NYC Lithium Battery Fire

[aroundqube]

Video of a woman hanging out the window by the ledge to escape the fire. Reports that an e-Bike repair business was responsible for the fire. https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/live-updates/midtown-manhattan-high-rise-fire-lithium-ion-battery-fdny-dramatic-rescue/

 

[LewTwo]

Note that the NEVER identify the cell chemistry involved.

 

[john61ct]

li-ion, any of those 3.6-3.7Vnominal are equally risky, which within that doesn't matter

no way LFP or LTO

 

[LewTwo]

li-ion, any of those 3.6-3.7Vnominal are equally risky, which within that doesn't matter

no way LFP or LTO

While I agree that LFP and LTO are lower risk they are both "Lithium Ion" cell chemistries and painted with the same broad brush in these stories.

 

[john61ct]

And that will most likely never change, unless large corporations with the same nationality as the legislators / regulators / insurance companies pur a lot of money into education and lobbying.

Meantime expect more and more roadblocks to this niche hobby as a DIY opportunity.

Rise of the idiots, why we can't have nice things

 

[Hillhater]

no way LFP or LTO

Have you forgotten the Fisker A123 LFP fires ?
..or the French LFP E Bus fires ?
..or the BYD LFP taxi fires ?

 

[xylene23nyc]

According to several articles and stats on the subject NYC has over 65,000 app based delivery workers mostly on E-Bikes and other PEV's.

When you consider that number of underpaid delivery workers depending on batteries it only makes sense in my mind that there will be a dozen or so fires every year. Add in that most live in apartment buildings likely housing hundreds of people so the number affected will be high.

How many underpaid delivery workers are going to stop using the battery that helps feed their kids when they get into an accident? They should but not many.will.

How many of these underpaid employees will try to maximize the amount of deliveries by ultra fast charging their $300 e-bike battery packs made.out of budget 1$ or less Chinese cells? Most will

How many will use some random neighborhood guy they heard about to fix or mod their battery on the ultra cheap? Most

 

[xylene23nyc]

In my opinion the only solution to the NYC e-bike battery fires will be these delivery apps subsidizing high quality electric batteries or E-Bikes on the cheap to their employees

Oh yeah these venture capitalists and private equity types aren't into having employees but prefer "independent contractors". Gotta love this gig worker economy.

 

[Hillhater]

Or….
Whe adopt a “standardised” battery format , and use a battery swap system as used in Tiawan..
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=118101#p1737506

 

[john61ct]

All those great ideas...

"Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else."

— Winston Churchill

 

[docw009]

The NYC city council wil be considering bills to
-ban used/reconditioned cells in batteries
-require independend safety lab certification of batteries
-educate users on battery safety

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2022/11/15/fdny-agreement-nyc-councils-lithium-ion-battery-bills?fbclid=IwAR1YV_OAm0P_6C8sVEBNpijigcgs2g-QzladYChNsCte01dpViEX6SFcv30#.Y3UeMOTMJKJ

With an ebike fire every ithery day in the city, I appreciate the alarm. The article does bring up some criticisms of delivery bike packs, how they are used 24/7 and subject to a very harsh life. Should ebike batteriess used in a be business be subject to a higher standard, or should all batteries have to meet this level.

As a hobbyist, I enjoy running on a $30 ninebot scooter pack. It's built better than any shrinkwrapped junk I've bought from China. I think import of the latter should be prohibited, unless thay can pass some standards, not because I already have one. I think they are dangerous. I plan to dismantle mine and rebuild it.

 

[Comrade]

The NYC city council wil be considering bills to
-ban used/reconditioned cells in batteries
-require independend safety lab certification of batteries
-educate users on battery safety

I guess they are done with regulating guns and solving gun crime. They are onto batteries now. :lol:

 

[john61ct]

Well saving lives is a pretty good cause

 

[LewTwo]

I would not mind having more standardization and some safety standards for e-bikes but such regulation need to be written by persons with both some intelligence and knowledge of the hardware ... not ignorant, knee-jerk politicians reacting to badly written news media stories.

 

[Comrade]

Well saving lives is a pretty good cause

The underlying incentives do not go away if city council wastes some more paper on some more local ordinances.

How many underpaid delivery workers are going to stop using the battery that helps feed their kids when they get into an accident? They should but not many.will.

How many of these underpaid employees will try to maximize the amount of deliveries by ultra fast charging their $300 e-bike battery packs made.out of budget 1$ or less Chinese cells? Most will

How many will use some random neighborhood guy they heard about to fix or mod their battery on the ultra cheap? Most

The target audience of these ordinance will most likely not even be aware that they exist. And even if they did, there is no incentive whatsoever to follow them. Those ordinances can't prevent shoddy batteries from being sold even within the state. It's a city ordinance. Let alone interstate online purchases, which probably makes up 99.999% of the batteries that caught fire.

There is not much harm in wasting paper on useless ordinances. But there is harm in not doing something that will actually help the problem. And that's exactly what will happen.

 

[xylene23nyc]

NYC's 65,000 PEV (mostly E-bikes) Delivery workers https://losdeliveristasunidos.org/ (I'm not part of this just heard about it) have organized in NYC as a group that has so far shown to have some political influence.

The city tried to ban E-Bikes in all NYC owned public housing (over 300K people) and due to pressure from this organized group had to back down for the time time being.

Personally I ride for fun and leisure along with several hundred (guessing around 1000 at most?) other known E-bikers in the 72V/Modder NYC E-bike communities but know that we are only a drop in the NYC PEV bucket.

 

[xylene23nyc]

Those ordinances can't prevent shoddy batteries from being sold even within the state. It's a city ordinance. Let alone interstate online purchases, which probably makes up 99.999% of the batteries that caught fire.

There is not much harm in wasting paper on useless ordinances. But there is harm in not doing something that will actually help the problem. And that's exactly what will happen.

I agree.

Cars kill way more people than all electric battery fires by a landslide all day every day in NYC. If Cops and speed camera won't stop 70% of cars from daily speeding on local roads then forget inspections of e-bike batterys.

Private Equity/venture Capital delivery apps sure do have the means $ to subsidize new battery standards or shares for their 65k "independent contractors" in NYC if they wished but I wont be holding my breath any time soon.