Some Dirty Bikes - Videos now in HD

Thanks Nutspecial, yes its a lot of fun with that Bikes in the woods :mrgreen: Topspeed at the time of the video was around 55 km/h on the flat (depending on what gearing ratio we use on the secondary Reduction-Side (219 Chain).
I ordered all sizes of 219 sprokets and we still testing different combinations. At the Moment i use a 12T to 86T, and the Bike-sproket is a 40T. Reduction-Ratio of primary reduction (Belt) is 1:5

Next things on the YT-Bike is to install temp sensor and switch the 12T with a 13T for a better chaintension. Since i welded the lower mountingbracket, i can not adjust the chaintension anymore, and would need something like a Halflink... or 1 more tooth on the driver sproket.
 
Here some Pics of last weekends ride, more hillclimb then ride.
Had to carry the Bike for 1.5 hour on Mountain trails (not made for Bikes...) to reach some nice Downhill-trails on the other end of the mountain.





the bikes did a good job, but at the top of the mountain, it was not possible to ride the bikes, way to slippy on the wet stones.




stick in Dereilleur...



mountain goat:


upgraded the chain-Tensioner a bit more with carbon/Kevlar sheets and epoxy, after it broked on a rock





finaly did the Battery-Box for the 75volt 12.5Ah-Samsung 25R Battery




Connectors water-sealed with shoe-glue (goes on the green Bike with the Geared Hub)
<a href="http://www.fotos-hochladen.net" target="_blank"><img src="http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/20150614193904uwetkb8clx.jpg" border="0"></a>

will do the Geared-hub Bike (green one) with 2 torquearms, one original from Grin, and one of those (new on Ebikes.ca):

look and feels nice and tight!

Controller painted with a thin layer of bitumen-spray, also for the geared hub bike



Belt-Pully after ~1200 km of 2500-3000Watt (designed for 1500W, but was still working nice at the end of his life)


Had to make the adjusting-Rings of the LR-Kit a bit bigger to fit the new Aluminium Jackshaft-housing with the new stainless-steel axle in it
 
This is quite a thread, I didn't think this ebike stuff could get any more fun but it just did.
 
Thanks guys!
here a quick update:

at one point, this was a option for the "BMX"-Bike, but the reduction ratio was way to much.




... next i will try a SRAM 9x casette like this one i did on the other LR-Kit bikes.


Its the cheapest SRAM casette and it dont have the plastic-spacer rings between the Sprokets but metal-spacers, wat looks more stable to me.
Anyway, so far i didnt see one failing because of plasic-spacers, normaly the sprokets bend befor the spacers would fail.

3 new Batterypacks arrived from Paul (EM3ev):
50V 15Ah


50V 12,5Ah / 50V 15Ah / 36V 11Ah


i like the small size of the 36 v 11Ah (the one with the cigarettes on it). That one is for my mothers Bafang bike an will be stored in a small rack-bag.




...Also some new upgrade-parts arrived from Lightning Rods :mrgreen: , no fotos as yet, but coming soon.
 
Here a quick update, have build some new stuff and worked with the new Parts from Mike on my Builds...

lets just say, they work great, i changed a few things in the Reductions of the LR-Kits, and im very happy with the Results.

Here my Post in the LR-Kit-Thread:



Hey folks, i just came back from a ride with some friends.
Its so much fun to ride that powerfull middrife in fall, with all the leafs... spinning all the time when hitting the throttle :)




Nice work on that axle Mike!
i like the step from 12mm to 15mm, that should hold a lot more of force.
Im Also very interessted in the new 40T 219Sproket.

What do you think about a singlespeed setup at 4-5Kw with only two reductions? do you think the Belt with the 25T Pully can handle it? so first reduction would be 1:3.6 and the second reduction would be from the 40T 219 direct to the rear wheel with a big 219 Sproket. Possible?
I want do my next build without pedals...

im asking this because since i changed my reduction on the Small block kit, it seems like it can handle 3000W reliable, nothing streches or flex, no more beltskipping, even at 3000W full power starts... i have the "not so strong"-axle in the jackshaft, and it did not bend for now (after 1500Km driving with the new, lower reduction).
with the lower reduction, i have now 40 Km/h in the slowest gear, and still more than enough torque to climb, wheele, spin etc..
so the last 3 or 4 rides, i only used the bike in this one, slowest gear... only on street i changed a few times the gears, but for the offroad-parts i dont have to switch gears anymore :wink:


Here some fotos of the new Bike, installed a new SRAMX7 dereilleur and Cassette and tested it...









workes great, much power, same as the DH-Bikes... the motor was moving a little bit to the right side after 3000W-start tests. Its the same setup like on my DH-Bike at 75V 30-40Amps. only thing to do now, is to build a third fixation of the Kit on the upper tube of the frame to hold the Jackshaft strong in place.
... and then i will give it away... its a Medium Frame and i would need a large one :roll: but it was much fun to build this bike anyway.

Here are the 25T-Drivers Mike send me some time ago, i used to upgrade all Bikes with 2000W+ with those.


look how big they are
 
First of all, here is what can happen in the fight jeans VS LR-Kit



We had to cut him free from the beast, there was no other way out :D

there are also two new Bikes with the new TC3065 "Crown"-Motors (...means they have 30mm wide Magnets and 65km/h at 72Volt)

one in the standard Crystalyte-Rim, and one custom laced in a 24"DH Rim...


This one i build for a friend, he want the ENO on it, also his bike came with the SRAM X0-Dereilleur wich is now a singlespeed chain tensioner... very decadent :shock:


Bike before build:


after:


I used a 18 Fet Infineon on that one.

Here the other Bike with the 24" Wheel, build with a Scott Gambler DH-Bike


this one have the Kellys-controller (Sinus!) with the Magura-Throttle. Its much quiter than the other one with the Infineon 18Fet
Both have custom made stainless steel dropouts.

the torque of the TC3065 even at 50amp is very dissapointing. No comparison to the TC40 Crowns or a LR-Kit... lower acceleration than a Geared hub (MAC/BMC) with half the amps.
And they have a very bad efficiency when we tested them in the woods at 40-50amp --> almost 1Ah /Km. So im not very impressed by this motor... maybe change them when the new 2000W geared Hubs are avaiable

one more foto of my Bike, i used today


She is a beast, i love her :mrgreen:
 
Hey Folks!
We had some snow this weekend :)

[youtube]8UWTy7EWB8I[/youtube]

Bikes:
2x smallblack LR-Kits on 3000W
1x TC3065 on 4000W (75 Volt 55amp)

...im not a big fan of the new crown (TC3065), even with 55 amp bursts, he dont have this amount of torque you "need" for having fun imo.
Some of the bikes i builded for friends are in daily use for commuting to work. at the moment we are out of 219 sprokets, i hope we get them this week, so we can ride on.
 
sorry pchen92, i was riding today with 2 friends and totally forgot about the no load-watts :( but if that is helpfull, i remember that we all 3 checked our wh/km and they where 34 wh/km up to 39wh/km. The 34wh/km is at 2500-3000W . the 39wh/km is from a bike running 3000W

got some upgrade Prats from Mike




so we did some upgrades in the last days, and also a "regular" service on the drivetrain of a frinds Smallblock kit and a rebuild of a friends Santacruz v10. Think this could be interessting for people having troubles with the Kit (when going higher Powerlevels then its made for).
The Smallblock Kit is rated 1500W, we do 3000-3500W now, and things seems to be stable and reliable now.
Time for a update and sharing some infos and Pics.

Starting at the beginning; i have ordered 5 Smallblock kits from Mike, just when he started offering the Kits. So all the Kits we have, are from the very first badge, think i was buyer number 29 or something. At this time, the axles of the jackshaft was made by softer steel then the axles he sells now. Also i think the mounting sheets are more stable in the newer versions.

one of the first made smallblock-kits

Dirty, but still fully funkctional

The biggest problem when goining higher in amps/watts on the smallblock kit, is the bending force created mostly by the 2nd reduction.
Means that the Jackshaft on the 219Chain-side is pulled toward the crankarm.
This can cause bending of the sheets and your 219 chain will no more be alined. This then can cause a lot of problems like 219 Chain fall ing off or causing premature wearout on the sprockets. it also can effect the Belt side because of the slaggered Jackshaft and so on...

So the most important thing to do, is to mount the Kit as rigid as possible to your bike. The Mounting clamp seems to be ok for 1500W, with 3000W+ you will need much more mounting-power.

Here some example how we did:


on a devinci wilson


on a Santacruz v10 (alu)




and there is an other example on a YT-Bike somewhere on page 1 of this thread...

As you see, we made a mounting-plate for each Bike. This plates connect the Bike with the motor and prevent things from twisting around.
Your goal when seting up a smallblock kit to your bike, should be to make it in the most stable way. This will save you much time and cost repairing it.


foto of a friend soldering his stainless-steel plate together

An other problem you will have with 3000W+ is Belt skipping on the small Motor-Pully. This causes wearout on the motor-pully and belt, that again causes more and more slipping and belts will rip. Replace it with a bigger pully will save you money.
You will lose some of the reduction ratio (originaly first reduction 1:5, we use 1:3.6), but works better for us.

wearout on pully




Belt slipping also can be caused by not having the correct tension on the belt. When you set up the kit, make sure everything is lined up 100% correct, Jackshaft have to be parallel to BB and Motor axle.

To set Belt and jackshaft:
give Belt the right tension with the set screws (right and left side, still parallel!). And now the most important part:
--> tighten the rings on the jackshaft. We take a flat screwdrifer and a little hammer to do this (so you dont have to remove the 90T Belt-pully only to tighten the rings)
Use the set screws only to set the jackshaft proper. The "screw on rings" on the Jackshaft are the "mainly force-holding" parts, preventing your jackshat from getting pulled toward the BB.

Wearout on Belt


Axle:
Mike will offer now 15mm stainless axle, so that will be fine for 3000W.
I still have the "first badge" 12mm steel axle that tend to bend, but no problemos for now, will se what happens at 3500W.

Freewheel at 1st reduction:
We did fill them with grease before, to make them silent, not sure if thats a good idea anymore.
You can still do that on the Freewheel at the BB, for more silence.
We destroied some of the ACS on the Beltside, then welded them. fotos somewhere on page 1 i think.
for us its the way to go with felding the FW (freewheel) on the 1st reduction, but you will have to pedal through the motor when you "delete" the FW there.

219 Sprockets:
the sprocket on the Jackshaft can wear out fast when using a low tooth count like 12T. I prefer a bigger sprocket, it will last longer, also make your bike even more silent. Downside is the lost of reduction ratio, more speed, less torque.
For the 219 Sproket on the FW-Crank, we use those extrons made out of kevlar.
I think they run a bit smoother and quiter but have actually no referenz to a alu sprocket.


Reduction ratio of 2nd reduction:
by choosing the 219 Sprockets you set your redction ratio. 12t to 92t is 92:12= 7,6666
so 7,6666 times the torque coming from the Beltside. Thats one of the highest possible reduction ratios, and would create much torque and low speed.
When offroad riding, Torque is often more fun then speed, but without speed, your bike is like a Goat, moving up every hill with 25amp with low speed but high effizient.
We prefer to run the motor at 40 amp with a smaller reduction ratio, so we can have enough torque for the hills and also enough speed (at 75volt)

also less reduction means gets less stress on all the Parts = more reliability

Chainline of the 219 Chain (second reduction):
most important - have to be parallel to the Belt. You can adjust this by the way you build your freewheeling-crankarm.
Every bike i builded with the smallblock kit needed a different spacing to get a good chainline.
You can space on the crankarm or you can space (a little) at the BB.

in the front, those 2 rings, i used to space 1-2.5mm on the BB-shell on one bike. there are still enough threads on the BB-cup to hold it tight.


here we used a spacer-disc made out a sprocket-adapter from sickbikeparts


Chain tension is also important. To set this, dont use the setting screw on the jackshaft. Use the setting screws under the motor. Once set, screw the lower sheets tight.
on this place, we welded the sheets togehter to stop them from moving. this works, but then you cant set chain tension anymore.
Other people drilled a hole through the overlaping lower sheets and put a crew through.

When you cant adjust the chaintension anymore, but want to make a change in the 2nd reduction-ratio, you will have a problem with chain-length.
first we just tried different sprocket-combination until we found a combination that gives the chain a "tight fit".
Later we realized that you just have to find one fitting reduction ratio.

So lets say you have a "tight fit" by using 14T (on Jackshaft) and a 80T sprocket (on Crankarm).
Now you want more reduction (more torque, lower speed) and still tight fit, you have to use a 83T on the Crankarm. So 3 tooth more or less will result in a longer/shorter chain with about the same chaintension.
If you want to make a different setting using a bigger sprocket on the jackshaft - lets say a 15T instead of the 14T - you would need a 81T on the Crankarm, and so on.
This "theory" is not mathematicaly proofen, but seems to work . Hope this will save you some hours trying to find possible combinations

An other way to get a better chain-tension on the 2nd reduction, is by adding a Chain-tensioner.
i builded it from a normal singlespeed-bikechaintensioner.

if your chain is only a little bit loose, this will help.
We had that one case where the chain was quite loose and running to a small 219 sprocket (12T), that + the tensioner caused the 219 Chain to get stiff and wears out the sprockets very fast. not even a good WD40 treatment made a differenz there.

new chain


gefickte chain...


...causes gefickte sprockets...

... so dont forget to set your chainline right and regulary oil your chain with WD40 will last your parts much longer.


FW-crankarm with the HD Freewheel, you need this when going higher power. Cheaper ACS starts to wobble fast when increasing power.


The HD-Freewheel isnt cheap ( 80 USD) but reliable. We tried it with the ACS (25 USD) but they fail at 3000W. there is also a UHD freewheel available now thats even stronger, but the HD does the job at 3000W

ISIS BB (bottom bracket).
this is a very reliable part, doesnt need upgrade

just make sure your BB-treads are cleen when screwing it in. Dont hurt the fine treads by screwing it in inclined... if you allready did, go to a bike-mech they have the cutting tool to fix this :roll: :D

3rd reduction:
the 3rd reduction or "final reduction" is from your FW-Crankarm to you bike-gears. We lazercutted the Crankarm-Plate from 4mm Stainless steel (3mm had be enough...) and used the sprockets with the 5 hole-patern.


they hold up, have no comparison to the original Crankarm.

Crank-Sprocket (Bike chain sprocket):
i like to use a 36T-40T Sprocket on the crankarm, for this size you can also find chain-guards from Downhillbikes. Also smaller sprocket sizes are more easy when you want to adjust your chainline more to the center of the bike (when using the bigger gears). Most Frames have limited space, in some cases its impossible to fit a big sprocket like a 48T.
Some of my friends like to use 44T or 48T, matter of taste...

chain-guards from Downhillbikes:
Bike-chain can drop when juming/landing, since i installed one, no more chaindrop.
Picture somewhere on page 1

Casette:
For the Casette, i use the cheapest sram or shimano, cassette 9 speed, its haevy and solid (the more expensive ones are usually lighter and less strong)
on those cheaper 9speed casettes, the smallest sprocket is usually 11T, biggest is 32-36T.
You will not drive at 3000W on the 11T, its to small, it will brake. I use only the 3 biggest gears, most of the time i use the biggest sprocket (lowest speed, highest torque). So i have setup the bike speed to around 40-45 km/h in the slowest gear, still enough torque for me... for now...


Bike-Chain.
As i use a 9x cassette, i also use the 9x Chain, same principle as the asette --> take the cheapest one ;)
We also tried the 55 USD KMC-Ebkie-chain... the cheap SRAMs and Shimanos are more reliable at 3000W

Hub:
the DT-Swiss is our first choice, it have no pawls but axial ratchet. It can full power starts for long times.
On one Bike i have a Division Hub, thats one with pawls, and it holds 3500W now. On an other Bike, the hub (with pawls) failed at 2500W.
The DT Swiss hub on a friends bike have 4000 km now, looks still like new when we opened it.

Wheel/Tire:
we use a lot tires with this kit, so we like to use cheap DH-Tires second hand from Pro-Riders (at 80% profile they normaly change them)

Screws:
We replaced most of the screws with stainless steel-screws, locktight everything, use nordloch-discs and nylon nuts.


if i have forgot something, pleace write me and i will edit it.
 
Foppel, thanks for posting, that is a lot of info to learn from,
 
Thanks guys

Good Point, yes i have seen a swingarm bending too.
It was on the devinci wilson driving on a high reduction ratio (like 1:30 from 1st and 2nd reduction). We had to replace the "swingarm-pivot-bolt", it was destroyed. Now driving the Bike with a lower reduction ratio and more using the biggest sprockets on the casette, seems to be ok.

The Santacruz V10 is a really nice bike, but doesnt get the full power at the moment. Not exactly sure why, it cuts motorpower at around 2500W.
Maybe something with the CA-settings.

pchen92 which gng version do you have? the one with the Chain on 1st reduction?
 
as i was searching for the fotos of the 25Chain-mod i also have found some older fotos of the -Spezialised Bighit- (the Bike of the last post, i would like to share with you guys.
Here is a short making of the sideplanes of that bike:

Cutting the outer form out of wood


Cutting the inner form, also wood, then wrapped it in alu foil




i heated the plastic-boards with the heat gun, then pressed it with the wood-forms, here the result:


then cutted it and installed it with velcro-straps
 
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