Proper designation for 85 or 90 kWh TESLA module cells?

RootedSuperuser

RootedSuperuser

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What are the proper destinations for TESLA cells form the 85 or 90 kWk pods? I'd really like to know what I'm dealing with here.
What is the proper designation for the TESLA (NCR?)18650(?) battery form the 85kwh pod?
What is the proper designation for the TESLA (NCR?)18650(?) battery from the 90kWh pod?

From my understanding, the biggest difference is the 2000 cycle lifespan v/s the 500 in the Panasonic/Sanyo varieties.
This aside....
The next difference's are the mAh differences in the 2 cells:
The cells from the 85kWk pod modules are (+/-) 3400mAh.
The cells from the 90kWh pod modules are (+/-) 3500mAh.

The Panasonic/Sanyo designations are:
Panasonic NCR18650B @ 3400mAh, 5 amp continuous.
Sanyo NCR18650GA @ 3500mAh, 10 amp continuous.

Am I to assume that the suffix's ('B' 'GA') get tagged to the TESLA cell destination?
I really don't know how to classify the things..............
Huge-001.gif~original
 
The Tesla packs do not use either of those "B" or "GA" cells.
If you research a lot more , you may get a better idea of the true capacity of the Tesla cells and their similarities to the domestic Panasonic cells. :wink:
 
Hillhater said:
The Tesla packs do not use either of those "B" or "GA" cells.
Nooo .... Really?!

If you research a lot more , you may get a better idea of the true capacity of the Tesla cells and their similarities to the domestic Panasonic cells. :wink:
Annnnd you don't know how to properly classify or designate the 2 different cells either.
Click to expand...

Every manufacturer has a item code, I suppose that would be the correct way to classify the 2 different cells, but no one has that as far as my digging as gone.
I suppose for now, they could be classified as a TESLA 90D Cell, and, Tesla 85 Cell?!
Would that seem correct?
 
Hillhater said:
What makes you think there is any difference between the cells in the 85 and the 90 packs ?
I assume you are aware that these cells are custom made for Tesla to their own spec ?
Click to expand...

AYKM?!
"If you research a lot more , you may get a better idea of the true capacity of the Tesla cells"
Follow your own suggestion before posting such nonsense.....
Seriously dude, even a 4th grader can do the math......
 
Telsa uses NCA chemisty cells. More energy dense, but less amp rating than the NMC.
I believe the 2000 cycle has nothing to do with the chemistry type (NCA actually have less cycle life than NMC), but rather because of a great intelligent battery management system that doesn't push the cell too hard or to voltage extremes, and tha fact that the Tesla battery use a monstruous amount of cells in parrallel (7104 cells in the tesla battery!).

I'm not the expert though. I mean yeah, that's just, like, my opinion man.

Matador
 
Matador said:
Telsa uses NCA chemisty cells. More energy dense, but less amp rating than the NMC.
I believe the 2000 cycle has nothing to do with the chemistry type (NCA actually have less cycle life than NMC), but rather because of a great intelligent battery management system that doesn't push the cell too hard or to voltage extremes, and tha fact that the Tesla battery use a montrous amount of calls in parrallel (7104 cells in the tesla battery!).
I'm not the expert though. I mean yeah, that's just, like, my opinion man.
Matador
Click to expand...

So.....
The cells from the 2016 TESLA 90D, have a 90kWh pod, each pod contains 16 modules, each modules has 444 cells, I'm classifying them as the 'TESLA 3500NMC' cells.
The cells from the 2014-15 TESLA S have an 85kWh pod, each pod contains 16 modules, each modules has 444 cells, I'm classifying them as the 'TESLA 3350NMC' cells.

It would be nice to have the actual manufacturer part number, it would clarify the different cells that are used in the 85/90 kWk pods.
Yes, there is a difference between the cells in the 85 and 90 kWh pods Hillhater, its math and fact TESLA actually clarifies the difference, but does not disclose the part number/classification/whatever you want to call it.
 
The 7104 cell count is from a 85 kWh pack teardown.
A similar teardown of a "100D" pack confirmed a cell count of 8256
...( i can find no confirmed cell count for the 90D pack ?)
..using 4 grade maths to "guesstimate" the cell capacity........
An "85" cell is 11.96 Wh
And a "100" cell is 12.11 Wh
....which would suggest a 1.3% increase in cell capacity.....or 0.05 Ah, ...or an increase from 3.2Ah to 3.25Ah ?
Certainly they probably are an improved cell , but their capacity would not appear dramatically different.
Do you believe the "90D" pack was using a completely different cell ?
Why would you classify any of them as a 3350 mAh cell...when.none of the actual tests show that. ?
 
RootedSuperuser said:
AND .... WHERE did I mention 100D?!
STAY ON TOPIC!
Click to expand...
The 100D pack is relavent because its the only one beyond the 85 that the true cell count in known....not just assumed.
Then follow the 4th grade maths, and the known (test verified ) capacity of the "85" cells, to see the cell capacities are likely very similar.
All previous Tesla packs..have had a different number of cells.
...unless Tesla are not being honest with their rated pack capacities ?
 
Hillhater has right in one thing, that this topic was discussed in detail in the past.The most reliable conclusions, supported by measurement are:

1) Tesla cells used in 85kWh pack have almost idnetical parameters as industrial Panasonic NCR18650BE. That means 3200mAh typical capacity and 11,4Wh typical energy (11,6Wh in ideal laboratory case at 4,2V charging voltage). There are 7104 cells in this pack and so the total capacity of 85kWh pack is only about 82kWh. (Yes, It was proven that this was Tesla's skeleton in the cupboard).

2) The 90kWh pack uses new cells which parameters are very close to industrial Sanyo NCR18650GA with 3450mAh of typical capacity and 12,4Wh of typical energy. (12,6Wh in ideal case at 4,2V charging voltage). There are also 7104 cells in this pack and so the total capacity of 90kWh pack is about 88kWh. (but unlike the 85kWh pack the 90kWh one can really discharge 90kWh under ideal laboratory conditions).

3) The 100kWh pack uses the same cells as 90kWh version, but with modified modules with 8256 total amount of cells. That means that total capacity is little more than 102kWh in real use conditions. So this one together with the new 70kWh pack are the only one which do not need an asterix.
 
What about the talk that tesla has a lot of modifications done to their cell?
I have both red and seen videos about this when tesla representatives talk about their cell being tailored for the application.
Do we know of any information regarding these supposed differences. Is this marketing by tesla or are there actually big differences?
 
Wheazel said:
What about the talk that tesla has a lot of modifications done to their cell?
I have both red and seen videos about this when tesla representatives talk about their cell being tailored for the application.
Do we know of any information regarding these supposed differences. Is this marketing by tesla or are there actually big differences?
Click to expand...

For me the most reliable conclusion for this question is that NCR18650BE and NCR18650GA already have this Tesla modifications incorporated. So NCR18650BE cells are most probably original Tesla cells wrapped into the industrial standard shrinking tube.
 
Wheazel said:
What about the talk that tesla has a lot of modifications done to their cell?
I have both red and seen videos about this when tesla representatives talk about their cell being tailored for the application.
Do we know of any information regarding these supposed differences. Is this marketing by tesla or are there actually big differences?
Click to expand...

Afaik they lack the warpping and some security details (CID?) and their top/bottom design might differ from the Panasonic Standard cells
.
Different chemistry?

Hard to belive for me that Tesla with no experience in battery cell production has found a way to make a better cell chemistry than Panasonic itself, which are the experts in their own technological field with many years of experience and R&D.

Main reason for modifiation would be reduced cost per cell and modifications that improve cost of large battery pack designs.
 
Tesla have never made their own cells and even the new G'factory 21700 cell production facility is all a panasonic spec operation.
They had a large contract with Panasonic for 2 billion cells for the bulk od their cars and power packs etc, but they have also had supplies from Samsung and LG at times.
 
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