new eZip motor

[latecurtis]

Sunnko sucks.

There are way better alternatives available then a sucky Sunnko.

OH.

OK.

Thanks for letting me know.

What would you guys recommend then for < $200. Closer to $150 if possible as I am on a tight budget.

Looking at those 26650 cells from Battery Hookup.



They should be way better than the cheaper 3.8 Ah K2 energy cells I bought and soldered.

Since it could be forever before they get the prismatic cells in I wanted , that would be the next logical choice.

Not sure if I even want to build Lion. I really like the fact LIFE charges about 10 times faster. I think I will use the LiOn packs I have as long as they are at least 50% capacity but build new LIFE packs as compact and professional as possible.

I even have those five 26650 K2 energy cells I killed to practice on to set up a spot welder.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Ianhill]

People use branded 18650 cells for the longevity of the pack and fact they do what they say on the tin mostly so if your going to put time into it make it right as you have learnt the hard way but you have to cut the tie to junky cells to get a decent pack.

Spend time and read threads rather than look for more and more new product to implement.

 

[DrkAngel]

Not sure if I even want to build Lion. I really like the fact LIFE charges about 10 times faster. I think I will use the LiOn packs I have as long as they are at least 50% capacity but build new LIFE packs as compact and professional as possible.

Do not let your ignorance rule your thoughts and actions!

Both LiFePO₄ and LiCoO₂ chemistries have a 0.5C recommended charge rate!
It should take the same amount of time to charge either!
However, the 6000mAh you are looking at do support a 1C maximum charge rate, for a ~2 hour full charge (50% charge in 30 minutes)..
But the last LiCo I bought (LG HB2) support a 2.67C maximum charge rate for a <1 hour full charge (50% charge in <12 minutes)

"Recommended" vs "maximum"?
"Recommended" is the maximum charging rate (1 of the factors) to achieve rated cycles.
"Maximum" charge rate is the limit to avoid severe cycle loss or dangerous cell damage-reaction.

 

[latecurtis]

Do not let your ignorance rule your thoughts and actions!

Both LiFePO₄ and LiCoO₂ chemistries have a 0.5C recommended charge rate!
It should take the same amount of time to charge either!

I did not know that.

I thought it was dangerous to charge Lion 18650 at the same rate as my LIFEPO4s.

I will still get 10 times as many cycles from LiFePO4 as LiCoO2 ?

As far as a cheap spot welder < or = to $150 what brand and model do you think is the best for 18650 AND 26650.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Do not let your ignorance rule your thoughts and actions!

Both LiFePO₄ and LiCoO₂ chemistries have a 0.5C recommended charge rate!
It should take the same amount of time to charge either!

I did not know that.

I thought it was dangerous to charge Lion 18650 at the same rate as my LIFEPO4s.

I have explained this before!

 

[latecurtis]

My LiFePO₄ and LTO chargers are 43.6V @ 10 amps and 54.6V @ 15 amps.

You are telling me I can use those for charging my LiCoO₂ packs ???

Even if I can I still will get > 5,000 cycles with LiFePO₄ compared to < or = 1,000 with LiCoO₂

I will be running both. I have the power modules.

When I buy batteries to build another pack though it will be either the LiFePO₄ cells that are 6 Ah or the prismatic cells if Battery Hookup gets them back in.

I will need a good spot welder if they are the 6 Ah 26650 cells or if I do decide to build a LiCoO₂ pack.

I wish someone would post a good one for around $150 < $200.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[calab]

Do you want someone to post a good bms as well?

I will need a good spot welder if they are the 6 Ah 26650 cells or if I do decide to build a LiCoO₂ pack.

I wish someone would post a good one for around $150 < $200.

 

[DrkAngel]

20s 4p (20Ah) pre-spotwelded cells available as 4x 4x5 LiFePO₄ modules that need separation into 5x 4p banks, then wired together.
$225 from battery hookup.($175/kWh)

Of course ... 13s4p LiCo 48V 6.4Ah pre-made power modules w\auto balance boards @ < $100/kWh ... but, I know ... too scary!

 

[latecurtis]

20s 4p (20Ah) pre-spotwelded cells available as 4x 4x5 LiFePO₄ modules that need separation into 5x 4p banks, then wired together.
$225 from battery hookup.($175/kWh)

Of course ... 13s4p LiCo 48V 6.4Ah pre-made power modules w\auto balance boards @ < $100/kWh ... but, I know ... too scary!

I know about those.

I did what I wanted and soldered against the advice of many ES members here. I deliberately ignored people and probably did not do the already half dead cells from sitting around 20 years soldering them improperly. I want a second chance to prove I do not have to be that guy. It will prove that I can follow good advice.

Now I just want to watch youtube videos on how to solder and wrap a professional e bike battery pack and use better brand new grade A cells. I also want a decent spot welder and learn the skill so I can build any pack I want to any time I need one.

It is why I keep asking what would be the best choice for a spot welder closer to $150 than $200. What would you buy if you really needed one to build yourself a pack ?

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[calab]

I would buy the LiCo pack Drk suggested.
I would buy batteries with terminals to hook together to the required voltage and amp-hour
I would buy a battery from Unit Pack Power, Grintech, Luna, EM3, an ev battery module off ebay, Lipo from Hobbyking.

What would you buy if you really needed one to build yourself a pack ?

 

[latecurtis]

I would buy the LiCo pack Drk suggested.

I did.

I bought two 13S power modules.

In fact I want to hook it in parallel to my 13S - 20 Ah - 1,200W lion pack for great range. I just need a single 50 amp or > BMS for the power modules. DA suggested ordering 2 more power modules but why not parallel them with other Lion I already own. It don't matter one is high discharge cells and one is high capacity cells when in parallel. In series it would be a huge mismatch though.

I guess you guys still miss my point. An e bike workshop is a therapeutic goal. Learning to successfully build a professional e bike battery pack is a good thing to master. Plenty of YouTube videos on it.

In my opinion there are three levels of EV people / members.

Anybody can just order the battery just like they could order an e bike factory made.

That is a level 1 EV person. Nothing wrong with them. They are reducing the carbon footprint and living the dream. One type is not better than another type. It is a lot more complicated than that.

I am a level 2 EV person. I like to DIY my own e bike or battery. Obviously it will not reach the performance level of an expensive factory e bike or battery but could compete or surpass a low price factory one.

There are advantages and disadvantages of being either type 1 , 2 or 3.

A type 3 is an EV person who can obtain a profit by building and selling e bikes and/or batteries. Basically a genius. They are at top level and doing something they enjoy and making a profit doing it. To me that is priceless.

However a type 1 EV person could be very rich and riding around in a new Tesla every day and own a lightening motorcycle that does > 200 mph. :lol:

That's how it gets complicated. Just because I am level 2 does not make me better than a level 1 EV guy.

When I started this post I was advised to simply order a factory motor replacement. I did not listen. It is exactly what a type 1 guy would do.

I like being a type 2 EV guy. I am only 1 step away from the type 3 guy.

Basically my e bike workshop went on steroids. It is now 10 by 20 feet instead of 6 by 3 or whatever. I have a wire welder at my disposal. Once the area is stocked with tools and organized a decent spot welder would be the perfect addition.

I already got five e bikes there and four extra motors and parts. I just need to organize tools and stuff and make some plans.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[calab]

Its amazing you still want to try it again after failing multiple times in the past.

Learning to successfully build a professional e bike battery pack is a good thing to master.

 

[latecurtis]

Learning to successfully build a professional e bike battery pack is a good thing to master.

Thank you.

Its amazing you still want to try it again after failing multiple times in the past.

Yes and No. Again it is a little more complicated than that.

One persons opinion of success and failure does not reflect another persons. It all depends on how you look at it.

The point is I can basically go anywhere with the packs I FAILED to build. I am just limited to < 10 miles unless a lot of pedal assist is involved.

I might get 5,000 or more Wall-Mart trips as it is 2.7 miles and 5.4 miles round trip. Likewise anything else in a 3 mile radius is achievable without portable charging. As long as a place to charge the entire planet is a possibility. About 10 miles at a time :lol:

I also soldered a decent size 10S - Lion pack back in NY about 6 years ago with those brown LG cells and rode about a year with no issues. It was about 20 Ah. Great range and discharge. As good as any factory pack I have run.

Then I got stupid one day and accidently plugged in negative and positive together one afternoon thinking I hooked it to the controller.

There was smoke and fire. It was ugly. One BMS failed and the other did not. I threw out the cooked cells and still have the rest separated and in storage. Some are already re soldered into cell banks.

I have enough 18650 cells to build several high capacity packs and multiple cell banks of 6 to 10P - 1S already built. With a decent spot welder I can build anything I want.

I have had limited success soldering packs. But limited success is still success. NOT failure. A failure is an e bike battery that does not run or shoots off sparks under load and dies about a block or two. It wont go for miles and recharge like the packs I can and will continue building.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[tomjasz]

See this channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFNhHdHXh3s

 

[DrkAngel]

I did what I wanted and soldered against the advice of many ES members here.

Not quite right ...
... you soldered, against the advice of some.
... you soldered improperly, in oh so many ways, against the advice and instruction of everyone and every instructional video you have ever, reputably, watched and "learned from"!

Another spot welder?
You have not even tried the one you have already bought! ... ?

 

[calab]

I think curtis has 2 tab spot welders, and yet he wanted a 3rd the junky Suunko.

Not sure what your skill level is but is probably better than mine. I am also scared of electricity. Took me months to get the courage to run LiPo back at the start of this post when someone sent me four used packs. I bought a $24 e bay spot welder a couple months back and have not even tried it.

Are you spot welding or soldering ?????

If I do decide to travel I could bring it and see if we could hook it up. Is something I rather do outside in a park on an old picnic table with a fire extinguisher and 5 gallon bucket of water handy, :lol:

Throw some burgers on a grill. 8) Maybe tip back a few cold beers and roll a nice joint AFTER trying out the mini spot welder.
How much are camp sites for a weekend around there ? I am an alcoholic but never got a DUI or DWi and am not starting now. Why I only drink late at night. Besides it has been years since camping.

DA. is close to your neck of the woods. Would be nice to have an e bike rally like once a year. 3 or more e bike members working on projects and riding e bikes , racing , ect. It would be a blast. Lets see how many ES members are around Western NY and Erie PA. I am in central Ohio but would travel there to actually meet ES members and have some fun. My life has been so boring lately it is ridiculous.

 

[latecurtis]

I think curtis has 2 tab spot welders, and yet he wanted a 3rd the junky Suunko.

NO.

Just the one I paid $24 from e bay that hooks to the lawn mower battery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=231qtaRIs3M&t=516s

Yea.

I do need to try it out.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[calab]

So what happened that you never bothered to use it, or hardly tried it out.

NO.
Just the one I paid $24 from e bay that hooks to the lawn mower battery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=231qtaRIs3M&t=516s
Yea.
I do need to try it out.
Thanks.
LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

So what happened that you never bothered to use it, or hardly tried it out.

The fact that my e bike workshop has been a walk in closet in an attic for the last three years.

I need space and an area that will be easy to contain a fire if it were to occur. Not wood and drywall with zero ventilation. Basically the same reason I do not want to charge 18650 cells in there.

I guess I could have gone to a park with a picnic table and the lawn mower battery on a nice day. I guess the other reason is I am lazy.

I will have everything I need in storage so hopefully I can try it out there. However if I can just get cells that have threaded studs it would be much better. They say spot welding is better for the cells but could still do some damage. Nuts and bolts are the best way.

That is probably why he posted that. Those kind of cells are exactly what I am looking for. However they come in cylinder and Prismatic. I am thinking Prismatic stacked vertically would take up a lot less space. That would be ideal.

I watched the video tomajsz posted and did not see a link for those cells. I will look again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFNhHdHXh3s

If tomajsz reads this post I am working on the Giant Roam. I successfully installed the 22 amp controller with NO WOOD. I will be installing a factory rear rack for my 12S - LIFEPO4. It will look very clean. That build will be that one good build or my first good build.

I need to remove the vice grip from the front. I could not use a torque arm on the side the motor wire came out on. I will need to figure something out for that.

Also I am using a front 700c hub on the stock suspension fork but have full pedal assist and 21 gears. I will be pedaling first and then gradually ease into the throttle. I did that on the Giant Cypress Hybrid back in NY with that motor and never had a problem.

I checked the e bikeling controller yesterday on Johns running e bike and there is a plug connected to three wires red , white and black. It is female and plugs into the throttle male plug which is red , green and black. See pics below.

Of course the rear racks are 4.5 miles away in storage so screwed myself again as far as finishing the Giant Roam. However at least I am making some progress.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[tomjasz]

I watched the video tomajsz posted and did not see a link for those cells. I will look again.
Thanks.

LC. out.

I posted it as an example of a great way of using any cells with threaded ends. Using very inexpensive PCB's. NOT promoting a specific battery.

 

[sungod1]

Oh... I just saw you had picked up a 48v controller as an upgrade.

Never know why people do it, but after the battery system the controller and the motor are what you should dump the budget it.

 

[calab]

Generic controllers are quite cheap but if you want the creme de la creme then it adds up foc/sine/regen/field weakening
Motors are expensive
Batteries are more expensive

Oh... I just saw you had picked up a 48v controller as an upgrade.

Never know why people do it, but after the battery system the controller and the motor are what you should dump the budget it.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

First ride on the Giant Roam was today. I just got back. I did not shoot a video or take any pictures as it is NOT officially finished. I went 5.4 miles to the closest cannabis store. I froze my fingers as forgot my gloves but other than that it was a good ride. I need to install lights though as was dark riding back.

I still need to install a rear factory rack on the back for the battery packs. I used the large wood rack that slides over the top bar to test it as the rear racks are in storage.

The bike rides perfect. All I need to do is mount the batteries on the back and move the seat up about 2 or 3" and I will be able to pedal. Also it needs a rear brake but the brake line is there. It is the post brakes. The front brake work perfectly.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[tomjasz]

I watched the video tomajsz posted and did not see a link for those cells. I will look again.
Thanks.

LC. out.

I posted it as an example of a great way of using any cells with threaded ends. Using very inexpensive PCB's. NOT promoting a specific battery.

 

[calab]

The only thing that should ever slow you down, when deciding whether to get out and ride the ebike is

- how much windchill is there

- and whether there is a large amount of snow on the ground because even your 700c hybrid bike can hack 2-3" of fluff, can even handle ice underlayment. Distance when ebiking has very little meaning, we just get out there and ride. If a battery can go a usual 35 miles on a full charge and at storage voltages take you 25 miles then a measly 4.5 miles is meaningless. For a normal person there is no thinking about it, they just look at the voltage and they should just know how far that can take them based on previous experiences. You dont have to sit and calculate unless your on battery fumes or out of juice, you are 4 miles away and your Cycle Analyst says 30wh remaining.... time to whip over to Starbucks for a quick 8a charge on the Grin Satiator charger as your gazing at the wh increasing but your late.

Range anxiety is a real thing.

When you have a damaged battery that should get you 25 miles but is only providing 5 miles then you my friend are always in Range Anxiety.
Do not worry I have been there, it was horrible but buying a new battery doubled the range and range anxiety has left.

Money, it fixes things real fast :wink: :thumb:

Of course the rear racks are 4.5 miles away in storage so screwed myself again as far as finishing the Giant Roam. However at least I am making some progress.