Phat Bike Build

[jkbrigman]

Got the dual kickstand installed on the bike. While charging it for another test ride, the BMSBattery 74v charger blew. And I mean, it blew on it's own, no aggravating factors whatsoever. I even had a room fan blowing on it, trying to be extra careful. The pack reached 70v then I saw flames and smoke erupt from the end of the case.

I can still charge with the balancing charger, but that's much slower and more difficult: 150W vs. 600W and I have to disassemble the pack to balance charge. Wanted to ride to work this morning, but I couldn't get the battery charged up in time last night before hitting the sack.

I'll contact BMSBattery, talk to them about it and update the thread with what I find out.

 

[pendragon8000]

The pack reached 70v then I saw flames and smoke erupt from the end of the case.

good idea.
lucky you weren't asleep yet.
I hope you can get a new charger...
...if you want one.

 

[Kinni420]

lol JKB youre just cursed!

my bike has developed a wobble in the motor wheel and its quite obvious when riding. I tried to adjust a couple of spokes and snapped the nipples in half! time to go buy more nipples and try to loosen the entire wheel, I think i got it a bit too tight.

 

[jkbrigman]

lol JKB youre just cursed!

my bike has developed a wobble in the motor wheel and its quite obvious when riding. I tried to adjust a couple of spokes and snapped the nipples in half! time to go buy more nipples and try to loosen the entire wheel, I think i got it a bit too tight.

The text below also cross-posted to the BMSbattery Charger Problems thread:


Looks like two "power" resistors, two capacitors, maybe a diode or two.

It appears the main damage was confined to this one small section of the battery charger? The "can" of one of the small electrolytic capacitors simply "exploded" off the part and left the innards of the capacitor to unravel. The two power resistors simply burned up.

 

[jkbrigman]

Phat Bike is down for now: both Kingpan chargers have failed, and I'm a sad, sad ebiker, wedged and unable to move like a ship stuck on a sandbar. Investigating options, liking cell_man's chargers as replacements.

I'll fix the Kingpan chargers, but that will take a long time for me to get to and I need to get the ebike back on the road before then. cell_man has an excellent reputation, let's see if he can help....

 

[pendragon8000]

Sounds like your a bit devostated. Why not try the "bc168" 8amp per cell charge rate.

 

[neptronix]

I hear cell_man's chargers are actually a different brand in the same box.
Hopefully you will have better luck.

This is why i use RC chargers.... i've had great luck with them so far. 14S is a good voltage..

 

[jkbrigman]

I hear cell_man's chargers are actually a different brand in the same box.
Hopefully you will have better luck.

This is why i use RC chargers.... i've had great luck with them so far. 14S is a good voltage..

Pendragon: you are right - I am a bit devostated:
My supabadd ride is idled in the garage for lack of...a...a...74v battery charger. How lame is that!

Pendragon: There's a thread on the bc168 http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=50172&hilit=bc168 failing....You've had no trouble with yours?

Neps and Pendragon: I've ordered the Turnigy 4x6S 400 watt RC charger as a first pass fix. I had to face the fact that an R/C charger is robust and durable, fed with a simple, easy-to-replace 12v-20v DC supply (depending on S-value) or even charge from a 12v car battery out in the field. Yay!. The one I ordered (HobbyKing) is out of stock, so I'll be waiting awhile. I'm limping along right now with the R/C one I do have: a 150watt 106B and 12V/10A switching supply. I can use the bike for grocery runs or any other trip of 35 miles or less. I don't pack it on the bike, though. Just too many fragile connectors.

This is balance charger I started out with, in my LiPo charging thread. It works great, but you have to disassemble the battery down to 6S packs and carefully, carefully plug in the balance leads. I've been lucky plugging/unplugging those teeny tiny JST-XH connectors, but I'm living on borrowed time before I break one and cry in my beer. Maybe it's time to accelerate my "battery box redesign project" to fix that problem. (And hopefully earn some cred among the E-S illuminati. )

Re: bulk chargers - I'm way overdue to pitch some cash at cell_man. He treated me very well when i was a n00b and his products are said to be quality. I'll take a shot at one of his chargers and see if that will get me back on the road.

 

[veloman]

Yeah, he said his new chargers are a better quality than the old.

I had a laptop supply start smoking last night, while charging my 7s headway pack.....

 

[jkbrigman]

Yeah, he said his new chargers are a better quality than the old. I had a laptop supply start smoking last night, while charging my 7s headway pack.....

Whoa. I've never seen that. Is it no-name or brand name?

 

[Kinni420]

JKB is just lazy and wont charge each battery individually . Id swear he has a iCharger somewhere.

Ive got 300 cycles on a iCharger 106B+ running off a modded 400w computer power supply with zero problems. just takes 4 hours to charge 6 batteries when balancing @ 1c (every----single----cycle)

You think he has problems? I blew my controller today, 3 of 6 fets after trying to diagnose what I thought was a hall problem. Link to my post below if you have any thoughts or suggestions

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36799

navigate to the last page

 

[jkbrigman]

JKB is just lazy and wont charge each battery individually . Id swear he has a iCharger somewhere.

Ive got 300 cycles on a iCharger 106B+ running off a modded 400w computer power supply with zero problems. just takes 4 hours to charge 6 batteries when balancing @ 1c (every----single----cycle)

I'll take that spankin'. I'll quit whining and make those parallel balancing boards I've been thinking about so I can come live the high life, balancing every time.

GOOD LUCK with the controller/motor problems! You're pushing the technology to it's limits, and that's studly! Kick ass Kinni!

JKB

 

[neptronix]

Nooooooooo! That 400w charger is junk, get a hyperion 1420i!

( and remember me and the cheap 1000W 24v power supplies while you're at it :lol: )

 

[neptronix]

You can reverse that order with HK if it's not too late..

http://www.amazon.com/Hyperion-EOS-1420i-Net3-Charger/dp/B004E7MQ3Y

Dude, $109 shipped for a legit 550w 14S charger.. one that comes calibrated and doesn't die in a few months...

 

[jkbrigman]

On May 30, I ordered two 73V 4A chargers from cell_man. Today is June 11 and the tracking number says the order is still in China but has been "Accepted". It's two weeks later and looks like this is going to go a long, long time. This is a serious problem, since it means the Phat Bike will be down until I restore the ability to charge the battery. So I've ordered a beefy power supply and a Hyperion charger. I'm expecting to see those items this week.

JKB

 

[pendragon8000]

i blew up a bc168 the other day trying to run 4 with amps restricted all off of 1 pc psu..
i beleive the pulsing of power that they do cause a massive voltage drop and the charger couldn't hack it so a capacitor went then a chip or 2 went.
anyway, hopefully the other three will work properly when i get my 4 x 350watt psu's and then ill just replace the burnt one.

bc168 and bulk charger are a good combo if you can remember to break the series plug.

 

[neptronix]

Well, the BC168 is rather overrated. The wires on your balance leads aren't thick enough to transfer all that current in the first place. Most RC chargers transfer no more than about 1A on those lines. We're talking about 22-30 gauge wire here.

 

[veloman]

Chinese tracking info barely means anything. It could show up at your door on Monday.

 

[jkbrigman]

OK, the LTX chargers showed up today, about 3 weeks and two days after ordering. (the wait was painful, but eh...what you gonna do?) Paul packed them well, they arrived nice, new and undamaged! All I had to do was switch the input from 220 to 110 and move the Anderson connectors on the output to match my cable.

View attachment 1

The LTX chargers look good and are a promising alternative. Yes, they are 1/2 the charge rate of the BMSbattery chargers, but they are far quieter,
less than half the size and lighter. If they are durable, going with them will be a big win. They warm up early in the charge cycle but cool off quickly. (They never get as hot as the BMSbattery chargers and they cool off nicely. The BMSbattery chargers never cooled off during the charge cycle.)

The LTX chargers are small enough to carry in a pannier and not take up the whole pannier, where the others were twice the volume of these and heavy to carry in a pannier.

Also, thanks to Neptronix: I bought his HP supplies and paired them with a Hyperion 14S bulk charger. My eyes are now opened and I "see the light" - balance charging down to the 1/100th of a volt!!!



Neptronix' supplies and the Hyperion arrived quickly: I had both of them within 3 days after I ordered, one from Neps and one from Amazon. Lesson there is: maintain balance charging capability so if you lose a charger, you can replace it "fairly quickly" by ordering regular power supplies and an R/C charger shipped from inside the US.

Balance charging got the bike operational again, but not without a lot of trouble. R/C batteries in a canvas bag do not a battery system make. Charging is a massive pain in the ass....

Now it's four chargers total: two bulk chargers (that are small enough to carry on the bike) and two R/C chargers (complicated, heavy and bulky to carry but plenty fine at home).

The bike could function with the balance chargers, but with the bulk chargers, i can now commute with the batteries and the FalconEV battery bag. Next up: a new battery box. I want to be able to balance charge as easily and quickly as I bulk charge. Will provide a "500 mile report" to the forums soon on the Hyperion and LTX chargers!

 

[jkbrigman]

Recall:

3) BAD NEWS: THE HS3540 MOTOR WHEEL IS DOWN FOR REPAIRS.

I rebuilt the HS3540 with Sapims. Took it in to the LBS to have my work finished and checked. Got the wheel back and it looks great. The Phat Bike is ready for a respin. Everything is coming back together: chargers, parts needed, broken motor wheel getting fixed, etc.

JKB

 

[Kinni420]

GO JKB! about time!

 

[Kinni420]

Hows that Phat ride coming along? Must be working good since we havent seen a new post in a while? Or is something not good?

 

[jkbrigman]

Hows that Phat ride coming along? Must be working good since we havent seen a new post in a while? Or is something not good?

I've got a few goodies to tell - mostly boring stuff. I have some ambitious things I'm working on, but I need to get closer-to-done on those, then I'll lay out some good info. But I can tell you these things....

1) The Hyperion charger backed by Neptronix dual-HP power supplies KICKS ASS. Even though the fans in those power supplies sound like a jet plane taking off, you can't argue with the available power. The Hyperion is really...weird...compared to the iCharger, but it's definitely a precision instrument, giving me voltage to three decimal points where the iCharger does it with one place of precision.

View attachment 2

2) I've been using the LTX chargers from cell_man. It's still a little early to tell, but early results are good, very good. They don't get as hot as the ones from BMSbattery. They are smaller and their massive 4 amps of current capability do a fine job. I still haven't cracked it open to tweak the voltage up so I'm only putting 870 Wh (measured with a Kill-A-Watt meter at the AC jack) into a 1200Wh LiPo pack. The plan is to dial it up a volt or two and try to get that 1200 watt-hours I paid for.

So you should be able to tell by now that I'm not gonna get caught without a charger again in the future. THANK YOU cell_man at http://www.emissions-free.com/store/ for great chargers!!

3) hero_004 has been working to get his Razzo on line. His bike is coming together well and will be a cruise missile when he's done - I'm expecting the Razzo to leave the Phat Bike in the DUST!

We've been busy solving the typical problems with an ebike build. First we whipped up a quick LiPo battery harness with 10ga wire. Anderson 30A on one end and 4mm bullet, split, on the other end. His spare power supply was an ultra-wimpy wall wart brick to drive his iCharger. It could supply only a whopping 200mA instead of the rated 800mA the label had on it. (Yes, I said .2A. It took 24 hours to charge 1 Turnigy 5Ah brick)

That just would not do. So we modded an mATX power supply to drive his iCharger. Works like a CHAMP and was easy as pie to do - took about 35 minutes start-to-finish. Hardest part was cutting away all the wires. We used only the CPU power plug wires - they carry +12v at over 10 Amps on this power supply. After we were done, this free little monster with 10A capacity at 12V was providing the 6A the iCharger needed without breaking a sweat. The variable speed fan was barely turning, and the brick was charged in less than 45 minutes. hero_004 was smiling the EV grin even off the bike. That's one charging challenge kicked and sent running!



I'm kicking myself for not doing this sooner. It was easy and I have a few old PC power supplies laying around that are perfect for driving an R/C charger. If you are using a 6S R/C charger for balance-charging LiPo and you have a spare PC power supply knocking around, even an OLD one, you've GOT to convert it to drive the charger.

Here's an excellent HOWTO on instructables.com:
http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Makers-Guide-to-ATX-Power-Supplies/

4) Made it over to Durham, NC on June 15 for the New Belgium Fat Tire "Tour de Fat" Bicycle Festival. If you ever get the chance, YOU MUST GO. Not only is it a great party, all proceeds go toward bicycle advocacy in the local area where the festival is held. See here for dates when a Tour de Fat will be in your area: (http://www.newbelgium.com/events/tour-de-fat.aspx )

The TdeF is fantastic: many $5 pints of great beer, writhing liberal bodies dancing to pulsing music and more bikes than God. ebikers are still "spies in a foreign land" - I saw only one bike-like vehicle with electric assist - but still, these are our kindred folks and I wanted to spend a Saturday afternoon partying with 'em.

While there, I got to see and ride a "Bullitt" Bakfiets-style cargo bike. I fell in love with it, but riding one is an acquired taste - they turn like a canoe, not like a bicycle at all. But the vast cargo area up front would be perfect for an across-america bike tour and about 40Wh of LiPo laid down flat in the floor of the cargo area! What a dee-licious rangemaster that would make!



5) Oh, and by the way: the Phat Bike carried me 20 miles at WOT through 20 miles of "the worst downpour ever" and survived to tell about it. After letting the bike dry out, the only damage is the rust inside the chainring nuts. The motor, CA, controller and batteries (in the FalconEV bag) got through it just fine. I probably should write up what it was like to ride 20 miles in "the worst downpour ever" but I don't have any photos, so as Hyena says: "pics or it didn't happen!"

Gasoline has gone back up in price here in central NC, southeast USA. After bottoming out at about $3.23 way back in late May/early June, gas is now back up to $3.59/gallon and I'm (as usual) massively pissed off. I'm so freaking TIRED of being an ATM for the gas companies.

I know our European brothers and sisters chuckle when I complain about such a relatively cheap price for petrol, and I don't blame them. What's killing me are the price fluctuations. It's possible to buy at "the wrong time" and end up paying a few bucks more than if you had waited 24 hours. I've seen the price swing as much as two bucks over the cost of a tankful within an hour. That kind of uncertainty of price drives me nuts.

I've had the Phat Bike out on a few grocery, food and errand runs (and a 20 mile test run) and it feels mighty good to ride by the gas station realizing I'd never need to stop as long as I'm on that ebike....

What next?
- Many Lumens about to return to the Phat Bike. Will motorists look away in fear?!?!
- Balance charging the Phat Bike sucks. Can it be improved?
- Moving the controller from the rear rack to the seat tube. Is it just a change of position...or much more?!?!
- Return of the Crystalyte HS: the Sapim spokes look awesome and the HS3540 is back better than ever.
- Testing a new tire, the new version of the Bontrager "Hemisphere". Can it compete with the Schwalbe Marathon?!?! Stay tuned!
- There's still a windshield question left unanswered. Will it finally be put to rest?!?!

 

[jkbrigman]

The original ebay light, as it came from the vendor:


The light came without a backplate. It was just two wires coming off the little PCB inside for the LED's, running through a giant hole in a round heat sink and coming out the back. It's a supa-badd light: rated 800 lumens, somewhere around 10 watts of input power.

Work did it's best to interfere, but I finally fashioned a backplate and installed it onto the light, with a power switch and 5mm/2.2mm plug and jack. Heat shrinked the new power cable and connector and put it in split plastic wire tubing. Tied the tubing to the handlebar stem with a black wire tie.


I love this headlight. Conventional bicycle headlights run and hide compared to this. SOME headlight is better than NO headlight, but this headlight is worth the cost and trouble to get it right and on the bike. Extensive road testing has clearly demonstrated that 800 lumens of goodness on the ebike makes motorists pay more attention when the Phat Bike cometh. They definitely Respect the Phat when the massive headlight is on!

 

[jkbrigman]

Choosing to mess with LiPo late at night while tired isn't a good idea. Plug the wrong connector into the wrong place and you get this:
View attachment 3

After waiting the required penalty time, some new JST-XH headers and connectors arrived from the Sacred Lands of China. I opened the pack, pulled out a little strip of pins and the connector shell and tried my hand at snipping and re-adding a connector to only one wire. I chose the one that blew completely off the connector - it's metal part was completely vaporized...
View attachment 2

After a week of doing one wire a day (about 2 hours total time), the new connector looks...just like the old one. 8) Now it's time to test:
View attachment 1

Success! The balance charger likes the repair, and for the first time in two weeks, that brick gets a nice balance charge. Here's the connector with the fancy "shell" installed: 8)


Finally: all 15Ah of LiPo have returned to Phat!