new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[spinningmagnets]

It could certainly use a more professional clamping method, but...when the motor is energized, it tries to pull "UP" against the downtube. The clamping method used is only to prevent the weight of the motor from "drooping" down when not powered.

That being the situation, I am reminded of the Pogo comic that stated "I have seen the enemy, and it is us".

When the mass market chases the cheapest solution, we end up with hose clamps. Nobody is stopping any one of us from drawing up a professional-looking tube clamp from billet aluminum, and having it water-jetted from "Big Blue Saw".

 

[gman1971]

Well, 700 miles might not relevant in your opinion, but at 6kW on a 100 lbs trike is sort of relevant using a 10 speed chain; I also have 2k miles on my Cyclone eBike (and previously 1000 miles with a GNG, so 2800 miles combined) and the chain lasted using both kits 2600 miles, and most of the life was shortened due to the other kit being a torque monster, vs a spinner.

You're wrong making the generalization that motorcycle sprockets last 10k miles, it depends on many factors, and they can last as little as 2000 miles, if you ride a powerful motorcycle like a stunt rider... seen that.

I've had my trike for 1 month now, and 700 miles in one month is fairly easy for me to do too.

To set the record straight: your BBS02 is NOT on the same league as any of my Cyclone 3000W mid-drives, one pumping 3000W at 48V and 60 amps, and the other pumping 6 kW @ 74V and ~90 amps... do you have something to compare to? Probably not, so please, think before you play down my findings. Your BBS02 is a torque monster that requires you to ride in a 44-11T combo to get any decent speed, hence it will eat chains left and right. So yeah, 1200 miles at 750 Watts is pathetic at best, and 2400 is still under what I got on my 12S @ 60 amp midrive Cylone eBike, this was a 10 speed chain with snow, salt and other not so nice conditions on the road, running 1500 watts (or more) AVERAGE power... which is 50% more power than the BBS02 can deliver as PEAK...... once again, if you care to read this thread and you want long lasting chains and sprockets you need a Cyclone; and don't let the hose clamp scare you.

I am expecting to get 6+k miles out of my current trike chain; running it at 30 mph average speed (100 lbs trike)

Lastly, I ride in Wisconsin US of A, around here we have 25% grade hills, frozen winters with road salt everywhere... and it rains here as well.

G.

You should know I am running my Cyclone @ 6 kW (that is 6000 Watts) with a Shimano 10-speed bicycle chain and a 10-speed cassette... and after 700 fun miles my chain has less than .125% stretch (which is the min I can measure btw)... nuff said, I think you have some reading to do.

G.

700 miles is nothing and not relevant data. I do 700 mes in less than a month!

What we need are chain and sprockets lasting more than 10K miles like on motorcycle.

On my bbs02 my shimano chain use to last around 1200 miles wheen I used the gears and up to 2500 miles when I changed to single speed chain and stopped shifting speed. However I am in a very rainy environment (london) and water accelerate greatly the wear of these elements.

Now I exclusively use direct drive to avoid all these hassle and constantly doing maintenance (lube and clean chain) as well as frequently buying replacement parts.

 

[gman1971]

gman,

I don't think I would be agreeing with this, but yes.

In the end we share similar views and both use a pragmatic idea of modification to meet our needs.

So working modifications that work for you under the conditions of how you use them do certainly fall into the valid category of ...as we show [to work].

Agreed, and at the end of the day we build our eBikes to work for our own application...

And to cwah,

You can increase power with more torque, which is what these Bafangs do, but you can also increase the power with RPM, which is what I've chosen to do with my Cyclone. And by increasing system RPM I've reduced the forces that are transmitted through the chains to deliver the same amount of power at the rear wheel, therefore prolonging chain life by quite a bit.

G.

 

[cbobgo]

Bench test, all plugged in and working. Bottom bracket is off, will be starting the install soon.

Very nice,

at the very least I would suggest enabling mode #3 on the controller and doing the simple washer mod, that will strengthen the mount enough to be reliable under most non-extreme riding conditions.

G.

We will be doing a pretty secure mounting, with longer bolts to a second plate, plus an addition attachment to the downtube. I will show pics.

Can you explain again how to engage mode 3 in terms that an electronics novice like myself could understand?

- bob

 

[dirkdiggler]

I got the cyclone setup on a kona stinky primo. Trying out a pedalless setup. Works great for the straight up hills I tried it out on. The motor didn't heat up or miss a beat. Had it going as fast as I wanted. I am going for a single track light moto. I've been riding the 750w bafang for the last few years and wanted more power. I'd love an lmx but don't know if the local lycra would appreciate that on the trails.
Compared to the bafang, install was a pain. Spent more time figuring stuff out than building. Modified it to fit my needs. I used 1/4" bolts and threaded spacers from home depot. Also added a u clamp instead of pipe clamp and zip tie.
I'll update this when I finally get a real ride. Can't believe they wouldn't have a better motor mount. The controller is another rat's nest of wires. I will cut off and solder all the extra. Still unsure if it needs mode 3 yet - I bench tested it on mode 3 and it doubled the max rpms. It came with a decent throttle but has a key. I like the voltage meter but want to cut off the key part.
Got 12s of 10ah multistars in the bag. I'll hook up a wattmeter to check the controller stats. Also need to replace the crank arms with some better ones. Just threw in some sparea to test.

 

[gman1971]

See this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

G.

Bench test, all plugged in and working. Bottom bracket is off, will be starting the install soon.

Very nice,

at the very least I would suggest enabling mode #3 on the controller and doing the simple washer mod, that will strengthen the mount enough to be reliable under most non-extreme riding conditions.

G.

We will be doing a pretty secure mounting, with longer bolts to a second plate, plus an addition attachment to the downtube. I will show pics.

Can you explain again how to engage mode 3 in terms that an electronics novice like myself could understand?

- bob

 

[gman1971]

@dirkdiggler

Very nice!

Never tried the direct to cassette setup, but it should work very well. You want more RPM so the chain will always be on the big cogs. At the very least you can get the cyclone 3 speed switch so you can toggle between modes on the fly.

G.

 

[cbobgo]

Thanks for the video, a little hard to see what exactly what he was doing. Was that a paperclip stuck in there?

See this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

G.

 

[dirkdiggler]

Just short out the middle wire and one of the end wires to get mode 3. The wire should be labeled on the controller. If that doesn't increase the rpms, then use the end wire on the other side and again in the middle wire.
Make sense?

 

[gman1971]

Just short out the middle wire and one of the end wires to get mode 3. The wire should be labeled on the controller. If that doesn't increase the rpms, then use the end wire on the other side and again in the middle wire.
Make sense?

Yes, thats it. You can also use a three way switch with center off to get the three mode switch working. I am always running mode #3 on my eBike and my eTrike. No issues to date. On 18S you need to have some load as the motor might stutter when at max RPM, which could be due to the controller not being able to keep up with the timing (or bad hall sensors on the motor...) not sure. Either way, the thing in mode#3 is pretty nice and will take the bite out of the chains for running high speed.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Thanks for the video, a little hard to see what exactly what he was doing. Was that a paperclip stuck in there?

See this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

G.

Not a paper clip, I originally used a resistor, since I wasn't sure if it would short when I plugged cables together...

G.

 

[Phife]

3D Printed Cyclone Motor Mounts!!

I decided to put my 3d printer to good use and print out some prototype motor mounts for the cyclone motor. I took measurements of the motor and the current BB mount brackets and added some spacers and more mounting locations. This mount connects to both sides of the motor and holds it very securely. I added 2 more bolts to make it strong. The mount is in contact with the flat area of the motor as much as possible. Im using 1/4"-20 bolts with a coupling nut sandwiched between the mount and one of the side plates. Tightening the bolts here really lock the motor to the side plates. I also added a place to put in another bolt to attach the spring for the tensioner. I plan on adding a chain guard in the future.

My motor mounts in my bikes frame so it gets wedged between the downtube and seattube, I didnt put in any mounting brackets for this reason, but it would be easy to add some mounting locations for a bracket to go around the downtube.

Right now the prototype is printed from PolyMAX plastic, The final version will be printed from Alloy 910 filament which is a very strong nylon made for 3d printing. I will be testing the current prototype to look for weaknesses and improve the design for the final version. I will release the models for you guys if anyones interested. I have sketchup models of the 3000w cyclone motor and the motor mounts as well as .STL files for 3D Printing. I will probably upload it to Thingiverse when its ready.

Lots of testing to do, but these parts are pretty tough, if it holds up well in the Polymax then the nylon will be rock solid.

 

[Grizzl-E]

Yes please dude! I have been meaning to make some printable mounts but haven't gotten around to it yet.


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[gman1971]

Excellent!!

G.

 

[NightRider]

I would like to buy a set of these, in black. I hope you will make these available soon!

 

[NightRider]

I bought both the new 1800-3000w and the 1920-3000w motor (shown in the photo below, in the middle and on the left respectively). The 1920-3000w is definitely more powerful, but also a lot louder.

 

[RageNR]

I took measurements of the motor and the current BB mount brackets and added some spacers and more mounting locations.

DAMMIT!!! You stole my idea... ): No I'm kidding.
Really tho, NICE BUILD x9000! This is almost exactly what I am trying to do on my build, mount it in the frame above the crank.
Would you please PLEASE send your measurements over. Need the measurements of the stock bracket and the dimensions of the motor, if that is not too much to ask.
I have a build thread going over in Technical I think. My frame is a bit smaller and more restrictive than yours. The decision to buy the Cyclone kit from Luna will depend on the ability to fit the motor in the frame.
I would greatly appreciate it.

I bought both the new 1800-3000w and the 1920-3000w motor (shown in the photo below, in the middle and on the left respectively), but I have not managed to draw more than 26 amps from the battery!

Wait a minute... there are different Cyclone 3000w motors now?? Which one is the kit from Luna?
Oh boy, another wrench thrown into the mix. ------------------------------ WHAT FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! decisions decisions

 

[Phife]

For the people interested in the 3D printed motor mount, Give me a few weeks to properly test it. I dont want to give you guys something that is just as bad as stock, although im sure it will be much better just from the tests ive done. My bike is currently being repaired as it took some brake rotor and battery pack damage in an accident I had recently. After I do some proper testing and make sure its going to be solid, I will share the 3D files so you can print them. I dont think I will be selling them directly. I'll probably just share the 3D files for you guys to print on your own, or get printed at a 3d print shop. I hope people can add to, modify, or improve the mounts and we can all benefit from it.

I plan on printing these parts in black nylon 910 when that filament arrives later this week, but I'll do the testing on the white ones as they are much weaker and will show and problems quicker.

Give me a week and I'll make up some dimensioned drawings for those looking to make their own mounts, or just want to know the dimensions of the motor. (Please note, the motor has more features I did not draw, like some gussets around the motor bearing area, or the tensioner but the critical dimensions should be pretty accurate) If you want the sketchup model as it now, shoot me a PM with your email. If I have time, I will go and finish the model of the motor so its more accurate.

Oh, and one last thing, I made this mount to work with the stock motor mount plates, but they have to be drilled to allow for the extra mounting holes and the printed motor mount will have to be modified for your BB width. I have a 73mm BB with a BB conversion so my actual BB width is 77mm, its a simple matter to resize the mount, just remember to do it before you print them.

 

[le15otl]

Wait a minute... there are different Cyclone 3000w motors now?? Which one is the kit from Luna?
Oh boy, another wrench thrown into the mix. ------------------------------ WHAT FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! decisions decisions

The 1920-3000w is rated for slightly higher current (5A more) and has a bit more torque than the 1800-3000w (130 vs 100nm) However it it's 900g heavier and also wider so requires a 190mm bb, but i don't find this an issue at all.
They're both the same speed motors

I believe Luna sells the 1800-3000.

 

[RageNR]

OH, can anyone give me some info on the ISIS setup? My bike came with square drive. Does the ISIS setup improve reliability of the power transfer from the crank to the rear. or is it purely to have a more secure mount for the crank arms only? That is about a $70 upgrade, and I am just wondering if it is worth it.

The 1920-3000w is rated for slightly higher current (5A more) and has a bit more torque than the 1800-3000w (130 vs 100nm) However it it's 900g heavier and also wider so requires a 190mm bb, but i don't find this an issue at all.
They're both the same speed motors

I believe Luna sells the 1800-3000.

Thank you. The smaller of the 2 will fit my project better anyways. I will be attempting to mount mine in the frame above the crank as well.

 

[gman1971]

Yes, the ISIS crank is a better option. It will line up better and the bearings on the BB won't have lateral play after 100 miles like other members have reported.

G.

 

[windtrader]

Performance curves?

I searched high and low here and the Luna and cyclone.tw sites for test results of the motor. Links anyone? Thanks

 

[gman1971]

Performance curves?

I searched high and low here and the Luna and cyclone.tw sites for test results of the motor. Links anyone? Thanks

There is link in this thread I posted that explains the motor power curve by a guy called Chupa (IIRC). I think like 10 pages ago.

G.

 

[robocam]

Whoa, nice!

3D Printed Cyclone Motor Mounts!!

I decided to put my 3d printer to good use and print out some prototype motor mounts for the cyclone motor. I took measurements of the motor and the current BB mount brackets and added some spacers and more mounting locations. This mount connects to both sides of the motor and holds it very securely. I added 2 more bolts to make it strong. The mount is in contact with the flat area of the motor as much as possible. Im using 1/4"-20 bolts with a coupling nut sandwiched between the mount and one of the side plates. Tightening the bolts here really lock the motor to the side plates. I also added a place to put in another bolt to attach the spring for the tensioner. I plan on adding a chain guard in the future.

My motor mounts in my bikes frame so it gets wedged between the downtube and seattube, I didnt put in any mounting brackets for this reason, but it would be easy to add some mounting locations for a bracket to go around the downtube.

Right now the prototype is printed from PolyMAX plastic, The final version will be printed from Alloy 910 filament which is a very strong nylon made for 3d printing. I will be testing the current prototype to look for weaknesses and improve the design for the final version. I will release the models for you guys if anyones interested. I have sketchup models of the 3000w cyclone motor and the motor mounts as well as .STL files for 3D Printing. I will probably upload it to Thingiverse when its ready.

Lots of testing to do, but these parts are pretty tough, if it holds up well in the Polymax then the nylon will be rock solid.

 

[robocam]

And I have an aluminum frame. Doesn't welding to an aluminum frame weaken it (effectively canceling any heat treatment it may have received)? Since my frame is hydroformed, I'd be afraid to make any modifications to it.

If you have access to a welder the most permanent solution would be to weld two very strong support points to the down tube; this will prevent any movement, but since most ppl don't have access to a welder its kinda hard to do...