work with some different modified motors, so even I do not know which one will go to final product (yes, we will try rv160 too);
- for first prototypes battery will be ~2.3kwh and just after review of drivers we will decide if it will be same or smaller/bigger;
macribs
10 MW
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 3,702
@Linukas wow this time you have really gone all in. The Neematic looks absolutely stunning. I am sure it will be a fantastic offroad performer with its high power mid drive. Very excited to see you chosen water cooling. Can you give us an estimate on when you think bike will be revealed in all its glory?
And do you have a tentive date for when the Neematic will be for sale? I think this project is the most exciting e-bike ever.
And do you have a tentive date for when the Neematic will be for sale? I think this project is the most exciting e-bike ever.
Domas, thanks you for posting here. Your input can be very educational for everyone (even when someone disagrees with you!). Do not be discouraged, if you say the sky is blue, there will be an argument from someone here. I want to read anything you have to say.
When you think this frame is finished with it's design and development...please contact me. Maybe I can write about it in electricbike.com? if you like.
When you think this frame is finished with it's design and development...please contact me. Maybe I can write about it in electricbike.com? if you like.
nutnspecial
10 MW
It's a very exciting project and very nice to hear direct from developers, besides sharing speculation. Please let us know any further info you can (eta etc etc), and also if we can help with any specific input as a group.
Kudos, peace!
Kudos, peace!
spinningmagnets - thanks for encouragement! There is always grey area between facts and usually there is a lot of space to discuss things there. I am happy to see this high level discussion here. Maybe, we will have opportunity to improve Neematic from these discussions
We will be putting all updates, photos etc. in neematic.com , FB and instagram. I will speak to the guys to bring updates here also. We are very interested in your opinion, therefore please let us know your insights, suggestions or questions. We will try to answer as many questions as we can.
We will be putting all updates, photos etc. in neematic.com , FB and instagram. I will speak to the guys to bring updates here also. We are very interested in your opinion, therefore please let us know your insights, suggestions or questions. We will try to answer as many questions as we can.
Domas said:spinningmagnets - thanks for encouragement! There is always grey area between facts and usually there is a lot of space to discuss things there. I am happy to see this high level discussion here. Maybe, we will have opportunity to improve Neematic from these discussions
We will be putting all updates, photos etc. in neematic.com , FB and instagram. I will speak to the guys to bring updates here also. We are very interested in your opinion, therefore please let us know your insights, suggestions or questions. We will try to answer as many questions as we can.
Welcome Domas.
The explanation of swingarm behavior seems spot on to me, which one to you think would give the best grip, accelerating on dirt?
And in the suggestions category, could i just say that the rear sprocket in the top pic from agniusm last page has massively raised stress points concentrated around the bolt holes, no doubt software would pick it up, prolly a test one though and not meant for anything like 20kw, and by the way do you mean measured at the battery or the tyre?
thanks.
agniusm
1 MW
Awesomeness
izeman
1 GW
I WANT ONE .... bike pr0n at it's finest NICE!!
NICE!!
ridethelightning
1 MW
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2013
- Messages
- 2,010
subscribed
i think the battery box would look a lot better if it was built to hug the rest of the frame more, and have more space inside thatway too. could be larger/ wider coming towards the front wheel too.
i think the battery box would look a lot better if it was built to hug the rest of the frame more, and have more space inside thatway too. could be larger/ wider coming towards the front wheel too.
toolman2 said:Domas said:spinningmagnets - thanks for encouragement! There is always grey area between facts and usually there is a lot of space to discuss things there. I am happy to see this high level discussion here. Maybe, we will have opportunity to improve Neematic from these discussions
We will be putting all updates, photos etc. in neematic.com , FB and instagram. I will speak to the guys to bring updates here also. We are very interested in your opinion, therefore please let us know your insights, suggestions or questions. We will try to answer as many questions as we can.
Welcome Domas.
The explanation of swingarm behavior seems spot on to me, which one to you think would give the best grip, accelerating on dirt?
And in the suggestions category, could i just say that the rear sprocket in the top pic from agniusm last page has massively raised stress points concentrated around the bolt holes, no doubt software would pick it up, prolly a test one though and not meant for anything like 20kw, and by the way do you mean measured at the battery or the tyre?
thanks.
Regarding swing arm, I cannot wait until we do proper testing. It is hard to say which design will work best. If you check the suspension design of other off-road, rally raid cars or motorcycles it is possible to spot some trends. Usually, unsprung masses are kept low because of high accelerations going over rough terrain. Usually they have some anti-squat for rear suspension, but not too much. With our design we wanted to give rear suspension more anti-squat than they use in offroad motorcycles. Extra anti-squat reduces reaction forces riding over rough terrain because of swing arm angle. Also it allows to use softer springs because suspension squats less on acceleration. We will see how it works after we perform proper testing.
Regarding rear wheel and sprocket. That is true, streses there are high. Thanks for feedback. We wanted to use rear hub from dowhill bikes, because it allows us to use rear bicycle wheel. On 20kW version this might need to be changed.
20kW is electrical power (motor, controller, batteries), not tyre yet
litespeed
100 kW
Super cool.
Tom
Tom
macribs
10 MW
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 3,702
@Team Neematic is there any public release day sat? I mean when will you present the bike in all its glory for the public and list the specs?
Have you sat a date for when this bike will be available to purchase? Are you going to market this year? Or will bike geometry, component sourcing, design choices and what not for sure make it hard for you to start selling this bike this year? A little more info on your web/face/insta would go a long way. With this little info it is almost impossible to make up the mind to trust your ideas to materialize into an actual buyable product, or to have a more skeptical approach not getting excited before the bike is designed, manufactured and ready to be bought , or turn into vaporware altogether.
You are upping the bare so much on this build both in terms of power, motor placement and quality parts I really hope you will make it into production, but I fear the bar is sat too high so you wither wont be able to prevail according to your own claims, or that you will have to make drastic changes to the specs to meet a price point people actual can afford to commit to. I mean the m55 e-bike is a nice bike. But not for regular people. A stealth Bomber is also nice, and could be have by most people if people prioritize the bike. I hope to see Neematic in the latter group. Still opting for quality parts.
Have you sat a date for when this bike will be available to purchase? Are you going to market this year? Or will bike geometry, component sourcing, design choices and what not for sure make it hard for you to start selling this bike this year? A little more info on your web/face/insta would go a long way. With this little info it is almost impossible to make up the mind to trust your ideas to materialize into an actual buyable product, or to have a more skeptical approach not getting excited before the bike is designed, manufactured and ready to be bought , or turn into vaporware altogether.
You are upping the bare so much on this build both in terms of power, motor placement and quality parts I really hope you will make it into production, but I fear the bar is sat too high so you wither wont be able to prevail according to your own claims, or that you will have to make drastic changes to the specs to meet a price point people actual can afford to commit to. I mean the m55 e-bike is a nice bike. But not for regular people. A stealth Bomber is also nice, and could be have by most people if people prioritize the bike. I hope to see Neematic in the latter group. Still opting for quality parts.
macribs
10 MW
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 3,702
I was making a stop at their facebook to see if there was any news or pics update. Then I discovered something I have not noticed before.
Just above and in front of the motor, kind of between motor and rear shock, there is a square box. Controller? Radiator for water cooling? As I browsed slowly over the pics at face I really can't see anywhere else they can fit a radiator without altering the design of the bike as it stands in those pics. Think we are seeing the final stage bike in these pics or is this still a rolling demo/prototype version that will be altered in many ways before bike is released?
Just above and in front of the motor, kind of between motor and rear shock, there is a square box. Controller? Radiator for water cooling? As I browsed slowly over the pics at face I really can't see anywhere else they can fit a radiator without altering the design of the bike as it stands in those pics. Think we are seeing the final stage bike in these pics or is this still a rolling demo/prototype version that will be altered in many ways before bike is released?
izeman
1 GW
black bike in front of a black screen? is that some kind of camouflage thing?
even though those pics look very pleasing to the eye and have a nice touch, i think they are hiding more than what they show.
even though those pics look very pleasing to the eye and have a nice touch, i think they are hiding more than what they show.
Routybouty
100 W
Radiator? Just run some coolant through the frame .
.
