Source for a custom shaped batteries

[psychson]

Hello,

Made an account to get some help from you well informed and talented people.
So, here goes my first post.

I am in the market for custom shaped battery following these dimensions
https://imgur.com/a/J9MZGd7
I figured something like ~80.0mm for max height with a bms on the bottom closer to the side that measures 130mm across.
but, after reaching out to a few sources, I've realized not everyone is willing to respond these days.

Batteryspace.com is one of about 3 companies that responded but is asking $1600 for something like this.(Others fell off)
https://imgur.com/a/otVf7GZ


Here's a brief overview of how that conversation went.
https://imgur.com/a/EThHE6z

I know I can use Sanyo GA cells (vs MJ1 cells) to get the job done for the 14S7P pack with 50A max cont. and 70A peak. I know I won't use higher amps nearly as often as people seem to assume is expected, anyway - the Sanyo 10A cells are on sale but I do not have experience building batteries, or equipment.

I could build this battery for under $400 myself if I knew how.
Is it normal for people to overcharge like this?

help me please!

 

[john61ct]

There is no "overcharging", whatever the market will bear.

Not rocket science nor a big investment to DIY.

Or keep looking, ideally locally, ask around.

 

[goatman]

the good thing for you about not knowing what youre doing is, you bought a Baserunner.

 

[pwd]

A custom shaped battery might make a good case to buy your own materials/equipment.

 

[Balmorhea]

I could build this battery for under $400 myself if I knew how.
Is it normal for people to overcharge like this?

help me please!

If you can't or won't do it yourself, how do you even know whether they're overcharging?

I think if you bought all the parts from trusted suppliers, plus all the supplies and tools necessary to do the job, and paid yourself a decent wage both to learn how to do it and to actually build your pack, and for the time you spend making the sale, setting up for a custom job, packing and shipping... you might find that $400 doesn't come close to a realistic figure. And of course if you're in business, you have overhead, which you're clearly not accounting for. And there's supposed to be the possibility of profit, which you're also not accounting for.

I encourage you to build your own pack. And then ask yourself what you would charge a stranger to make him another one just like it.

 

[john61ct]

And of course the best thing is, you can ensure you actually get what you pay for.

To the extent you succeed in buying your cells from a trusted honest source and get actually new Grade A genuine ones.

Which will usually cost **a lot** more than your usual promise-the-sky roll-of-the-dice seller.

 

[psychson]

I really appreciate the feedback and perspective from you all.
It's great to have finally made an account here.
Much to learn / will update

 

[e-beach]

This may not help you much, but around here, there are a lot us of who make their own stuff. We DIY it whether it works like a commercial e-bike or not. The shape of your battery pack isn't all so different from a rectangular pack, so why the 40mm change? Can you give us a photo of your bike so we can actually see what we can help you with? Keep the file size under 512k for easy upload to ES.

IMO, $1600 for custom battery is ridiculous, however on the other hand I, like many others around here can build a battery pack simply because I have been building custom things for my whole life. And, I am not intimidated by doing the research needed to learn how to build something new, like a battery pack. I, like many around have made mistakes in the process, but life goes on. So, if you feel that $1600 is a rip-off, I agree. I would never pay that much for a small custom battery. 70 cells from Nkon-Ru is like $400. A good tab welder is like $250. 18650 holders and pure nickle strips another $50....maybe.

Show us your bike frame and maybe we can help you find a cheaper way to go.

 

[Erikjan]

I buy my batteries from em3ev.com. The oldest is from 2014 and has Samsung 29E cells that are still working fine.

I see they now charge for a 14s 7p pack between 500 and 630 USD depending on the type of cell.

https://em3ev.com/shop/50v-14s7p-rectangle-battery-pack/


they also make custom packs if you send an email with what you want you will get a price.

 

[Grizzl-E]

I don't mean this in any way aggressively but,

I have a couple cell welders and have built enough custom batteries to say that $100-$200 dollars labour to build a custom 14p 7s is almost insultingly low. Anyone I would trust to make me a custom lithium pack should be charging $500-$1000 a day rate and that's actually the time it's going to take to put that together and properly finish, test and ship it.

If your asking a manufacturer to make something custom, look at it from their perspective. They are already making money. They normally have to charge minimum 2x their cost to cover overhead, warranty, normal operating losses while making enough profit to pay the smart guy that owns the business. For a custom item they have to give it to an engineer skill level employee that is probably overseeing something important. They risk their name and efficient workflow making an untested one off product.

If you can get it for double for your actual cost, i'd say jump on it. That's a pretty great deal. Otherwise there is a lot of support here to get started in building packs. Most of us started because of the same dilemma, but there is a reason everyone charges such high rates for custom builds. My rule now for anything non standard is take my first guess at how long it will take me and triple it. It's almost never wrong. But there is a reason I fix stuff for a living, I don't like the business end of it.

 

[john61ct]

Anyone I would trust to make me a custom lithium pack should be charging $500-$1000 a day rate

Maybe in an earlier-developed country, certainly not most of the world.

 

[psychson]

This may not help you much, but around here, there are a lot us of who make their own stuff. We DIY it whether it works like a commercial e-bike or not. The shape of your battery pack isn't all so different from a rectangular pack, so why the 40mm change? Can you give us a photo of your bike so we can actually see what we can help you with? Keep the file size under 512k for easy upload to ES.

IMO, $1600 for custom battery is ridiculous, however on the other hand I, like many others around here can build a battery pack simply because I have been building custom things for my whole life. And, I am not intimidated by doing the research needed to learn how to build something new, like a battery pack. I, like many around have made mistakes in the process, but life goes on. So, if you feel that $1600 is a rip-off, I agree. I would never pay that much for a small custom battery. 70 cells from Nkon-Ru is like $400. A good tab welder is like $250. 18650 holders and pure nickle strips another $50....maybe.

Show us your bike frame and maybe we can help you find a cheaper way to go.

I decided I will DIY since I'm used to this kind of thing.
(Self-taught homeschooled person lol)
I'm pretty close to getting my head around this subject so why not just do a bit more?

I really want to pay what should be payed! As a freelance artist in NY I find it super important to my own well-being.
(wasn't trying to come off as one of those, "can I speak to the manager?" types)

Secretly, I really would like to hide my prototype project from the forum as I would actually like to find my ideas in the market at a later point to my own benefit.

I don't mean this in any way aggressively but,
I have a couple cell welders and have built enough custom batteries to say that $100-$200 dollars labour to build a custom 14p 7s is almost insultingly low. Anyone I would trust to make me a custom lithium pack should be charging $500-$1000 a day rate and that's actually the time it's going to take to put that together and properly finish, test and ship it.

If your asking a manufacturer to make something custom, look at it from their perspective. They are already making money. They normally have to charge minimum 2x their cost to cover overhead, warranty, normal operating losses while making enough profit to pay the smart guy that owns the business. For a custom item they have to give it to an engineer skill level employee that is probably overseeing something important. They risk their name and efficient workflow making an untested one off product.

If you can get it for double for your actual cost, i'd say jump on it. That's a pretty great deal. Otherwise there is a lot of support here to get started in building packs. Most of us started because of the same dilemma, but there is a reason everyone charges such high rates for custom builds. My rule now for anything non standard is take my first guess at how long it will take me and triple it. It's almost never wrong. But there is a reason I fix stuff for a living, I don't like the business end of it.[/code][/code]

This is the kind of response I was looking for.
My real source of confusion seemed to be the price difference between custom/standardized packs.
Grateful for the sense of direction and understanding.

I buy my batteries from em3ev.com. The oldest is from 2014 and has Samsung 29E cells that are still working fine.

I see they now charge for a 14s 7p pack between 500 and 630 USD depending on the type of cell.

https://em3ev.com/shop/50v-14s7p-rectangle-battery-pack/


they also make custom packs if you send an email with what you want you will get a price.

I got my motor from them and really want to patronize more than one business in this market! Super happy with Cellmans help though!

Anyone I would trust to make me a custom lithium pack should be charging $500-$1000 a day rate

Maybe in an earlier-developed country, certainly not most of the world.

Thank you for the perspective. I see rates are different based on many factors!
I understand why such a reputable company would charge for their craftsmanship.(Among other things)

 

[john61ct]

There is no valid reason to buy from multiple companies.

em3ev.com is the top well-known supplier of battery packs, customer oriented far more than other companies, giving all your business is very much in your interest.

99.99% of the other pack suppliers are horrible, no sense of CS mindset, and mostly lying scammers.

I was not even aware they are willing to do custom packs, good news indeed!

 

[psychson]

There is no valid reason to buy from multiple companies.

em3ev.com is the top well-known supplier of battery packs, customer oriented far more than other companies, giving all your business is very much in your interest.

99.99% of the other pack suppliers are horrible, no sense of CS mindset, and mostly lying scammers.

I was not even aware they are willing to do custom packs, good news indeed!

Thanks John,

I've emailed to see if it isn't too late to add to my order before it ships

 

[psychson]

Just wanted to update this thread.. Em3ev isn't making custom batteries as of right now, so I will probably buy a spot welder and get it on

 

[john61ct]

That's what I thought, too bad

 

[Grizzl-E]

Anyone I would trust to make me a custom lithium pack should be charging $500-$1000 a day rate

Maybe in an earlier-developed country, certainly not most of the world.

Sorry I don't mean to highjack the thread but I hear this sentiment alot and I would like to address it. I'm from Canada so those numbers are 35% higher than US dollars. However I find that it is difficult to find a lower rate worldwide for quality custom work, I speak decent Thai and my sister speaks excellent Mandarin so we have pretty direct access to lower wage labour in less developed countries with strong manufacturing bases. While there are many excellent engineers all over the world, I find that low volume custom work requires some experience in an r+d environment either through school, hobbies or in business. That requires an outlay of funds without an expected return. When it comes to relatively expensive technologies like lithium batteries and ebikes, few countries have high enough disposable incomes personally or in a business environment to support using resources on something that may or may not work and be saleable. I could go on but the fact that not all but most of what comes out of southeast asia is pretty much a copy of something developed by companies and individuals with high r+d budgets supports my point. This is not fair, but from my experience it's often true.

 

[john61ct]

So from a practical POV what are you suggesting?

 

[Grizzl-E]

So from a practical POV what are you suggesting?

It wasn’t really a helpful post, Just an observation. On a useful note, the guys with experience and reasonable prices usually don’t advertise such. They are already making money and usually only take on less profitable work when they are slow.

But if you post an offer of what you are willing to pay and your requirements (I know thats sort of how this thread started), you may get offers from someone willing to work for less than they would quote if asked.

 

[john61ct]

A lot of trust involved

drop-shipping a few grand in cells to a builder without testing them yourself first.

Then the legality of shipping, if they aren't within a few hundred miles of you.

I think learning to DIY really is the way to go.