Running a red light on vs off the bike

[tuxman]

Hypothetically, if I were to run a red light, should I be on or off the bike?

I should mention, all intersections have cross walks, with push buttons and signals for pedestrians.

I assume it would be treated as a different offense as a pedestrian than as a bicyclist.

Your opinion is appreciated on the matter.

 

[dazium]

Some of the sensors are build into the road, they use something similar to a hall effect. when the car pases over the sensor it trips the light because of all the metal.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/safety-regulatory-devices/question234.htm

i would think that a well placed neodymium magnet at the bottom of the frame might work

 

[GrayKard]

Here's a good thread about getting the light to change so you don't have to wait. Red Light Changer

Here's one of the more interesting posts in that thread.

Holy chit. What does this guy think happens when you put something in the loop of an inductor that increases or decrease the core permability. Does he think when a car sits on top of it that it injects a signal at near the operating frequency? lol Clueless. It's unrelated to the magnets magnetic field, it would work equally well in a relaxed state with no field, it's just being used as high permeability core material for the inductor.

Straight from the inductor article on wikipedia:

" For example, the magnetic flux linking these turns can be increased by coiling the conductor around a material with a high permeability such as iron. This can increase the inductance by 2000 times."


You pick the material with the highest permeability you can find, and you put it as low, and ideally as centered in the loop as possible, though it doesn't make a lot of difference as long as you're inside the loop.

What material has the highest permeability?
Mu-metal.

And using Mu-Metal rather than a magnet (which also has good permeability) avoids having a bunch of things stick to it.
10grams of Mu-Metal can have the same inductive effect as a 200Kg of steel sitting over the sensor.

Your goal is to alter the resonate point of the coil. That's how it knows something is there. Coil some wire up, measure the inductance, slip in a chunk of magnet or a kitchen fork or mu-metal, or whatever the hell you want with permeability, re-measure inductance, it changes, this makes the resonate point change and it knows a car is there. I've done these tests before with my motorcycle, and anyone else here can duplicate it in 10mins. Find a light with no traffic. Set a hard drive magnet in the coil. Watch it change.

To answer your question. I wait a while and then ride across the intersection. I do find that if you can ride along the cut where the wire is buried it will usually trigger the change.

Gary

 

[Miles]

Crikey! It's an offence to cross the road (in US?) unless the signal is in your favour.....?

 

[brisbanebikie]

e-bikes are above the law, so do whatever you like, so long as its safe and nobody gets hurt.

 

[nuevomexicano]

Crikey! It's an offence to cross the road (in US?) unless the signal is in your favour.....?

The original poster didn't say where he lived (US or otherwise). But there are jaywalking laws (for pedestrians) and red light laws (for vehicles...bicycles are viewed as one or the other in different contexts) pretty much everywhere in the US. However, there's a huge disparity in how these laws and ordinances are enforced. If you ride through a red light or don't walk signal on a busy road you're probably causing a real safety hazard and being a public nuisance in a way that will get attention. If its an empty road with no traffic, then no one will likely care.

 

[tuxman]

The original poster didn't say where he lived (US or otherwise).

Sorry! Updated profile! Douglasville, Ga, USA

Cobb County post their fines online, but not Douglas County where I live. Since Cobb Co. is just one county over, it is a good estimate of what Douglas Co. would charge.

They list the fine for pedestrian who ignores the traffic signal at $118.

Looks like I may have a better argument for running the light as a cyclist than as a pedestrian since I can't trigger the light.

How long must I wait before considering the light to be malfunctioning since I can't trip it?

 

[stanz]

Crikey! It's an offence to cross the road (in US?) unless the signal is in your favour.....?

Yes, in my state bikes have to obey ALL traffic regulations while we share the road with cars. We can get a ticket and be forced to pay a fine. We don't get points against our license, just a fine.

It really gets me pissed when I see bikers ignoring the law by running stop signs, traffic lights, or riding on sidewalks. It does nothing but give bikers a bad name. You can't expect respect on the road if you don't give it.

Sorry! Updated profile! Douglasville, Ga, USA

It REALLY helps to know where people are from when responding to threads since the laws are so different around the planet.

 

[nuevomexicano]

...How long must I wait before considering the light to be malfunctioning since I can't trip it?

Usually you're supposed to treat a malfunctioning light like a 4 way stop...that means stop, look, and proceed with caution when the way is clear. How long you have to wait is subjective since lights are timed to different cycles at different intersections. Lights don't immediately change for cars when they pull up to an intersection, so you can't expect that for a bicycle either.

Non-functioning red light bicycle discussion that might interest you:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/367962-Legal-to-run-red-lights-in-California

 

[Miles]

Crikey! It's an offence to cross the road (in US?) unless the signal is in your favour.....?

Yes, in my state bikes have to obey ALL traffic regulations while we share the road with cars. We can get a ticket and be forced to pay a fine. We don't get points against our license, just a fine.

I meant 'cross the road as a pedestrian'.
This was the context:

Hypothetically, if I were to run a red light, should I be on or off the bike?

I should mention, all intersections have cross walks, with push buttons and signals for pedestrians.

I assume it would be treated as a different offense as a pedestrian than as a bicyclist.

In the UK, it is not against the law to walk cross a pedestrian crossing, against the signal.

 

[number1cruncher]

In the District of Columbia you can ride through a red light legally after a stop and the intersection is clear.

In Virginia, this action could get you a ticket if you run into a disgruntled police officer. Most cyclists treat stop lights as 4-ways and get away with it in front of the police here, though. :wink:

 

[docnjoj]

I strongly suspect that if you are walking your bike in a crosswalk you are a pedestrian, ride it and you are a vehicle. Here in Alabama many "hearty walkers", usually women just continue in the crosswalk from the sidewalk without stopping or looking for traffic. That is considered against the law here as pedestrians have to exhibit "due caution" before entering a crosswalk. Once they are in it they have the right of way! Just my two zlotnoys.
otherDoc

 

[stanz]

I meant 'cross the road as a pedestrian'.
This was the context:

Hypothetically, if I were to run a red light, should I be on or off the bike?

I should mention, all intersections have cross walks, with push buttons and signals for pedestrians.

I assume it would be treated as a different offense as a pedestrian than as a bicyclist.

Oops, I Stan corrected.

 

[nuevomexicano]

I meant 'cross the road as a pedestrian'...

Yes, its illegal in all US states for a pedestrian to cross a road if there's a walk signal and it shows red. Its called jaywalking and, depending on varying enforcement, it can get you fined. This doesn't mean that its inherently illegal to cross elsewhere than the cross walked intersection or that pedestrians always give up the right of way to cars.

Many other countries have similar laws, even other parts of the UK. For instance, jaywalking is technically illegal in Northern Ireland, though apparently rarely enforced.

 

[Miles]

Yes, its illegal in all US states for a pedestrian to cross a road if there's a walk signal and it shows red. Its called jaywalking and, depending on varying enforcement, it can get you fined. This doesn't mean that its inherently illegal to cross elsewhere than the cross walked intersection or that pedestrians always give up the right of way to cars.

I always wondered exactly what jaywalking was..

The definition given here is slightly broader:
http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1034

jaywalking

n. walking across a street outside of marked cross-walks, and not at a corner, and/or against a signal light. If there is vehicle traffic or clear markings of a place to cross, this is a traffic misdemeanor subject to fine, and may be (but not conclusively) contributory negligence in the event of injury to the jaywalker by a vehicle.

Well, I'm glad we don't have this offence in England, Wales or Scotland....

 

[REdiculous]

If the problem is that the light doesn't change then go over and push the button. If there's no button it's a judgement call...do you walk across which increases the amount of time you're in the intersection or do you ride through to minimize risk?

There's a single lane bridge not too far from me that doesn't have a button so I know how that can be...wait forever or just go...