New Bafang Crank-Drives

On observations, one thing i didn't expect was for the 46V 11aH battery to give such a useful range. I did a 59km ride around the river yesterday and used about 6aH (based in just getting down to 3 bars on the display after some Watt meter testing previous) worth. Mainly flat, but some small hills on either end and about 2/5 of the ride into a light headwind. I'm actually glad i didn't spend any more on a larger battery which would have been heavier, less convenient to mount, and for me not much more use on a day to day basis
Yeah..... I have only pushed my 11ah Battery 43kms on one charge, but i do have a few a few nasty hill climbs that beat up the efficient range I achieved on the flatter sections of my commute.

Sorry in advance for not putting this into a bike build post but I am amazed my small brain has navigated this far into this Blogging/forum/internet thingy without blowing up.
IMG_20141115_135329.jpg
Thought it was time for a bit of Bike Porn from sunny Melbourne. My whip :wink: is not the sexiest rig, I know. But it has all the meat and potatoes I require. Its a CELL bikes 29er hardtail. The CELL brand is pure coincidence and the company do not make battery cells. They do however make bang for buck packaged bikes. This bike is now $549 Aus dollars but I got it 6 months ago for $449. It was the cheapest hydraulic braked (Tektro HDC330 Hydraulic Disc, 160mm Rear 180mm Front- Entry level but can slow down my heavy beast downhill in the rain effortlessly) 29er with Shimano Acera 9sp Rear Derailleur (good entry level solid clicking-easy to tinker with).

I chose a 29er hardtail because easily cheaper than dual suspension but still had the very functional front suspension for my urban riding (bunny hopping gutters; shortcuts over dirttracks; compliant on the the poor numb hands; but still solid on the long paved bike tracks and roads.) Secondly, this 29er frame has the modern geometry that keeps the centre of gravity low and the fork slack/angle ensures a feeling of stability at higher speeds i.e the bike is not twitchy. At 40kph + I tend to lean into a racing/aero dynamic position for extended periods ...so the geometry on 29er XC modern racing frame is very suitable for coupling to a Bafang mid cranker. I watched Keplers bike build carefully 'cos he was a local guy and he was riding the same bike paths as me and still enjoyed the fitness associated with riding. But my budget was not allowing me to get a quality dual suspension. The bike, the battery and the Bafang came in at less than $1500 Aus dollars. Pretty much plug and play. The CELL bike mechanic installed the Bafang for me too, he said it was 'too easy' and he had never done it before and needed minimal prompting from my memory from youtube videos.
IMG_20141008_182528.jpg
Battery is slipped into a waterproof kayaking bag. I cut a small entry point into 'armpit' of the roll up sealing section to allow entry for the battery connection (cannot get wet in heavy downpour because armpit hole is tucked up into fold but can no longer be immersed under water). I then fabricated(smashed and bent) a piece of aluminium to act as a battery holder, using the bottle holder grommets for solid attachment. Then just oversized heavy duty load straps hold battery to frame. Still not happy with this arrangement but IT IS solid and easy to mount/dismount for charging. Will improve frame to lower battery even lower AND improve the securing system for better aesthetics. Its weird...people dont see battery, they say they think its another panier type bag located inside my frame.

I rode at first with stock bike knobby race tyres. The bike did not care about the fat tyres or the knobbies...it still flew. And the comfort from the fat tyre absorbing even the littlest bumps was a very plush ride! HOWEVER....when you are the fastest biker in the neighbourhood :lol: you tend to corner at inappropriate speeds and the knobbies lost their advantages and were unstable on paved surfaces. (oh...and I got flats twice in the first month...as you do on any bike). So I quickly moved to Kevlar slicks. Maxxis Gypsies are the current brand on bike because my LBS only had these when I desperately needed slicks. I have had excellent experience with Schwalbe Marathon Plus. But really it is up to the individual. The important thing is the higher rolling resistance and puncture proof experience to match your super human biking :) I can now carve up the road and bike trail surfaces with these tyres at full throttle and full confidence.


I have actually kept plastic cheap platform pedals (normally i ride clipless shimano spd). Why? you may ask! I fly into gradual corners at great speed. Normally you stop pedalling because accelerating through the appex of corners is for motor bikes not a push bike. I have eliminated the accelerator on my rig so I have the incredible urge to accelerate through all corners, which means i have to pedal. I actually get so low to the ground I sometimes scrape the pedal. Plastic will scrape off the plastic safely, not bite like metal. Probably just my quirky thing, but there it is.
Cheers all. Oh BTW. All this fun and I am greening my son's future to boot. :mrgreen:
 
CELL bikes 29er hardtail.

Is that the CELL Stromlo 1.0??

When she who must be obeyed eventually lets me spend money again i am thinking of upgrading to one of those.
The hydraulic disks interested me. They work well??

One review i read of these pointed out that they have the same frame and wheels as the more expensive 2.0 model and cheaper drive components. Which are the bits that wear out first anyway.

I'd be interested to hear if there is anything about it you really dont like though? Good to hear the Bafang goes on it ok. Is it 68 or 73mm BB?
 
Does anyone know if there is a relatively easy way to pickup a trigger off the BBS02/750 without taking appart the motor/controller ? My goal is to electronically "turn on" a USB power port (and inverter) when the BBS02 is turned on using the standard soft switches on the C691 display. The end-goal is to be able to charge a smartphone during use and GPS apps like MapMyRide, Strava, Moves, Human, etc, straight up eat the battery on this thing.

-=dave
 
tungsten2k said:
Does anyone know if there is a relatively easy way to pickup a trigger off the BBS02/750 without taking appart the motor/controller ? My goal is to electronically "turn on" a USB power port (and inverter) when the BBS02 is turned on using the standard soft switches on the C691 display. The end-goal is to be able to charge a smartphone during use and GPS apps like MapMyRide, Strava, Moves, Human, etc, straight up eat the battery on this thing.

-=dave

Pick up the 5 volts off the brake cutoff lead, if you are not using one of the brake levers just cut the wire off and you can have a nice neat plugable install.
 
Geebee said:
tungsten2k said:
Does anyone know if there is a relatively easy way to pickup a trigger off the BBS02/750 without taking appart the motor/controller ? My goal is to electronically "turn on" a USB power port (and inverter) when the BBS02 is turned on using the standard soft switches on the C691 display. The end-goal is to be able to charge a smartphone during use and GPS apps like MapMyRide, Strava, Moves, Human, etc, straight up eat the battery on this thing.

-=dave

Pick up the 5 volts off the brake cutoff lead, if you are not using one of the brake levers just cut the wire off and you can have a nice neat plugable install.
Sure it can provide any usable curren? I would at best expect some 2 digit mA comming out.
 
parabellum said:
Geebee said:
tungsten2k said:
Does anyone know if there is a relatively easy way to pickup a trigger off the BBS02/750 without taking appart the motor/controller ? My goal is to electronically "turn on" a USB power port (and inverter) when the BBS02 is turned on using the standard soft switches on the C691 display. The end-goal is to be able to charge a smartphone during use and GPS apps like MapMyRide, Strava, Moves, Human, etc, straight up eat the battery on this thing.

-=dave

Pick up the 5 volts off the brake cutoff lead, if you are not using one of the brake levers just cut the wire off and you can have a nice neat plugable install.
Sure it can provide any usable curren? I would at best expect some 2 digit mA comming out.

Tungsten2k is only after a trigger voltage to switch on the device, which would be fine.
It would not be suitable as a usb tap.
 
Geebee said:
Pick up the 5 volts off the brake cutoff lead

Perfect ! I though they were just switches. Through crafting some longer Google queries at site:endless-sphere.com, I finally found the breakdown:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=50104&start=2700#p909779

I guess I can disconnect the rear brake and re-route it back into the battery box so it's all tidy/weatherproof (since rear brake is pretty much redundant).

Thanks for the quick responses !

-=dave
 
tungsten2k said:
Geebee said:
Pick up the 5 volts off the brake cutoff lead

Perfect ! I though they were just switches. Through crafting some longer Google queries at site:endless-sphere.com, I finally found the breakdown:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=50104&start=2700#p909779

I guess I can disconnect the rear brake and re-route it back into the battery box so it's all tidy/weatherproof (since rear brake is pretty much redundant).

Thanks for the quick responses !

-=dave

You can always just parallel the 2 brake levers to the one connection as they are in parallel at the controller going of the signal.
Or maybe even neater cut or slit the rear brake lever cable and splice the wiring into the 5v and negative line and leave the brake wired as is, that way you get the signal out and brake switch and all the waterproof connectors still intact.

This is from another post I made.
"If you cut the lead off the provided hand brakes you will find a red (5v), black (0v) and blue wire (sensor output) , if you short blue and black it activates the brake switch cutting off the motor."
 
Geebee said:
[You can always just parallel the 2 brake levers to the one connection as they are in parallel at the controller going of the signal.
Or maybe even neater cut or slit the rear brake lever cable and splice the wiring into the 5v and negative line and leave the brake wired as is, that way you get the signal out and brake switch and all the waterproof connectors still intact.

Yeah, but I don't see how one could break the 5v+GND leads out of the brake cable and keep it weatherproof unless I slit the entire thing then heat shrink it back up around some hot-glue for sealing. Even then, it sounds like a potential problem when the water works its way into my blind splice. If I got a motor extension cable that had all the pins it would be doable, but the shipping for one of those cables is more than it's worth.

I'll route the rear brake cut-off cable back into the battery box then run to a 5v latch circuit feeding either this:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-DC-buck-Converter-LM2596HV-5V-60V-setp-down-to-1-25V-26V-20W-Power-Module/2001385950.html

Or this:

http://www.amazon.com/DROK-DC-DC-Synchronous-Converter-32-60V/dp/B00KKKMA4O/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=AFHAE9RJVUMB

Sealing the cable into the battery box at least has a fighting chance since I can monitor occasionally to make sure water isn't seeping into the battery box.

Thanks again for the tips !

-=dave
 
Self amalgamating tape is a good waterproofing method.

Also the other place you can pick up a switching trigger - though not as easy as that previously suggested - is the PL line ( http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=877576#p877576 ). It connects to the battery (full battery voltage!) when the display is switched on.
 
Is that the CELL Stromlo 1.0??

When she who must be obeyed eventually lets me spend money again i am thinking of upgrading to one of those.
The hydraulic disks interested me. They work well??

One review i read of these pointed out that they have the same frame and wheels as the more expensive 2.0 model and cheaper drive components. Which are the bits that wear out first anyway.

I'd be interested to hear if there is anything about it you really dont like though? Good to hear the Bafang goes on it ok. Is it 68 or 73mm BB?

Yep, she's the CELL stromlo 1.0. Your assessment of the components is correct too. I too have a 'she who must be obeyed' and she has already been patient with my stable of 4 bikes (two of them expensive). So ....to keep expenses down I figure I can upgrade on Brakes, derailleur any part once i have JUSTIFIED it by saving money over next few months. Hell, I have to buy a new battery in 18months or so, maybe sooner.
The hydraulic brakes are great, I read many reviews. and my Bike mechanic agrees- All hydraulic disc brakes work sensationally, but the higher end brakes might modulate better or be more durable or are capable of stopping a heavy teenager on a heavy downhill monster with triple crown forks. Regardless, the 'class' of hydraulic brakes is superb. Ever seen those mountain bike 'trial bikes'....where the guys stop motionless on top of a rock and bunny hop to another motionless position on a fence post???!!!! Well the mechanic rides those and he has hydraulic brakes- but not on the disc BUT ON THE RIM!!!
But I digress, the point is these entry level hydraulic brakes are great, but i am sure there are even better ones. BTW...no matter high much power i have at the crank 9 out of 9 setting, the hydraulic brake stops the bike without any threat of duress!

Things i don't like about Stromlo 1.0
Well they have the superwide handle bars, common on these 29ers to offer the rider better torque through the handle bar on single track switchbacks. But on my urban commutes I cannot easily lane split between cars or move freely in bike lanes shared with pedestrians. Will cut off 20mm each side when i get the 'round to it. :idea: Then more when I know what I really need.
Wish it had IGH stock but we can only dream
I attached my Bafang 750W to an old mountain bike 26" to test everything first. Worked fine. Great torque. But when coupled to the 700cc/29er wheels, the bike stretched its legs and became a cheetah. The higher seat height, the 29er wheel rolling smoother over smaller bumps on any terrain. Taller riders will love it. They say anyone over 5' 8". But shorter riders will also appreciate the dimensions if your size the frame right. IMHO.
The fork (how can I say this politely) is adequate. Definitely better than no fork but i was spoilt on my Giant Anthem that has a FOX evolution fork, that is still amongst the better forks out there ( it has remote lock out controller on the handle bar). Problem is when you upgrade a fork and buy it isolated from a complete bike package it is often mega expensive for the nicer forks. But hey! I bunny hop :pancake: over gutters and smash rutted single track and it does an acceptable job.

Oh...the BB is 68mm :)
 
tungsten2k said:
Does anyone know if there is a relatively easy way to pickup a trigger off the BBS02/750 without taking appart the motor/controller ? My goal is to electronically "turn on" a USB power port (and inverter) when the BBS02 is turned on using the standard soft switches on the C691 display. The end-goal is to be able to charge a smartphone during use and GPS apps like MapMyRide, Strava, Moves, Human, etc, straight up eat the battery on this thing.
I'm wondering why you want to "turn on a USB power port". If you want to, then a power switch on the battery provides a mechanism to do it without modifying the motor. The batteries from Em3Ev come with an off switch. I have one of these but I also use other batteries that are always on. I run a four port USB power supply on the bike and while I'm not sure what it draws when it is not powering any device I am confident it is low and haven't noticed the power drain over a few days with the battery connected. I run two handsets, one for human power and one for bike power and upload ride data from both. Other ports are for cameras and headlight.

It is good to finish a trip with a charged phone if possible even if it was not that way when you started so you want to charge whenever possible. On longer trips you are always parked for a while resting and the motor goes off after 10 minutes. It depends a bit on the phone model and the apps you are running but riding with the screen on, GPS apps, streaming data etc, you are consuming around the maximum USB charging power of 10 watts. On the Nexus 5 handset, the battery gradually runs down while charging during the ride but on the less powerful Xperia Active the handset will charge slowly during use.

The other problem is that the vibration in a ride is hell on micro USB ports and there is a high probability of the port becoming unreliable over time. Some handsets are better than others. I'm trialing QI charging to deal with this. It eliminates connecting a cable to the phone which avoids damage and is quicker to mount and remove the phone but current QI chargers halve the charge power to 5 watts.
 
In case anyone is interested:

EM3ev 14S 2A 58.8V fixed-voltage charger: 579g
image.jpg

EM3ev 14S 5A 53.2V/57.4V/58.8V 3-voltage charger: 806g
image.jpg

46T BBS0x chain ring and guard: 400g
image.jpg

42T BBS0x chain ring and guard: 303g


-=dave
 
Ken Taylor said:
I run a four port USB power supply on the bike and while I'm not sure what it draws when it is not powering any device I am confident it is low and haven't noticed the power drain over a few days with the battery connected. I run two handsets, one for human power and one for bike power and upload ride data from both. Other ports are for cameras and headlight.

What do the two handsets do? Are they both mounted on your handlebars??

I'd like to get USB power, did you use a wall wart or eBay regulator or ...
 
tungsten2k said:
42T BBS0x chain ring and guard: 303g


-=dave
Where did you get the 42 tooth chainwheel from please?
The only 42T I found was the Alcedoitalia one which is a bit too expensive for me.
 
EM3ev.com same source as his chargers.
 
The smallest ones on his website are 44T.
I would have got a 42 if he advertised them :(
 
KINNINVIEKID said:
The smallest ones on his website are 44T.
I would have got a 42 if he advertised them :(
You're right, that's weird. I didn't ask special it; ordered right off the site. His site also shows it as $10 but I paid $8 so the site has def' been changed. Hrmm. I think I'm going to go count the teeth on mine :shock:

-=dave
 
Ask Paul for what you need. If Bafang has them he has access.
 
tln said:
Ken Taylor said:
I run a four port USB power supply on the bike and while I'm not sure what it draws when it is not powering any device I am confident it is low and haven't noticed the power drain over a few days with the battery connected. I run two handsets, one for human power and one for bike power and upload ride data from both. Other ports are for cameras and headlight.
tln said:
What do the two handsets do?
Both handsets run IP bike always and often I run Spotify, Speedict or Google direction finding on a new route. While I wish there were two power channels, cycling apps only provide a single power channel, intended for human power. So, because I measure human power and bike power I've found the easiest way to do it is to run the app simultaneously on two handsets with one recording assist power and the other recording from the human power meter with all the other data channels common. I then upload them into separate accounts on Strava which provides lots of ways of reporting on the data. I previously uploaded all the data into one account but it stuffs up various statistics e.g. human fitness level analysis. I usually review rides with both accounts on the screen at the same time. Ipbike is a great cycling app and the developer has recently added some fields specific to electric bikes.

tln said:
Are they both mounted on your handlebars??
Yes. This is what it looks like.
16168464485_2ff7c096c9_b.jpg

It's a bit clunky but it is the best I've achieved so far and the instrumentation is comprehensive. The left handset is assist power and the right is human power. WattHours/KM and Mean Power while moving are the two economy measures and Watt Hours works like a fuel gauge. Displayed fields are configurable.
tln said:
I'd like to get USB power, did you use a wall wart or eBay regulator or ...
I use this one http://r.ebay.com/fdImaV . It is larger than others I've tried and I haven't tested it's maximum power output but others without USB connections overheated due to too much current draw in normal use. Heat output goes up with voltage drop and battery to 5 volts is a big drop. I found promised output currents could not be achieved without overheating at battery to 5 volt drops with most power supplies. This one has big heat sinks and even though I run it in a sealed plastic enclosure with various other electronics, it has worked OK thus far.

As well as potential damage to the USB port on the phone, I've found low quality cables fail quickly, probably due to vibration breaking the conductors in the cable. I use genuine USB cables that came with the phone for best results.
 
Ken Taylor said:
tln said:
I'd like to get USB power, did you use a wall wart or eBay regulator or ...
I use this one http://r.ebay.com/fdImaV . It is larger than others I've tried and I haven't tested it's maximum power output but others without USB connections overheated due to too much current draw in normal use. Heat output goes up with voltage drop and battery to 5 volts is a big drop. I found promised output currents could not be achieved without overheating at battery to 5 volt drops with most power supplies. This one has big heat sinks and even though I run it in a sealed plastic enclosure with various other electronics, it has worked OK thus far.

As well as potential damage to the USB port on the phone, I've found low quality cables fail quickly, probably due to vibration breaking the conductors in the cable. I use genuine USB cables that came with the phone for best results.

That's quite the setup :) Thanks for the info. Good to know about the heat especially.
I have a 48v battery, not a lot of choice above 40v.
 
tungsten2k said:
KINNINVIEKID said:
The smallest ones on his website are 44T.
I would have got a 42 if he advertised them :(
You're right, that's weird. I didn't ask special it; ordered right off the site. His site also shows it as $10 but I paid $8 so the site has def' been changed. Hrmm. I think I'm going to go count the teeth on mine :shock:

-=dave
Have you managed to count them yet?
 
13S Lipo diy packs = all the choice in the world at 48v :)
 
Back
Top