Oil cooling your hub- NOT snake oil!

@GCinDC
which motor: Not sure, I think its an Ezee 400w. I got it from cycle9.com in 2010. It looks like the one in this pic: http://www.electricvehiclesnw.com/images/ezee/2012/kit/eZee-2012-kit-1200.jpg

which side: Its leaking out of the wire hole only.


Brake cleaner! Thats what I need.

What will be needed after a good wire hole sealing is a breather hole. What have you done for that? I want to make some kind of breather through the wire hole, if I could find a small enough (perhaps oil and water blocking) filter I'd like to install it on the stator and stuff a pipe into the wire hole, then seal all around it. I've done some quick searches for filters but wasn't finding anything.
 
The Stig said:
...breather hole. What have you done for that?
Click to expand...
i liked this auraslips idea:
1PosXl.png

and implemented like this and later cut it down and jb welded it to the sidecover but not well:
20120519_081923.jpg


hilarious pics from my first attempt here.
ps. that's like half full of oil, at least 300ml. cooled great! i can't imagine 60 ml even sloshing around. that much gets stuck in the windings...

i think 100 is the magic number, and if sealed well might use more.
 
GCinDC said:
... i can't imagine 60 ml even sloshing around. that much gets stuck in the windings...
i think 100 is the magic number, and if sealed well might use more.
Click to expand...
do you say 100ml initial, or 100ml after the stator sucked up all the oil? i filled mine with 120ml (for the very first time ever). i don't think there is a lot of oil floating around inside.
2nd question: where did you put thermistor? mine is set under one winding directly next to the stator.
 
The Stig said:
GCinDC, in the photo of your spiral breather tube, what is the direction of rotation?
Click to expand...
in my photo you're looking at the drive side - oil on the freewheel is no big deal but a total waste of $25 disc pads if oil leaks on the disc side!

actually, i think the wheel direction is opposite as indicated by the arrow on the pic.. for mine, forward is to the right... and the idea is that centrifugal force will make it impossible to leak...

i used jb weld to seal the hole. and the tube poked inside a bit at a slight angle. should be some pics a bit later in this same thread, as well as a few on my own.

can't remember the details now but w/ 100ml or so in there, riding hard up my mile long hill, i still got it up 140C or so, and notice a leak through the bearing seal not long after.

might be safer to run more oil and always keep temps below 120C.

someone should make keyne kit tho, with tubes, CF rings, pump, radiator and oversized bearing... his water cooling method is schweet.
 
I remember that post here, about a year ago? The initial feeling was that the oil stayed in place from centrifugal forces. If I recall, the bonus was that you couldn't over fill the hub and as long as there was enough ATF. Too much and the ATF may get on the disc brakes. I believe he purposely made it on the opposite side to address this issue. :|

Edit: I recall it was to keep water out.
 
The Stig said:
Thats actually a pretty small filter, I don't think there is enough room in that filter for a bag to expand. You would want a bag rather than a baloon because you wouldn't want any pressure to build up in the motor, negative or positive.

I'm not sure what kind of oil I would put on this filter to make it water resistant...
Click to expand...


Why not use a simple petrol filter instead? It got the right connections for a small tube already and is pretty waterproof.

Benzinfilter-fram.jpg
 
Bake Cleaner! Brake Cleaner! Seriously!

Probably fine. But I would keep it off of the windings...for sure...otherwise it could work out something like this...
[youtube]FftEeQmuDWM[/youtube]

I currently am going with all wires sealed tight except for a loose breather set. Everything else I am finding is just too costy. I was even considering...with my configuration...to have it be the wires going to the controller, and just allow some drippage into the controller. Is this crazy?
 
The Stig said:
Is this intended to not allow water to enter?

If so whats to stop water from entering?
Click to expand...
worrying about water coming in that hole? :lol:

how bout swiss cheesing the sidecovers and then going through a creek! :twisted:
[youtube]oTPtubC4lDo[/youtube]

paste jbweld over the halls, then no more worry about water. i got more water in my motor when it was 'sealed'! as the motor cools after a wet ride, all the water is sucked in the wires, and THEN without having a way to VENT, THIS is what happens! justin talks all about this in that vid.
file.php

granted, that's the hs3540 with the wire slot (after only a couple wet rides)... i never had that problem with a 9C.

in any case, had i used an anti corrosion spray and had vent holes, it never would have rusted...

i imagine oil would have the same effect.

the windings can run underwater. it's just the halls that need to be protected from water/corrosion..
 
GCinDC said:
worrying about water coming in that hole? :lol:
Click to expand...
Well yeah its no biggy for an oil-free motor but if water got in with the oil, it would probably get emulsified/degrade the oil? Plus I want to be able to ride on the Atlantic beaches here and that means sand, salt, and salt water, which I definitely don't want getting in.

Nice vid and slo mo! I would edit the fail at the end into the middle though! Have it finish on a high note!


Marc S. said:
Why not use a simple petrol filter instead? It got the right connections for a small tube already and is pretty waterproof.

Benzinfilter-fram.jpg
Click to expand...

I will probably try this if I find a good mounting spot. Think it can take the heat inside the motor?



Sancho's Horse said:
Bake Cleaner! Brake Cleaner! Seriously!

Probably fine. But I would keep it off of the windings...for sure...otherwise it could work out something like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FftEeQmuDWM

I currently am going with all wires sealed tight except for a loose breather set. Everything else I am finding is just too costy. I was even considering...with my configuration...to have it be the wires going to the controller, and just allow some drippage into the controller. Is this crazy?
Click to expand...
Wow that looks pretty bad... now im wondering how I should apply the brake cleaner?

Not sure what you mean by a loose breather set. Or how it would drip on your controller?
 
johnrobholmes said:
Wires and jackets can be sealed with vacuum and epoxy or silicone. Make a drip loop into the sealing material within the vac chamber, with the jacket opening under the sealant. Pull the vac and get the first bubbles out of the jacket, then clean it all off and let it cure.
Click to expand...

So can anyone explain what JRH was talking about here? I've thought about using a vaccum cleaner to pull silicone into the wire hole in the axle but not sure thats what hes referring to... and whats a drip loop, etc...
 
just wanted to give an update on my oilcooling experience so far. now that i have 100km+ on the oil cooled 3540 i can say, that it's WORTH it. absolutely. i don't know if i ever will be able to open the motor, now that it's sealed, but the temp problem (while not totally gone) go MUCH less severe. i could easily reach 110°C after 1-2min hard climbing a hill with 3.5kW. now the motor will be 80° after this torture.
i also did a high power pressure ride through the mountains. uphill, downhill, and all in a hurry, as bbq was waiting at home :)
i NEVER reached 110°C. of course there was some limiting of the CA involved, but i never was out of power. going back home is a long climb, and i had full power available. the motor was initially filled with 120ml ATF, and i never added more. the little breather hole lost a very little oil spray, which i could wipe away easily. the rotor side seems very well sealed - so no problem there.

CIMG6422.JPG
 
izeman said:
now that i have 100km+ on the oil cooled 3540 i can say, that it's WORTH it. absolutely...
Click to expand...
great to hear! keep us posted if there's any leak! happy ebiking.

ps. no pics at all? i'd love to see how you filled the wireslot... which sealant did you use? did you seal the halls also? and did you do anything to the wire ends inside the motor? come on, i know you took a few pics... :p
 
GCinDC said:
izeman said:
now that i have 100km+ on the oil cooled 3540 i can say, that it's WORTH it. absolutely...
Click to expand...
great to hear! keep us posted if there's any leak! happy ebiking.

ps. no pics at all? i'd love to see how you filled the wireslot... which sealant did you use? did you seal the halls also? and did you do anything to the wire ends inside the motor? come on, i know you took a few pics... :p
Click to expand...
sure. pics are all in my build thread. pics start here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38848&start=75#p735403
if you still have any questions, afterwards let me know *ggg*
 
i hope it too (pics) :mrgreen:
.....i changed from 3540 to 4080 and last 2 days we have 35° Outside.

2KW Road-Cruising @ 65/70 km/h the 4080 gets 120/130° at the Windings.
with 1KW Cruising @ 52/55 km/h the Motor stays at 120° ....

Ok its Hot outside and i know my Daily Hillride with my dog the 4080 gets 20° less hotter then the 3540.
But Yep, more Copper, more Mass expands only the Time to Ride same Power. But the Time comes, Motor gets Hot.

Hope to hear more experiences from Justins Tests air/oil :D
 
surely some company must make a pressure valve of some sort that only vents air and filters out any fluid right? Afterall it's 2013 and there are many types of valves used in many industries, like petroleum, etc. I'm a little surprised nothing has been implemented yet considering the oil cooling has proven very effective. Has anyone experimented with a proper valve like this that works on ebikes lately (besides what is shown in this thead)?
 
maybe a sintered bronze fuel filter would work as an external filter on a vent tube connected to The wire hole in the axle... would sintered bronze be better than the paper type of these fuel filters?
10422.jpg


I was wondering if there was some kind of filter that would block water and oil...





Heres another idea for the screw vent hole: Drilling a larger diameter, but shallow hole into the end of the screw so that oil thats splashed onto the screw can't flow out of the motor. My only concerns would be dust or sand getting in the type of vent slowly over time...

Diagram showing what i mean by drilling the end of the screw out a bit. I wouldn't use a screw with a hex head(as in the diagram just below), I would use a screw with an allen head like the original idea(several posts up)
 
The Stig said:
Heres another idea for the screw vent hole: Drilling a larger diameter, but shallow hole into the end of the screw so that oil thats splashed onto the screw can't flow out of the motor. My only concerns would be dust or sand getting in the type of vent slowly over time...

Diagram showing what i mean by drilling the end of the screw out a bit. I wouldn't use this style screw head, I would use an allen screw head like the original idea(several posts up)
Click to expand...

this is more or less how i did it. just install the screw with a hole, and you're done. it's a hex head and you could plug some foam inside the little hole to soak up a bit of oil, and not let dust/sand get in. that's super easy and totally efficient if you are NOT drowning the motor while doing heavy river crossing ;)

hole_foam.jpg
 
i will open my 3540 today as it leaks a little oil which made the rear disc brake useless. oil coming out is black/grey, so it looks it comes through the bearings. i orders 2x 6203 rsh skf bearings, which are double sealed. really not like other bearing, they are hard to turn. i would not use this in a bike, but some watts loss because of the rubber sealings will not be too much if you normally feed it some kW ;)
i will open it, and take pictures. looking forward to see what heat an atf did to silicone sealing, heatshrink and everything else in the motor after some weeks and some hundred km ride. stay tuned ...
 
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