Recommend a more reliable commute setup than this?

C

cdevidal

10 mW
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
28
I'll be commuting 7 miles each way, about 4 days a week, 48 weeks a year for around 2688 miles/year. The commute is mostly flat (a few places with slight grade). There are approximately seven traffic lights. I will likely run it wide open throttle with some pedal assist, to get to work as quickly as possible. I would like to keep the unassisted speed legal at close to 20mph. For a typical commute I will carry about 382 pounds GROSS (heavy me, :D heavy bike, motor, battery, clothes, lunch, laptop, books, etc.), but if I throw on a trailer I may take as many as 612 pounds. The bike has 3 inch wide 24" balloon tires, which I've been told are surprisingly efficient.

I want a combo that will last several years, so I'm seeking to maximize reliability for the money. I'd like to keep it around $1000 but if I need to go more, I will.

I've been considering this type of setup. Please tell me if there are inexpensive upgrades I should make to extend reliability; for example, a better controller or wiring connectors.
* E-BikeKit.com 24" 500W 36V front direct drive kit with standard 20A controller and brushless motor $407 + $24 shipping
* Ping 36V 20AH V2.5 LiFePO4 Battery Pack $470 + $109 shipping

I expect to have 96 recharge cycles per year on this battery. I estimate it'll run at 0.694C.

This will be quite the upgrade from my piece of junk SLA kit I had twelve years ago! Don't get me started on that one. So many problems! :mrgreen:

Reminder, my load measurements are GROSS weight. Bike and motor included. Everything.
 
Welcome to the forum.

That motor would be good for about 300 pounds near 20mph and 100% reliability. you might get away with 382lbs on occasion. but 600+ lbs its just not going to work out for you.

What you're likely going to need is a higher wind, higher voltage setup for normal comuting, and a second helper motor on your trailer. That motor listed is a Nine continents 9X7. I'd recomend something more like the 8X8 or 7X9 running at 48 volts.
 
Oh nevermind, I mis-read your post, and I was thinking of ebikes.ca's offerings.

Where might I find said motor/wheel combos?
 
Maybe ebikes.ca can do a custom wheel for a decent price. I'll ask.
 
the EBK direct drive is no longer 9C.. it's another make.. ( not that it matters. but figured i'd mention it ) ..

yeah.. you should go with a 48v kit and i'd suggest having the wheel built with sapim spokes on a heavy duty rim as well.. the standard ebike kit ( any of them ) will likely not like that much weight over the long haul.
 
Hey Ypedal, I saw your rant page and loved it :mrgreen:

Where do you recommend I get this kit? I just fired off a quote request to ebikes.ca.
 
Welcome to the forum! :D

You want that kind of towing power, you need to think of it like a truck, if you got a weak little 4 banger '72 Datsun and tried to pull a 30ft boat, it wouldn't work much better (if at all)

Rather than trying to keep cost to a minimum, first look into the power required to do the work you need, and I would suggest at minimum a med to high quality battery of 48V 20AH, since you're not going up hills much, that is a huge help, but to start and stop in traffic with any kind of weight, unless you're willing to start with pedaling yourself, you're looking at a good sized Direct Drive hub motor, and since you need a 24 inch, (assuming you're in North America?) a good choice would be Ebikes.ca, Cycle9 or Golden Motor Canada.

I'm sure that Justin at Ebikes.ca could get you a 24in wheel motor even if he doesn't have them listed and ready to go as kits at the moment, and I HIGHLY recommend you get one of his Cycle Analysts! I went cheap on that component for years and ended up spending as much or more trying to get a Motor Cross Motorcycle computer and a cheap watt meter to do the same job, but it's just not worth the hassle, Justin's CA is worth it's weight especially for a serious commuter set-up where you need a nice large screen that you can read in the dark.

If his motor kits aren't what you are looking for, I'd check out this company too or try and see if you have a local Golden Motor dealer closer to you here:

http://www.goldenmotor.com/

You will find a decent kit that has a 24in wheel already laced here: (I'm sure you can get just the throttle and motor minus their controller too for less)

http://www.goldenmotor.ca/shopping/pgm-more_information.php?id=176&=SID#MOREINFO

I have found the Golden Motor Canada dealer to very helpful, I have a local GM dealer in an adjacent state, only 30 miles from me (I live in Oregon), but they just were not as knowledgeable and helpful as the guy in Canada (he just recently posted on ES too, really helpful guy!)

I would however also strongly recommend what ever you buy, to get just the motor, and then a controller from Lyen with a CA direct plug-in adapter, and you won't even need a spedo magnet! The CA gets the speed of the wheel right from the controller.

Here is a link to a 12 FET Lyen's new never used in the for sale section: (You can buy one directly from Lyen too, just look for his post of his 12 FET controller, don't scrimp on the controller, trust me, better to have more than you think you need)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32790

All of this plus the battery that makes the most sense for you, LiPo is my recommendation, and there is a plug and play version, but you can do it for about $1500 all told and just add your own bike. Of course this is assuming you have wire, connectors, soldering iron (just for minor changes of batter plug wires nothing major) all you will need to build is a basic wiring harness for the battery going to the motor harness, and don't forget some form of Torque arm!

Rear wheel is also the best choice, IMHO if you're going Hub motor, more strength and better handling with a heavy load like you are describing.

If you really want something light and efficient, check out mine or other's mid-drive set-ups too! More complex to install, but I use about 1/3 the amount of battery to do the same things I used to do with a hub motor. 8)

(Look under the "non-hub motor drive" section or the link in my sig to see my build if you like)
 
LI-ghtcycle, the smoke you see is my brain being overloaded with good, new information. I'd seen the golden motors site a few years ago and forgotten all about it.

There was another mid-drive website that I can no longer find which had some very nice looking setups, but if I recall they were quite expensive. What are some good mid-drive websites?
 
Actually, a decent approach might be this. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31146

Then run it on 48v 15 ah ping. This is what I use on my cargo bike. The downsides, well, you'll have to get it relaced to 24" for starters. And it really is a slower motor, good for hauling weight, but it's asolute top speed will be 20 mph, loaded down good, as slow as 18 mph even on the flat.

But it will be a good reliable setup, very unlikely to burn the motor, even when hauling that trailer. It could be run on a different voltage controller to use a 60v battery, if 18 mph was too slow.

You are btw, asking a whole lot from that small budget. Since you will spend a lot on a decent lifepo4 battery, you might need to add about $200 more. Especially needing 24", that's likely to have you getting a custom lace job.

The stokemonkey is the standard for cargo hauling bikes. But $1300, plus battery is often over budget for folks.

Backing up a bit, if you don't include the extra 300 pound trailer, your original plan is quite good. It's a good kit, and in that size wheel you should have plenty of power for your weight on flat terrain. Iv'e put thousands of miles on that same battery and similar or same motors. You chose the right size battery to last a long time with no need to charge at work. Don't donwsize the battery smaller than 15 ah though.
 
dogman said:
Actually, a decent approach might be this. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31146

Then run it on 48v 15 ah ping. This is what I use on my cargo bike. The downsides, well, you'll have to get it relaced to 24" for starters. And it really is a slower motor, good for hauling weight, but it's asolute top speed will be 20 mph, loaded down good, as slow as 18 mph even on the flat.

But it will be a good reliable setup, very unlikely to burn the motor, even when hauling that trailer. It could be run on a different voltage controller to use a 60v battery, if 18 mph was too slow.
Click to expand...

So I'd buy straight from that board member, the one named methods?


dogman said:
You are btw, asking a whole lot from that small budget. Since you will spend a lot on a decent lifepo4 battery, you might need to add about $200 more. Especially needing 24", that's likely to have you getting a custom lace job.
Click to expand...

JVBike.com can lace up a 24" 9C on doublewalled rims and Sapim spokes for $527.27 (or less) including shipping. That makes my total $1106.27 with the battery. Still pretty good. I just don't know if I can get a "wife kit" 2810R or 2810F from them. Will ask if I go that route.


dogman said:
Backing up a bit, if you don't include the extra 300 pound trailer, your original plan is quite good. It's a good kit, and in that size wheel you should have plenty of power for your weight on flat terrain. Iv'e put thousands of miles on that same battery and similar or same motors. You chose the right size battery to last a long time with no need to charge at work. Don't donwsize the battery smaller than 15 ah though.
Click to expand...

I thought so. I based my decisions off your posts, so... :mrgreen:

Maybe I just leave off the trailer for now. It's optional as of today. And in the future, look into a pusher trailer.
 
Here's the chain drive website I was referring to: Cyclone-USA.com They have a 500W kit for $495 before shipping. I like this option because my bike has nice looking rims and I wasn't sure if the balloon tires would fit on a replacement rim without going custom. LI-ghtcycle seems to think that mid-drive uses less battery, so there's another plus.
 
Your over thinking this guys. Get a 48v20ah ping. Get what ever kit you can find with a 24" hub. Most places have it. I'd say ebikekit is great, for slightly more ebikes.ca is great AND comes with a cycle analyst which is worth every penny.

With either of those kits you'll be extremely satisfied. I have 10,000 miles on my kit which is pretty much the one described above. Just make sure you figure out what you're going to do with the 20lb battery. It's not small.
 
Cyclone is great, but you have a lot of chain maintenance issues like keeping the chain line straight and wear on the gears.
At high voltage you will eventually have planetary gear problems (I did)...
 
cdevidal said:
Change in direction:
Cyclone 500W $495 before shipping (which is $30?)
Pros:
* Keep the nice rims and balloon tires
* Under $1000
* Uses less battery? According to LI-ghtcycle.

Cons:
?
Click to expand...
I dont think those cyclone kits rank very high in the reliability stakes that you were asking about originally.
Search this site for others experience on this.
..and they are noisy. !
 
Hillhater said:
I dont think those cyclone kits rank very high in the reliability stakes that you were asking about originally.
Search this site for others experience on this.
..and they are noisy. !
Click to expand...

O. Bummer. Yep that's very important. I'm reading reviews now but haven't yet encountered one discussing reliability issues. They do seem more fidgety.
 
wineboyrider said:
Cyclone is great, but you have a lot of chain maintenance issues like keeping the chain line straight and wear on the gears.
At high voltage you will eventually have planetary gear problems (I did)...
Click to expand...

OK scratch that then. I want long-term reliability.
 
After recomending those motors, i couldn't find a retailer who has any currently, though dogman already recomended Methods who retails the 5X12, which would work. As an alternitive, you might look into the HS3540 from Ebikekits, which is a heavier duty motor. its rear motor only, but at your weight range and with a trailer you'll want a rear motor

mid drive or BB type motors that use chains can handle the extra weight if you chose the right gear combinations, but if you plan on relying on the bike for day to day use, they won't be as reliable or as low maintance.

Something else to consider, your 3 inch tire, if stock, probably is on a 45 to 55mm wide rim. A motor kit is going to likely have a maximum of a 29mm rim, and that wouldn't be safe to mount a 3" tire on. you're going to need to have either your current rim or one like it laced onto the motor. But that does give an oppertunity to have it laced with high grade 13g spokes instead of the softer ones usualy found with these kits.
 
You need to go as light as possible. Since your commute is only 7 miles here is what I recommend:

ebike kit + 36V 10AH Allcell pack. The battery weighs only 5 lbs.

Here is where you can buy the lighter Allcell pack http://www.chicagoelectricbicycles.com/batteries


36vbat.jpg
 
Jason27 said:
You need to go as light as possible. Since your commute is only 7 miles here is what I recommend:

ebike kit + 36V 10AH Allcell pack. The battery weighs only 5 lbs.

Here is where you can buy the lighter Allcell pack
Click to expand...

Correct URL:
http://www.chicagoelectricbicycles.com/Batteries.html
 
Drunkskunk said:
As an alternitive, you might look into the HS3540 from Ebikekits, which is a heavier duty motor.
Click to expand...

This one?
http://www.e-bikekit.com/shop/index.php?p=product&id=120&parent=8
 
auraslip said:
Your over thinking this guys. Get a 48v20ah ping. Get what ever kit you can find with a 24" hub. Most places have it. I'd say ebikekit is great, for slightly more ebikes.ca is great AND comes with a cycle analyst which is worth every penny.

With either of those kits you'll be extremely satisfied. I have 10,000 miles on my kit which is pretty much the one described above. Just make sure you figure out what you're going to do with the 20lb battery. It's not small.
Click to expand...

What's your weight, with bike and gear and motor and battery and road flare (Yehuda) and... ?
 
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