New build. Full carbon 29er weight weenie Super Commuter.

[Kepler]

Thanks Jay.

That motor is only temporary at the moment anyway. The plan is to fit a Scorpion motor although they aren't exactly subtle in their colouring either

I needed two hands to lift the Fighter over my head. This time its with one hand. Actually the bike weighs heaps, I am just incredibly strong

 

[Kepler]

Of that $3k, what is E parts and what is bike?

Personally, I'd love to see a Felt F5 with this setup. The bike comes in at under 8Kg in some configurations.


Cheers

About $2,500 just in the bike so far. The wheels alone are $1,100 as they are custom built with White Industries disc compatible mountain bike hubs into 700C rims. About $900 for the frame and fork then add the Magura Hydros, floating discs, Schlumpf bottom bracket, actually its getting up to $3,000 before electrics. Not the most economical way of doing things but I wanted something a bit unique.

Problem with a road bike is that the front derailleur is bottom pull with the cable going under the bottom bracket. This is one of the reasons why I went with 29er frame as they are designed to be top pull so underneath the bottom bracket is completely clean.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Problem with a road bike is that the front derailleur is bottom pull with the cable going under the bottom bracket. This is one of the reasons why I went with 29er frame as they are designed to be top pull so underneath the bottom bracket is completely clean.

Ah I see. Didn't think about that, but I can see how it's worth the extra hassle of going with a different frame in order to set it all up the way you have.

I reckon if you could keep the total weight under 15Kg and the price under $2750 in the same/similar electric configuration and setup you'd be onto a winner in terms of a sellable product.
You could probably shave a bit off the total cost if you didn't go with disc brakes in the rear (they're not really needed for a bike of that weight IMO) then you could use a standard wheel for the rear at least and save ~$500.

Cheers

 

[Kepler]

A good bike for this setup would be a cyclocross bike. These bikes are basically road bikes built for cross country work and quite often come with disc brakes standard.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=1156

 

[pendragon8000]

Thanks Jay.

That motor is only temporary at the moment anyway. The plan is to fit a Scorpion motor although they aren't exactly subtle in their colouring either

I needed two hands to lift the Fighter over my head. This time its with one hand. Actually the bike weighs heaps, I am just incredibly strong

LOL, yeah! i recall that photo. this 29er looks soo light.
any link/pic of new motor you're thinking of?

 

[Hyena]

any link/pic of new motor you're thinking of?

Kepler is really shaving the weight off with this one

 

[Kepler]

:lol: :lol: That's the one. Should go like a cut cat.

Close but this is more what I am thinking of. Would hurt cutting the shaft off though.



http://arkrc.com.au/sc5030-220kv-scorpion-s-5030-220kv-f3a-special/

Here is a better photo of the cable covers. Glad I went with 20mm as its amazing how much room 3 x 12# cables and control cable takes.

 

[pendragon8000]

any link/pic of new motor you're thinking of?

Kepler is really shaving the weight off with this one

LOL!

: Would hurt cutting the shaft off though.

yeah i was thinking if you got a biger motor you might have to trim it.

cutting shaft always makes me cry to
edit
what? weight shaving shaft?
um yeah.
220kv, isnt that a bit high for the diameter of motor?(efective wheel speed would be over 100kph on 10s .
also btw hows your ca v3 going? you got the current limiting sussed? and hows the throttle ramp up effect the torque engagement?

 

[speedmd]

Great Build. Great solution on the wire routing. You got me planing to build a light one also now with a older carbon road frame with side pulls and standard 23 or 25 mm road tires.

 

[Kepler]

what? weight shaving shaft?
um yeah.
220kv, isnt that a bit high for the diameter of motor?(efective wheel speed would be over 100kph on 10s .
also btw hows your ca v3 going? you got the current limiting sussed? and hows the throttle ramp up effect the torque engagement?

Weight saving is insignificant. Just need to get it out the way.

The 220kv is more for a 6S setup which I may just stick to as i know this works.

Even with the ramp there is enough torque kick for engagement.

 

[Kepler]

Its amazing how much cable you need to run and the amount of room it takes up.



I am quite happy with the way the large screen CA fits on the bike. The trick is to keep it low I think.



I have modified the base of the CA by dremeling the base of the mounting block between the wires to match the curve of the head stem. A cable tie is then used to secure the CA to the bike. Makes for a nice low profile mounting position. Simple but effective.



Still figuring out control on the handle bars but I will start off with mounting a 5K pot in reach of my left thumb that will be used to adjust the level of PAS assist from zero to full. I may then convert this to just use a 3 position switch connected to voltage divider to switch PAS off and provide 2 levels of assist.

 

[pendragon8000]

I found this post VERY helpful when setting my LHM power in aux on cav3
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&p=647750&hilit=position+switch#p647750
Also you might want more stealth with no switch, seeing as you only want 2 power modes you can set 2 different modes in the CA that are for swapping the CA between bikes or switching modes etc, in the latest release you can hold down the left button I think to switch modes and you can label them do it says 400W or 800W or whatever and you could have different speed lims to. I'll have a look for the post and past it in ..
Btw cable tying the CA to stem is cool, I didn't think of that when I did mine but its a bit lacking in security for me. I guess $150 vs $4k : CA vs bike...

Mode switching post by Justin:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&p=660430#p660403

 

[AussieJester]

Beautiful build as always Mr Kepler

Curious what the big deal is with cutting shafts? Want the original for resale maybe?
take it out put it away and replace with shorter shaft... I have replaced the shafts on all my outruners come to think of it, lol cut the originals, some a few times LoL

KiM

 

[Kepler]

I found this post VERY helpful when setting my LHM power in aux on cav3
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&p=647750&hilit=position+switch#p647750
Also you might want more stealth with no switch, seeing as you only want 2 power modes you can set 2 different modes in the CA that are for swapping the CA between bikes or switching modes etc, in the latest release you can hold down the left button I think to switch modes and you can label them do it says 400W or 800W or whatever and you could have different speed lims to. I'll have a look for the post and past it in ..
Btw cable tying the CA to stem is cool, I didn't think of that when I did mine but its a bit lacking in security for me. I guess $150 vs $4k : CA vs bike...

Mode switching post by Justin:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&p=660430#p660403

Thanks for the links pd. The CA3 install is a mini project within itself which is kind of cool as I love that sort of suff.

Mounting security wise, this mount is more secure then the standard clamp by far. It woud never come off under any riding conditions. Other advantage is that there is enough give in the mount that it will rotate on the stem if gets a firm push. Trick is to get the same curved shape on the CA to match the head stem curve to maximise the touching surface area.

 

[Kepler]

Beautiful build as always Mr Kepler

Curious what the big deal is with cutting shafts? Want the original for resale maybe?
take it out put it away and replace with shorter shaft... I have replaced the shafts on all my outruners come to think of it, lol cut the originals, some a few times LoL

KiM

Hi Kim. Thanks mate.

Good point on replacing the shaft rather then cutting it. I just find it difficult to ruin a nice piece of engineering especially when it s made out of titanium. It may be available as a spare part too but it would be too hard to woop one up on the lathe either out tof the right diam silver steel.

 

[Thud]

Titanium shaft in the scorpion?
(I wondered how they justified the pricing)
I just buy drill rod (silver steel for you over sea's fellow) in the correct dia.
Shafts-schmafts

 

[t3sla]

Good point on replacing the shaft rather then cutting it. I just find it difficult to ruin a nice piece of engineering especially when it s made out of titanium. It may be available as a spare part too but it would be too hard to woop one up on the lathe either out tof the right diam silver steel.

Says the man 'butchering' a carbon bike

 

[Kepler]

Butchering a carbon bike. Enhancing if you don't mind.

Not one cut, drill hole or scratch placed on the bike during this build.

 

[Kepler]

After putting a few kms on the bike unassisted but with the motor mount fitted, some issues have showed up with the way the Schlumpf bottom bracket mounts with the drive side plates. Bit of a shame as it had lots going for it and its and plenty of room to fit the PAS magnetic ring.

So now I have got to conventional bottom bracket and mountain bike chain ring. The drive side plates work perfectly with a stock bottom bracket however there just no room to mount the PAS ring so it meant some modification to the chain ring assembly was required.

I didn't need the granny gear so this was removed together with its mounting lugs. A recess was then cut into the spider where the granny use to be and the PAS then epoxied into the recess. Result is nice hidden PAS ring fitting in nicely with the ultra stealth appearance.

 

[Kepler]

Had a bit of reality check with the bike today. Had the friction drive up and running OK but after running with geared hub motors for some time now on my other bikes, the noisy friction drive just didn't seem right on this bike. So time for planB.

Lots of good things have come out of this build so far with working on making the installation as stealth as possible. The hidden wiring, battery position, hidden PAS sensor, and CA3 all work well and are keepers. However, it looks like I will be succumbing to a boring geared hub motor for this build.

So I just ordered a Bafang SWXH with a torque wind which I will lace up into a 700C rim. A 6 FET mini monster controller will go under the bottom bracket and get some custom work done to it so it hides away as much as possible together with some serious weather sealing. I will run the motor on 18S 75V hot off the charger and current limit to 15A max. This should give me enough to push the bike towards the 45kph mark. I will keep it pure PAS but have 3 levels of assist plus PAS off and launch mode to get off the line without pedaling if needed. I will also install a thermistor into the motor and wire back to the CA for some active temp protection. (loving the new CA3)

I think I need to add a bit more battery capacity also and will go for 5ah 18S. This should give me enough for my 27km commute to work. I can still get this into a seat bag but obviously I need to go with a bigger bag now.

So that blows the 10kg target right out of the water but doesn't destroy the weight weenie goal completely. I think 12kg to 13kg or around 29lb will be achievable still and to be honest, i think I will end up with an overall better result.

One of the other main aims of this build was to build an ebike that you really needed to take a close look at it realise it was electric. I hope I manage to achieve this goal. You guys will be the judge

 

[t3sla]

Wow thats a big change. You going for rear or front hub?

 

[Kepler]

Tell me about it.

Rear hub. Plan is to also make a custom torque arm that attaches to the disc brake mount

 

[Hyena]

Shame to abandon your friction drive but I did think it a little odd that you were going to so much trouble to make this so stealthy and essentially invisiable only to have it all go out the window the second you touch the throttle (or turn a pedal in your case with PAS only ) It's like a tranny who's had all the work done and looks legit until 'she' opens her mouth and in a deep voice says " Hi I'm Bruce" :lol:

I'm curious to see how the hub route plays out.
I think I mentioned around the time you started this thread (or just before) that I was looking at running a mac or bpm on a CF frame but decided against it in the end for fear of torque issues and the often unforgiving nature of carbon frame failures. I then considered crmo forks and the smaller front motor (I normally dislike FWDs but for a lowish powered road only bike they're fine) but ended up shelving the whole project.

27ks is a fair effort from a small motor on 5ah. Are you planning to use it more for pedal assist than constant propulsion ?
The guess the light bike and skinny tyres etc make for a more efficient roller

 

[pendragon8000]

27ks is a fair effort from a small motor on 5ah. Are you planning to use it more for pedal assist than constant propulsion ?
The guess the light bike and skinny tyres etc make for a more efficient roller

And all importantly 29" wheels ... "fashion victims" ....

 

[Kepler]

Shame to abandon your friction drive but I did think it a little odd that you were going to so much trouble to make this so stealthy and essentially invisiable only to have it all go out the window the second you touch the throttle (or turn a pedal in your case with PAS only ) It's like a tranny who's had all the work done and looks legit until 'she' opens her mouth and in a deep voice says " Hi I'm Bruce" :lol:

Kind of the conclusion I came to also. I think I just forgot how much noise the RC friction drive made.

I'm curious to see how the hub route plays out.
I think I mentioned around the time you started this thread (or just before) that I was looking at running a mac or bpm on a CF frame but decided against it in the end for fear of torque issues and the often unforgiving nature of carbon frame failures. I then considered crmo forks and the smaller front motor (I normally dislike FWDs but for a lowish powered road only bike they're fine) but ended up shelving the whole project.

I still much prefer the rear hub especially as the small hub motors look just like an internal gear set or even a torque measuring hub like you see on a lot of road bikes now. With the low power level and transferring the torque load to the disc brake mount, I think the frame will be fine.

27ks is a fair effort from a small motor on 5ah. Are you planning to use it more for pedal assist than constant propulsion ?
The guess the light bike and skinny tyres etc make for a more efficient roller

The 5ah 18S setup will come close on this sort of bike. I can do 25km with the Fighter and larger geared motor without trying too hard.