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Solar Dog, Antarctic Solar powered rover

Congratulations on undertaking such an epic challenge. My hat goes off to you.

Let me know if you are interested in newer panels, such as these. I know the Australian importer/distributors (which are base in Melbourne), and I can ask is they are interested in helping out.
DuPont Apollo C Series - 142W Thin Film (tandem junction)
DuPont Apollo A Series - 100W Thin Film
Walsin / LJ 185M - 185W Monocrystalline
Walsin / LJ 230P - 230W Polycrystalline

LambertN said:
Power required to move the vehicle at about 20 km/h is roughly 3 kW, with the vehicle shown above.
That seems like quite a lot of power for those speeds. What were the conditions? Since power is so limitted I would be chasing every bit of efficiency you can get from gather the sun to turning the wheels.

BTW, I am in Melbourne.

- Adrian
 
Hey Adrian,

Firstly thank you :D

And yeah the power does seem a little high, but I have made a model based of various research groups and it stacks up after testing here. But we are still planning more testing :p Either way aim for higher and if its lower great :D

And we always need new panels :p These ones are becoming a little outdated :p ~8 years or so :p
The panels look great, would your contact be able to get the panels without the glass and supporting structure?

If you would like to come have a chat, bring along your contact friend and anyone else that is interested you welcome too :D
The group meets up on tuesday nights at a factory in Dandenong where the vehicle is housed.

Cheers,

Nick
 
HI Lambert
Just wondering regards your mppts:
I think the model you have is a later model than the ones I have but still very similar.
I'm wondering if you or any of your colleages would have some expertise with these particular mppts
( i've emailed aerl but no reply)
There is an add on board on the mppt , shown below

addon solardog.jpg

The add on boards on my mppts look different as below

addon2 om1712.jpg

addon om1712.jpg

I'm wondering if the add on boards are specifically for different battery types? does your add on board have a serial number (i think you menionted lead acid batts?)
 
Hey Nick, Sorry for the slow reply. I'll PM you regarding the panels, but I spoke with them yesterday and they were interested in your project. So if you give them a bell, and be nice they much just be nice to you. :D

As for power, do you know where the losses are, rolling resistance, transmission, ... ? I would be interested in the break down. It would also be interested getting any real power consumption data from others in different terrain, if you can track it down.

Anyway best of luck.

- Adrian
 
Hey guys,

Firstly to whatever, I'm pretty sure the MPPT's are battery specific, I will find out for you but I assume the board is for monitering/control more than anything. You can see a dip switch bank just in front of the board, on our MPPT. All we did simply was select the nominal battery voltage on the dip switch bank, and the MPPT did the rest. The LED's will indicate whether power is on/off, and when the battery pack is full. So I assume the addon board simply moniters the battery pack in relation to the dip switch selection.

But I can find out more if you like :D

Now Adrian, The power break down is simply 1) Rolling resistance 2) Aerodynamic Resistance and 3) internal resistance

so for rolling resistance, this is the killer for the vehicle. And when you add the compaction of snow in front of the wheels you get this:

259cscm.jpg


So the calculation is all theoretical based for the amount of power expected from going through ~5cm of Antarctic snow. If you take away that snow, and assume it's ice. The power consumption goes from ~3kW down to 500W. We are erring of the side of caution and assuming that there will be snow overall, and then we can overcompensate :D

Aerodynamic drag + internal resistances we be low due to the low speed we will be travelling at.

If you guys are interested, attached is a paper myself and fellow team members wrote for a up coming conference.

Adrian, if you would like a more thorough break down I would be more than happy to share :D

Cheers,

Nick
 

Attachments

  • Feasibility Study of a Solar Vehicle for a South Pole Exploration.pdf
    403.3 KB · Views: 121
Hey Nick,

Thanks for the article. I made a few notes while reading it, hope you don't mind some feedback.
I wasn't able to find free copies of the main references, so apologies if what I mentioned is covered in those, but your article is fairly brief without much detail so it is hard to tell. I hope this doesn't read as though I am having a go at you, it is not intended that way. Just trying to make sure you have the best chance of success, so I thought I would point out a couple of things.

Here goes:
"Best" Case Assumption
You generally appear to be assuming best case for your calculations: blue sky, no wind, flat, shallow snow etc.
- It would be wise to evaluate things when they are stacked against you. Like overcast, headwind, steep hill, deep snow.
- Or are you plan on just running when the conditions are nice, and hunkering down or avoiding the bad conditions/environments?

Solar Input
- make sure you are realistic on what good, average and bad days might be like
- Ref [4] had some good data on this. ( They also said there MPPTs were not suitable and ditched them, might be good to find out why)
- The way you pivot your panels along the long axis of your vehicle will limit the ability to be perdendicular to the sun, depending on which direction you are travelling.
- Therefore input power will obviously be less than ideal

Second set of Panels
- depending on how you mount these they may limit your ability to tilt the panels
- therefore restricting tracking, or ability to reduce wind loading on the vehicle

Wind
- 5-10m/s wind on the surface appears to be quite common. Ref: page 9 - Table 2
- You can also get really really high winds. So you may need to have some way of ensuring you can survive these. With a lightweight/high surface area vehicle this could be a serious issue.
- Wind can obviously add drag (eating into you power budget), but it will also try to tip the vehicle causing some wheels to sink more in snow. Which may upset your power calcs.

Terrain
- how realistic is an assumption of 5cm. You should plan to be able to plow through the deep stuff
- How steep is it likely to get? You need to make sure your drive train has enough torque/vehicle thrust to not only plow through the snow, but haul your fully laden vehicle up and over obstacles

Sinkage Calculations
- the way your paper is written suggests a lot of assumptions in the variables you have entered. I hope you are not being too optimistic
- Obviously get some real test data off your own in the snow, before you head south.
- And pick the teeth out of your references data, to make sure you can rely on it.

Weight
- I hope your calculations assumed a fully laden vehicle @ 270kg, with supplies etc.
- How heavy is your steel chassis, is it worth considering aluminium to shave weight. Since weight has such a big impact on the power to plow through the snow

Batteries
- I am not familiar with cold weather performance of batteries, but from your post above it sounds like you are aware of the issues.
- Here is a reference from a quick search that includes some SAFT Li-Ion data from the Mars Rover at -60C, with battery capacities at 1/8th the capacity of room temp tests. :shock:
- bottom line you will need to keep the batteries warm, and need to budget some insulation & power for this task.

Heat
- You will probably have to manage heat very well to use waste heat wisely to keep batteries, and human happy
- You may have to allocate some of you power budget to this, depending on which heating strategy you pick. Of just keeping the vehicle happy, or if you are trying to keep the human happy too (along with the condensation issues Xrain already pointed out)

Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. I am sure you are already aware of most of this, so sorry if this is all old news.

Cheers, Adrian
 
Hey Adrian,

It's always better when more people start talking about it because various areas my be overlooked, plus a single person doesn't think of every possible solution.
Thank you for the feedback :D

The paper was well restricted on what we could fit in, the conference guidelines only allowed 6 pages, my thesis on the other hand is up to 58 pages and climbing at the moment :p

But overall the paper did take optimistic and "ideal" conditions into account, as for cloudy, windy, hazardous conditions various scenarios have been thought up.
For cloudy simply drive slower use less power, windy is a concern and we are still trying to figure an ideal panel design to keep the area of panels, but not have a giant rectangle.

Being a light vehicle we will need to bunker down if things get bad.

But at the moment the vehicle is a prototype, simply for first stage of testing to help us understand :D
There's a lot of areas which we will need to look at before an expedition is plausible
- Panel design
-Reliability of the vehicle
-Heat management
-Traction
etc

As for sinkage, the whole idea is simply based of research. So yeah we really need to test this, some friends are going down this summertime to Antarctica are going to do some tests for us. i.e power measurements, sinkage, batteries in cold etc

But the biggest challenge as Xrain in previous post suggested is heat management, how the hell we stay warm along with the batteries, :p we haven't done a lot of reading into this yet, so if anyone reading the forum or your Adrian have experience in this area, please let me know :D

But overall, the vehicle and paper shown so far are based of research, we have a considerable amount of testing to do before anything happens, cause Mother Nature doesn't like playing nice specially if your not ready for her :p

I attached a paper which explains the whole challenge with Antarctica, solar power, and robots.

I won't take much offense if you keep question everything, I by no means know everything about this and when people keep questioning is when you keep on your toes :D
So thank for taking the time :D

Cheers,

Nick
 
No worries, I needed a break from what I have been working on anyway.

I was wondering why the article was so brief. Good to hear it was due to the publication limits, and not your knowledge. Sounds like you are starting to get on on top of most of it. This is a huge challenge you are taking on, and I wish you the best.

thanks for posting the article but you should probably remove the file. I am pretty sure you are allowed to freely copy & share the article for academic purposes, but don't think that extends to to posting them publicly.

Cheers, Adrian.
 
Thanks Adrian, yeah we won't give up till it's done :D

Haha I can imagine with friday afternoon we've all been there haha :p

Cheers,

Nick
 
HI Lambert
I have found out a bit of info on the older style aerl mppt boards ( not easy to find info on them)
The ones I have will need some modifications to work with lithium batteries, assuming the ones you have already have those modifications done ( mainly a resistor value which puts the float voltage and equilising overvoltage quite close together).
You can fine tune the cut off voltage with pot next to the dip switches, and can set max power point to suit the paricular solar cells you have . I'm only learning bit by bit about them, I might do a thread on the mppts when I get up to the stage of puting the solar panel together and actually getting something working, and when I have a good understanding of these boards.
I am on the hunt for another add on board as per my pics previous, one of mine was broken.........damn...unrepairable.....
aerl cant supply old ones.
 
Ahh damn that's a shame, yeah AERL components are quite the rarity now I hear

And yeah the pot was for changing the float value so just a little tweak and we were good to go

If I find any information for you I send it through, and MPPT thread would be good :D
 
Hey guys,

Sorry for the lack of updates to this thread, University is now completed :D and we also had a very successful testing day yesterday down at sandy point in Victoria, AUS.

Plenty of photos and videos will be uploaded soon :D

But in a nut shell we were able to climb 2m hand sand dunes with little effort and go through soft sand where we would sink 1 inch and the vehicle still continued. Power measurements from the day, we around 500 W for us to drive over hard compact sand, 1 - 1.5 kW on the soft sand, pushing up to a maximum of 2.5 kW when we scaled the sand dunes. Only time we couldn't get up a hill of sand was when it was steep enough to lift have of the drive wheels up, effectiviley doubling the torque required from the back two which they couldn't handle.

Overall very successful, vehicle is now back at the workshop ready for breaking down and starting design work for 2nd version :D

I would like to thank Dick Smith Fine Foods, Norden Body Works, Jaycar Electronics and Trelleborg for giving us sponsorship! without them we couldn't keep this project going :D

Cheers,

Nick
 
Hey guys,

Here are the photos of our testing down at Sandy Point, Victoria in Australia. http://www.flickr.com/photos/teamsolardog

The next stage now is to strip the vehicle down and start v2 Solar Dog, with the fixes that everyone has raised here on the forum :D

There is a video on it's way and i'll upload as soon as it's ready.

Also we have been accepted to showcase our vehicle at the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne next March, we will be in a technology tent a new feature at the grandprix next year were Universities and Industry will showcase up and coming technology. So if you get a chance to come down and have a look, it would be well worth it :D

But we need to figure out some funds in order to get us there and pay for the site first :p

Thanks again,

Nick
 
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